The Instigator
asiansarentnerdy
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
diety
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Parents should not instill the belief that Santa Claus exists in their child's mind.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
asiansarentnerdy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/31/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,297 times Debate No: 8485
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (3)

 

asiansarentnerdy

Pro

I would like the affirm the following definitions. This debate is in no particular format; rather I shall give definitions and give reasons why I support the resolution.

-Definitions-
Instill: To introduce by gradual, persistent efforts (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)
Belief: Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)
Santa Claus: The personification of the spirit of Christmas, usually represented as a jolly fat old man with a white beard and a red suit, who brings gifts to good children on Christmas Eve. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com... Claus)
Exist: To have actual being; be real (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)

After defining these terms, we can already assume that Santa Claus is not a real being, but just to further instill this fact, I would like to include this following source:
http://www.amusingfacts.com...

Now continuing on to my points. After I have successfully proved that Santa Claus does not exist, there seems to be no reason in why parents should let their children believe in such lies. Why should they let their children believe something, then let them find out later on that it is just lies? Letting them believe nothing is better than letting them believe in lies. The parents bring out false hopes in their kids and get them all excited for nothing. This puts down their beliefs and might make the children skeptical over anything their parents say. Parents shouldn't let their kids believe in lies. Letting their children believe in Santa Claus is the equivalent of letting a kid believe that they could survive a 40 ft fall off the top of a building. It's not true.

Sources:
www.thefreedictionary.com
http://www.amusingfacts.com...
diety

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for creating this debate.

"After I have successfully proved that Santa Claus does not exist, there seems to be no reason in why parents should let their children believe in such lies. Why should they let their children believe something, then let them find out later on that it is just lies? Letting them believe nothing is better than letting them believe in lies."

Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, god, whatever. There's nothing wrong with having faith or hope that uplifts people and/or keeps them on good behavior. Faiths are a powerful tool to discipline people. Let's say your little kids won't listen to you and you want them to stop without making them upset (threatining or punishing them). You can just say "if your nice, santa claus will get you that toy for chrismas" or "if you don't be good, santa claus won't get you anything for Christmas." They if they have a strong belief in santa claus and think that they'll get toys if they act good (or won't if they act bad), they'll listen to what you have to say without getting upset.

"Letting their children believe in Santa Claus is the equivalent of letting a kid believe that they could survive a 40 ft fall off the top of a building. It's not true."

Well, not really. I don't think belief in santa claus would lead to a child's potential death. Those two beliefs are not of the same level. A better or more accurate example would maybe be belief that if you sacrifice your life to serve your country you'll automatically go to some kind of heaven or paradise.

You shouldn't go around criticizing people for their beliefs. Everyone has their own cultures and you should respect them for it.

"The parents bring out false hopes in their kids and get them all excited for nothing. This puts down their beliefs and might make the children skeptical over anything their parents say."

Shhh. Your not supposed to tell them that santa claus doesn't exist. You're supposed to let them find that out on their own. My god! By that age it won't really matter because they will probably be skeptical by nature anyway (being more mature and therefore more aware and questioning).
Debate Round No. 1
asiansarentnerdy

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate. I shall respond to my opponent's arguments in the order that they were rebutted in.

1) While it may be true that what my opponent states is a disciplinary tool, it is not the best one nor an effective one. The children will soon come to realize that no matter if they are bad or good, they will still receive Christmas presents from their parents. What kind of parents are cold-hearted enough to not give their children any gifts for Christmas? It is not an effective way to have children striving for non-existent goals, for soon they will only come to realize this and give up. This is the reason why better disciplinary actions are more common and in better use, such as proper punishment. In the situation presented by my opponent, "if you don't be good, santa claus won't get you anything for Christmas," a better punishment technique would be, "if you don't be good, I won't buy the Power Ranger toy that you really wanted to play with." Direct punishment leads to direct results, and the child will learn to be better in order to strive for a more realistic goal rather than a non-existent one. Through this, you can tell that "realistic" punishments are more effective than the unrealistic ones presented by my opponent.

2) The example presented by me is the same presented by my opponent. You know that you will go to heaven (if you believe in God) the same way that you know that you will die if you jump off a 40 ft. tall building.

3) "You shouldn't go around criticizing people for their beliefs. Everyone has their own cultures and you should respect them for it."

Unlike my opponent says, I am not criticizing people's beliefs and disrespecting them. I am simply stating, to sum it up, that it is better to believe nothing than to believe in something false. Why should people go around believing in false things when there are more important things to be worrying about?

