The Instigator
julianna.rose
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Magic8000
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Parents should be allowed to discipline their child with force! (spanking, etc.)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Magic8000
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/21/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,004 times Debate No: 35850
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

julianna.rose

Pro

I think it's all nonsense that you can not discipline your child the way you want to. Why should a parent not be allowed to smack their child when they are doing something wrong? Now i'm not saying to beat your kid to a pulp, or leave bruises, or welts, or make it so DCF has to be called. But if my kid is doing something wrong, and they don't listen to yelling, why should it be wrong for me to smack them up side the head, or grab them by the ear? After a while of you screaming at your kid, they can block you out, they know how to ignore you, so what do you do then? they won;t listen to you, your at your whits end,you don't know what to do. Don't you think that it grab their ear and pull that, that will grab their attention? I think so.
Magic8000

Con

First, I want to state the obvious. If an alternative to physical harm exists, it's best to go with that. No one would want to harm their child, nor would a parent want to have their child fear them in a harmful way. Thankfully there is alternatives [1http://www.positive-parents.org...] [2 http://www.positiveparentingconnection.net...].


Spanking teaches children to resolve things with violence. A child sees their parent resloving problems with them via a smack, it's clear the child will see this as a viable solution to problems. This has been shown in numerous studies.


A total of 273 boys and girls from diverse backgrounds served as subjects. The findings were consistent with a socialization model in which higher levels of severity in parental punishment practices are associated with higher levels of children's subsequent aggression toward peers. Findings indicated that children who had been spanked evidenced levels of aggression that were higher than those who had not been spanked, and children who had been the objects of violent discipline became the most aggressive of all groups - Cambridge Development and Psychopathology Journal [3 http://journals.cambridge.org... ]


A Canadian study done at the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario of Ottawa, gives evidence that physical discipline harms the developmental growth in children, resulting a lower IQ. [4 http://health.yahoo.net...]. Some evidence also shows physical discipline is connected to criminal assaults. [5 http://pediatrics.aappublications.org...]


The American Academy of Pediatrics has concluded that “The use of physical punishment to discipline children has been linked to a range of mental health problems and is strongly opposed...” and “study authors conclude reducing physical punishment may help decrease the prevalence of mental disorders in the general population.”

- [6 http://www.aap.org...]



Parents shouldn’t be able to use physical discipline on their children. I certainly agree with the Canadian study that surveyed two decades of spanking research, that

"...no study has found physical punishment to have a long-term positive effect, and most studies have found negative effects." [7 http://www.theatlantic.com...]


Back to Pro.

Debate Round No. 1
julianna.rose

Pro

First off, I agree, You should go with an alternative to physical harm if possible, but sometimes it is not. You are right no one wants to hurt there child, why would they? the point of physical punishment is not to hurt the child technically. It is to get their attention, yes pain comes with it, not an excruciating amount but again enough to grab their attention and they will remember what they can look forward to if they do that action again.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, spanking does not teach children to resolve things with violence. When I was a child was spanking, when my father was a child he was spanked (and hit with a belt) and nether one of us are violent. I know plenty of people who have been spanked and had physical disciplined as a child and are far from being violent. No a child raised right, and taught right will understand that a smack upside the head means their doing something very wrong and that, that is not acceptable behavior. This does not mean that, the child will go around thinking that it is ok to be violent and hurt others. If that is what they think then the parents did something wrong.

This paragraph from (http://journals.cambridge.org...) has a point. " and children who had been the objects of violent discipline became the most aggressive of all groups" Of course they are going to be more violent is they had violent discipline they're going to turn out more violent. That is not what my point is at all. I'm not saying you should go out and start beating your kid. I'm saying that yelling at them and telling them to sit in a corner won't always work. It's not wrong to sit there and grab the child's ear if they are dong something wrong. When I say that I'm not saying that when they spill a glass of milk to pull them by the ear. Here's an example, Say my child were to draw on the wall, first time they have ever done it. Alright, I will teach them, explain to them that drawing on the wall is not ok and why. Then I will have them help me clean it up. They do it again, now there is going to be a punishment because you know you are not supposed to draw on the wall. So you will get a time out and clean up the wall. They do it a third time, now your going to get spanked because this is the third time you have done something your not supposed to.

