The Instigator
RoyLatham
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
krazzybrandon
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points

Parents should be legally identified and held responsible

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
RoyLatham
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,090 times Debate No: 7577
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (6)

 

RoyLatham

Pro

The full resolution is: "The parents of each child should be identified as a legal requirement and the parents shall be held responsible by the government for the costs of raising the child."

Parents should be held responsible for the care of their children. Unidentified fathers cannot be held responsible. The problem is growing due to the large number of births outside of legal marriage, many with unidentified fathers.

In the US in 2007:

* Number of live births to unmarried women: 1,527,034
* Birth rate for unmarried women: 47.5 births per 1,000 unmarried women aged 15-44 years
* Percent of all births to unmarried women: 36.9
http://www.cdc.gov...

Therefore we need a system by which responsibility can be legally imposed on the parents of a child. A system is proposed to identify parents and hold them responsible.

This has been identified by professional social workers as a significant problem:

"Fathers and paternal relatives are often overlooked or underutilized resources for children involved in the child welfare system, and children themselves suffer the consequences. Focus groups and surveys in New York State identified the lack of timely identification, location, and case plan involvement of fathers as factors that contribute to long foster care stays, lengthy termination of parental rights procedures, and less positive outcomes for children in foster care. Identifying the father early in the case and helping him become involved in his child's life is particularly important." - Identifying Absent Fathers and Paternal Relatives Relatives http://www.childfocuspartners.com...

A system is proposed as follows: When a child is born:

a. Within marriage or outside of marriage, if both parents sign a certificate asserting parenthood, they are deemed the responsible parents. Within marriage existing laws of parental responsibility shall apply. Lesbian couples shall be treated as if married for purposes of parental responsibility if both sign the certificate of parenthood.

b. If the father does not claim parentage, the mother is required by law to name the father or provide to authorities a list of possible fathers. The authorities shall use DNA testing to confirm paternity. If the mother fails to comply, the mother shall be held guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by 60 days in the county jail or a juvenile facility, as appropriate, to be served within two years at a time set by the Courts.

c. If paternity cannot be determined by information provided by the mother, an investigation shall be conducted by authorities to determine paternity. Any man who denies paternity and is subsequently identified, shall be punished by 60 days in the county jail or a juvenile facility, as appropriate.

d. Authorities shall have broad authority upon reasonable suspicion to collect DNA from potential suspects in a paternity investigation. (This is typically done using a mouth swab.)

e. The parents shall be required to provide monetary support for the child until the child is eighteen. A system for attaching wages shall be implemented. The Courts shall be responsible for determining the amounts. Failure to notify authorities of income shall be punishable as a felony.

f. If the child is legally adopted, the financial responsibility of the birth parents ends.

g. If the child receives support from the government, the parents bear a lifetime responsibility to repay that support.

h. In cases of rape or incest, the mother bears no responsibility.

i. If an investigation was required to determine paternity, a fine shall be assessed upon the father.

I probably have not covered all possible contingencies. In some cases those may be covered by existing law, or the proposed system can be reasonably extended to cover them. The resolution stands upon the principle of identification of parents and holding them responsible within the general framework of the proposed plan.

To enforce the moral responsibility for parents to support their children, to reduce the financial burden upon the taxpayer, and to discourage irresponsible parenting, the resolution is affirmed.

[Do not accept this debate if there is a reasonable chance you will forfeit or if you plan to put either arguments or references in the Comments.]
krazzybrandon

Con

I would like to firs rebuttal my opponents case thing negate my own.

I'm going to list to you 4 reasons why this shod not be just.

1) by the criterion of what's happening, the parent may not of encouraged their child to do whatever lawful thing.
2) not all kids listen to their parents
3) If my child dost even live with me why should I accept responsibility
4) I'm not financial stable

with those facts we can easily understand what points some parents are dealing with. I stand today to negate this. EVERY PARENT in this world doesn't need to deal with this. we all make mistakes and we all need a helping hand.

(I wasn't able to type every thing my computer broke this is off of a phone so bear with me please)
Debate Round No. 1
RoyLatham

Pro

In Cons points (1) and (2) he asserts that parents may not have control over their children, and therefore ought not be responsible for the child's actions. The present resolution only holds parents responsible for the cost of support of the children. This is made clear in the opening argument, ".. to enforce the moral responsibility for parents to support their children, to reduce the financial burden upon the taxpayer, and to discourage irresponsible parenting ..." Responsibility for the actions of the child remain as they are under current law. I presume that responsibility falls upon whoever has custody of the child. That might be both children if they share custody, with one parent if one has custody, or with the state if the child is institutionalized.

In the case of a dissolved relationship, the following definition applies: "child support or child maintenance is the ongoing obligation for a periodic payment made directly or indirectly by a non-custodial parent to a custodial parent, caregiver or guardian, or the government, for the care and support of children of a relationship or marriage that has been terminated" http://en.wikipedia.org... The article goes on to state, "The right to child support and the responsibilities of parents to provide such support have been internationally recognized. The 1992 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a binding convention signed by every member nation of the United Nations and formally ratified by all but two,[8] declares that the upbringing and development of children and a standard of living adequate for the children's development is a common responsibility of both parents and a fundamental human right for children, and asserts that the primary responsibility to provide such for the children rests with their parents."

Con argues, "3) If my child dost even live with me why should I accept responsibility." You should not have to be responsible for the child's actions. That falls upon the custodial party. However, the responsibility for providing "a standard of living adequate for the children's development is a common responsibility of both parents " remains by virtue of having conceived the child.

Con further argues, "4) I'm not financial stable" That situation is covered in paragraph (e) of the proposed system: "The Courts shall be responsible for determining the amounts." This provision recognizes that the circumstances of each case must be considered individually, and amounts set by the Courts accordingly. This parallels the determination of child support payments in a divorce settlement.

"EVERY PARENT in this world doesn't need to deal with this. we all make mistakes and we all need a helping hand." The burden of child support is entered into voluntarily at the time of conception. The responsibility may be avoided by not conceiving a child. Every parent needs to deal with it.

This is not a difficult concept. An anthropologist interviewed a primitive tribe in the remote Amazon jungle. The anthropologist asked, "Members of your tribe are always naked. Why is it it that you are not having sex all the time?" The tribesman responded (paraphrasing), "Don't be ridiculous. We couldn't possibly afford to support all those children." The responsibility is apparent when there is no one upon whom to foist the responsibility.

As to receiving help, nothing in the resolution precludes receiving social services. In fact, by identifying both parents it facilitates the direction of both parents to the appropriate services.
krazzybrandon

Con

Alright lets bring this up.... Jen is a low income lady who lives in the a place where abortion is illeagal. Horribly she got raped, and as a result she had a child. Not having a high income job. What should she do.

That clearly states that in all cases these parents being responsinle is injust.
Debate Round No. 2
RoyLatham

Pro

Jen has a choice. She can choose to give the child up for adoption. That ends all financial responsibility, per item (f) in the proposed system. Alternatively, she can choose to keep the child. If she chooses to keep the child, she voluntarily accepts financial responsibility for the child, as well as responsibility for the child's acts. That is exactly the same as under present law. Nothing in the proposed system precludes Jen from receiving welfare payments from the state as she would under present law.

Note that there are many more parents desirous of adopting children then there are children available for adoption. Therefore adoption is not only a theoretical choice, but a practical choice as well.

In general, the resolution places the welfare of the child above the desire of the parent, almost always the absconding father, to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of parents is accepted almost universally, as attested to by binding international treaty. What is at issue is whether or not that responsibility should be enforced. It is for the benefit of the child and responsible taxpayers that it should be enforced.

The resolution is affirmed.
krazzybrandon

Con

well we can say that jen dosnt want to give up her child

-is nothing you can say that could help her finacial responsibility
-also the child could have somthing wrong with it at birth that need some finacial statis to help it him/her. In some states the mother is still responsible

so that clearly proves that the resolved should be negated
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
dtclark, Sorry, I didn't see your comment earlier. The idea was that in case of rape, the mother had no responsibility to name the father. Authorities would still investigate, which would cover incestuous rape. The mother would retain financial responsibility unless the child was given up for adoption. Nothing precludes the mother from receiving welfare payments to subsidize support for the child if she needs such support.

I'll admit it's difficult to work out every contingency in a reasonable time for a debate resolution. You get the idea.
Posted by CrazyMonkey 7 years ago
CrazyMonkey
odd hasn't this debate. been up for like a week or something?
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 7 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
I like this idea. Let's get rid of welfare while we're at it...
Posted by dtclark2188 7 years ago
dtclark2188
Please forgive the poor grammar in the previous comment. It's really late here.
Posted by dtclark2188 7 years ago
dtclark2188
Just to be clear: The woman is required to submit to supply the names of potential fathers? Are there any exceptions to this, i.e. rape, the mother is fiscally responsible and able to raise the child on her own, etc. You mentioned that "in cases of rape, the mother bears no responsibility." Does this mean that she bears no responsibility to name the perpetrator, or that she has no responsibility to the child. I am considering taking the debate if you don't consider this comment to be argumentation, and if you can just make this point explicit.
Posted by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
I find this very interesting. One of the debates in which I'll learn more by reading than participating.

I hope you find an opponent :O
Posted by lordjosh 7 years ago
lordjosh
I am tempted, Roy. I am afraid I won't have time.
Posted by SniperJake94 7 years ago
SniperJake94
roy, you have a well stacked case. What's the grounds?
Posted by brian_eggleston 7 years ago
brian_eggleston
Very interesting topic indeed. I'm not sure I disagree with the resolution but I may take it on nonetheless.

The bottom line is that many young women know that if they have kids, one way or another, they will be looked after financially - if not by the father then by the state. Many (foolishly) see this as a more attractive option than going out to work for a living.

Something must be done, that's for sure.
Posted by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
The libertarian response would be quite quirky to support, but I can see the grounds of "government can't touch family".
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Vote Placed by vorxxox 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by krazzybrandon 7 years ago
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