4) You wouldn't have to tell the children that Santa Claus didn't exist had you not told them in the first place that they did. And by saying, "By that age it won't really matter because they will probably be skeptical by nature anyway (being more mature and therefore more aware and questioning).", my opponent is agreeing with the point that I have made above. When they do get older and figure out that Santa does not exist, they will realize that their parents have been lying to them all that time.

For all the above reasons, I affirm the resolution. :)
diety

Con

":)"

Chip off the old block eh?

:)

You should see my other debates

Anyway to rebut your arguments.

"1) While it may be true that what my opponent states is a disciplinary tool, it is not the best one nor an effective one....."

Your forgetting the whole point. It doesn't matter if it will eventually fail; by then they will probably be analytical by nature (hence adolescence). The point is that it will work for the moment. Virtually all means of discipline will probably fail at some point. Let me take your example: ""if you don't be good, I won't buy the Power Ranger toy that you really wanted to play with." If you're going to figure out the santa claus hoax, you're probably to dang old to be playing with those dang power rangers.

Even so, direct punishment may lead to direct results, but that doesn't necessarily make them the better results. If anything your kids may resent you for punishing them. Why not instead try positive reenforcement to PREVENT children from even thinking of getting in trouble. Why not get them envolved in sports, music, or arts? Or get them to work around the house and in return you pay them allowance? The best kind of results are not direct ones, but long term ones that keeps the childs mind on achieving a certain constructive goals to create positive benefits.

Here's a good example that directly correlates with the debate: RELIGION! You have strong belief in god right? So you aren't going to lie to people right? Every time before you lie, cheat, or steal, since you have strong faith in god you'll think, "well, maybe I shouldn't do these terrible things. After all, if I'm good, I'll go to heaven (ultimate utopia with free food and air conditioning). And if I proceed with my sinful actions I will go to hell (the ultimate place of suffering with no tv or air conditioning). Since you believe in this thing so strongly, with 'certain' knowledge of it's existence, it compels you to do it's will which happens to be positive.

"2) The example presented by me is the same presented by my opponent. You know that you will go to heaven (if you believe in God) the same way that you know that you will die if you jump off a 40 ft. tall building."

Man, no you don't. Death by jumping off of a 40ft building has been proven. The existence of heaven remains unproven. It's a faith my friend, not a fact.

"3) "You shouldn't go around criticizing people for their beliefs. Everyone has their own cultures and you should respect them for it."

Unlike my opponent says, I am not criticizing people's beliefs and disrespecting them. I am simply stating, to sum it up, that it is better to believe nothing than to believe in something false. Why should people go around believing in false things when there are more important things to be worrying about?"

You're wrong. Santa claus could be manipulating everyone on christmas by moving superfast and changing everyone's positions so they will get each other presents. And God could be doing the same thing with blessings. The existence of santa claus isn't false. If it is then god would suffer the same fate. Why believe in god when there's more things to be worrying about? I'll tell you why: It keeps people calm. It keeps people disciplined. It keeps people believing that if they stay consistent with the recommended action of society, their actions will pay off. It keeps people in line.

"4) You wouldn't have to tell the children that Santa Claus didn't exist had you not told them in the first place that they did. And by saying, "By that age it won't really matter because they will probably be skeptical by nature anyway (being more mature and therefore more aware and questioning).", my opponent is agreeing with the point that I have made above. When they do get older and figure out that Santa does not exist, they will realize that their parents have been lying to them all that time."

And? They'll probably be fine knowing that they were extremely naive and gullible when they were younger.

:)

The resolution is negated

Thank you
Debate Round No. 2
asiansarentnerdy

Pro

Haha...":)"?

Anyways, again, I will negate my opponent's points in the order that he is making them.

1) All discipline methods do not work, like my opponent states. You cannot tempt a 10 year old boy with a Barbie doll, so to say. Moreover, disciplinary methods never work for the moment, or else what is the point of them? What is the point of giving your child a spanking and time-out, only to have the punishment and consequence last for short term? Discipline should and always work for long term, unlike my opponent states. Therefore, why not choose the better disciplinary method, after I have already proved my opponent wrong because no discplinary methods last for short term?

This second point that my opponent makes, again, is a viable disciplinary option, but not the best. Using this type of "positive reenforcement" will only end up in the spoiling of said children. Soon, they will realize that they will recieve no negative, but only postive punishment, and therefore, end up being spoiled.

As posted in some of the comments on this debate, we can certainly disprove the existence of Santa Claus. However, we cannot prove nor disprove the existence of God. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether or not we choose to believe or not believe, because we don't know its true. With Santa Claus, we know for sure that he doesn't exist, therefore, there is absolutely no reason to waste time in believing in him.

2) Its a fact if you believe. As I have stated in the above paragraph, we have proven Santa not to exist. Therefore, we shouldn't waste time believing in him. We can't prove nor disprove the existence of heaven.

3) I don't know if my opponent has read the link that I included in the first round of this debate, but it mathematically proves why Santa Claus doesn't exist! Perhaps my oppoent skimmed over the link that I posted, but it proves exactly why Santa does not exist.

4) "Probably"....They also may think that their parents were lying to them and feel that they wasted so much time, or just feel stupid and ashamed of themselves. The possbilities are endless.

Vote Pro for this debate.
Thanks to my opponent for debating this with me. :]
diety

Con

diety forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by diety 7 years ago
diety
I'll say it like this: as far as religion goes, not being disproven does not make it correct. It's called an argument from ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

If something hasn't been proven correct that doesn't make it incorrect. However at the same time if something hasn't been proven incorrect, that doesn't make it correct. The same argument goes for religion, and since neither side has proof its best to just say you don't know, because knowledge of any deities is unknown.
Posted by asiansarentnerdy 7 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
@ Nags: The link in the debate...>_> lol....
um the link is not working BUT if you create an account you'll be able too see it just fine. I'm too lazy to create one but you can..lol
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
Do not insult me, Nags. You do not know me. I am actually a different religion than my parents. I have created my own ways of accepting Christ into my life. Christ and God are real, that's the point. Santa Claus is obviously fake, but God is completely real. I believe it is that simple. And I do not believe billions of other people are wrong to believe in different religions and denominations. I accept everyone, but I also have a set of values and beliefs like everyone else. I do not believe Christianity is a religion per say, I sort of believe it is a way of life. But different people have different feelings about religion and morals, and I respect that. I do not believe other people are "wrong." I embrace others who differ from me. I'm not like you: I do not assume things and I am less ignorant than you. I respect you, but it is in your best interest to not personally attack others without knowing them.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
"I agree with Mongeese. Look at the link, Nags. Santa Claus has been mathematically proven not to exist, while you can't prove that with religion. And you can find many facts supporting religious beliefs also."

Two Points:

1) What link? lol

2) Santa Claus can not be mathematically proven to not exist. Santa uses no energy and can not be seen by the human eye, he is invisible. He does not have a standard sleigh with standard flying reindeer. He has a super(invisible)-powered sleigh with super(invisible)-nitrous with super(invisible)-reindeer on steroids. It is impossible to prove that Santa does not exist.
Posted by asiansarentnerdy 7 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
GAHH error with the link!! :(
For some reason you have to create an account now to see it. How gay. :\
Posted by asiansarentnerdy 7 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
I agree with Mongeese. Look at the link, Nags. Santa Claus has been mathematically proven not to exist, while you can't prove that with religion. And you can find many facts supporting religious beliefs also.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
"...but it is to give them faith in God, for God is The Way, The Truth, and The Life."
-Why do you believe this studentathletechristian8? You only believe that because you were born into a Christian family. If you were born into a Muslim family you would believe in Allah. If you were born into a Hindu family you would believe in Krishna. If you were born into a select African tribe you would believe in black magic and witches.
-But, you believe your religion is the right religion. You believe that out of the thousands of other religions, yours is right. You believe that billions of people are wrong. Why do you believe this? Because of the family you were born into.
-Santa Claus is the same concept. Kids only believe it because of the family they were born into.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
"Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, god, whatever." (This appeared in diety's round one argument)
I would just like to say that while Santa Claus and the tooth fairy are nonexistent, God certainly does exist. It's not beneficial to give kids false hope in Santa and the tooth fairy, but it is to give them faith in God, for God is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
Even if Santa Claus has been proven to not exist, it still doesn't change the fact that kids believe whatever their parents tell them. If the kid has been secluded from the outside world his whole life, then he would never know that Santa does not exist.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
How has Santa Claus been proven to not exist? I believe in Santa Claus. I believe he makes toys for me with his elves in his workshop. He resides in the North Pole but humans can not see him because Santa, his elves, and his workshop are invisible to the human eye. My mom tells me that the trees left under the tree are from Santa, my mom never lies. The presents say To: Nags, From: Santa. Santa never lies either. Santa Claus is real.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
asiansarentnerdydietyTied
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Vote Placed by asiansarentnerdy 7 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
asiansarentnerdydietyTied
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Vote Placed by vorxxox 7 years ago
vorxxox
asiansarentnerdydietyTied
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