This Canadian study that you show me, I have to laugh at. Spanking my child is not going to cause a lower IQ! and how is criminal assaults related to physical discipline? So every person out there who has caused a criminal assault has been spanked. I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe such non sense! If you beat your child that can cause mental problems, and yes that can lead to violence, but spanking your child can not.

Once again, if I spank my child it WILL NOT cause mental disorders! I'm not beating the kid to a pulp! he's being smacked on the butt a couple of times. No harm can possibly come from that.
Magic8000

Con

Pro agrees if an alternative parenting method is possible, we should use it. However Pro just asserts sometimes resorting to a non physical method isn’t always possible. There’s always an alternative. [1 http://www.positiveparentingconnection.net...] [2 http://www.positiveparentingconnection.net...]

A smack may be a quick fix, but the long term effects aren’t worth it. You can always try an alternative. Pro has yet to prove forceful discipline is superior to the alternatives.

Aggression

Pro tells us she and many people she knows have been disciplined under physical force, yet are not aggressive. However, this is unverifiable. I don’t want to be rude, but Pro could be stating this because of confirmation bias [3 http://skepdic.com...]. It’s simply anecdotal evidence, whereas my evidence isn’t.

Next, Pro commits the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy [4 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...] by quote mining the study. She cherry picks one sentence of it, ignoring the rest. I will quote the entire sentence.

Findings indicated that children who had been spanked evidenced levels of aggression that were higher than those who had not been spanked, and children who had been the objects of violent discipline became the most aggressive of all groups.

The bold text is what Pro choose to quote. Ignoring what was before that. The study said kids who had been spanked and children who were abused are more aggressive. Not that only kids who had been abused were aggressive. The study included those who have been spanked.

My argument still stands.

Intelligence and Spanking

Apologies, my source in round 1 seems to be broken. Here it is [5 http://web.archive.org...]

Pro ignores this one too. She just says she laughed at it and asserted spanking isn't going to lower IQ. This commits two logical fallacies. First, it’s an argument from personal incredulity [6 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...]. If Pro can’t conceive of it being true, that doesn’t make it false. Second, she states spanking will not lower IQ. This is the bare assertion fallacy, since she provides no evidence [7 http://fallacies.findthedata.org...]. Intelligence is lowered because spanking will reduce the brain’s grey matter.

“The recent studies found that spanking reduces the brain’s grey matter in areas related to intelligence.” [8 http://www.abcactionnews.com...]

It can also lower IQ because of the stress it causes.

“...corporal punishment is extremely stressful and can become a chronic stressor for young children, who typically experience corporal punishment three or more times a week. For many it continues for years. The research found that the stress of corporal punishment shows up as an increase in post-traumatic stress symptoms such as being fearful that terrible things are about to happen and being easily startled. These symptoms are associated with lower IQ.” [9 http://www.sciencedaily.com...].

Pro hand waves over this one.

Criminal Activity

Pro commits the Strawman fallacy in this one [10 https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...]. I never claimed everyone is a criminal was spanked. I was saying it was connected. Pro again commits a bare assertion fallacy by claiming spanking your child will not make it more likely for them to develop a mental disorder.

Ultimately, I feel most of Pro’s case are just contradictions, not arguments.

My arguments still stand.

Back to Pro.

Debate Round No. 2
julianna.rose

Pro

julianna.rose forfeited this round.
Magic8000

Con

Unfortunately my opponent has forfeited her last round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Magic8000 4 years ago
Magic8000
Sorry, the number four source is broken.

http://web.archive.org...

That one works
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
julianna.roseMagic8000Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter VB Mr Josh, the arguments weren't that obvious.
Vote Placed by MrJosh 4 years ago
MrJosh
julianna.roseMagic8000Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeit, arguments and sources are obvious.
Vote Placed by THElittleRISK 4 years ago
THElittleRISK
julianna.roseMagic8000Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit