The Instigator
obrya1jr
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
merciless
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

Pastafarianism better than your religion.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/16/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,505 times Debate No: 12561
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (10)

 

obrya1jr

Pro

I believe that Pastafarianism is better than your religion. May the noodly appendage of my god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, touch my opponent with good graces. Ra-men!
merciless

Con

I believe that Pastafarianism is as good and only as good as other religions, including my own. I would like to ask what do Pastafarians believe. For the sake of the debate, may my opponent explain in detail. Since my opponent is the one using the qualifier here, he will have the burden of proof.
Debate Round No. 1
obrya1jr

Pro

I thank my opponent for taking me up on this debate and look forward to a good clean debate.

To enter the vast amount of "beliefs" that our people have as Pastafarians would require many pages of information. I will try to include some of the more important materials that are pertinent to this debate. I only say "beliefs" because it is a loose and subjective term that hardly applies to Pastafarianism, although it is tossed around when describing our religion. We have suggestions and facts, not beliefs.

To start, "I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him."
This belief is shared by all Pastafarians. It should not be mocked or denied at any time because that is blasphemous and will not be tolerated.
"We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. "
"What these people don't understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease."
"You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature."
"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (Pastafarianism), and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."

http://www.venganza.org...

These quotes came from the Open Letter to the Board of Kansas who decided to teach Intelligent Design along side of Evolution. Because Pastafarianism is based on science, we feel that it should be taught equally along side of ID and Evolution. "Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough."

Outside of these basic facts about our religion, here is a list of Suggestions that can be found in our Loose Canon book.
http://loose-canon.fsm-consortium.com...

With all that said, may I remind my opponent that any evidence he compiles against my religion was placed here by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to test our faith and to have some fun. Our perceptions of reality are just an allowance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and are so at his wish and command.
merciless

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

First off, I will start with explaining why Pastafarianism is no better than any other religion:

1) Pastafarianism is based off of other religions: It's obvious that Pastafarianism is based off of Christianity, as shown by the The Random Number of Not Commandments. These commandments have a striking similarity to the Christian commandments. For example "1. I am the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Thou shalt have no other monsters before Me" is the equivalent of "1. I am the Lord your God...You shall have no other gods before Me" and "2. Thou ought not do stuff thou already knowest is wrong, like killing, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Dost thou really need these carved into a rock?" is the same as commandments 6,7,8, and 9 in the Christian Bible. Some of the other Pastafarian commandments also come from the Christian Bible, such as "3. Judge not, for verily it be not thine job neither most likely to be thine business" and "9. Thou shalt remember that all the peoples of the Earth are equally My Creatures." These come from the Bible statements "Judge not, that you not be judged" and "Thou shalt remember that all the peoples of the Earth are equally My Creatures." The rest of the commandments come from having a god that is made of food and having a prophet who is a rebel. Having a religion based on other religions does not make your religion better than the original religion. If that was the case then all Jews should convert to Christianity.
2)Pastafarianism offends a lot of people: On http://www.venganza.org... Bobbie Henderson posts a lot of hate mail. Though the messages are very entertaining, they do mean that pastafarianism does offend a lot of people. Taking this religion is probably not a good idea if you care about having friends. Other religions do not offend each other and therefore their followers make friends easier.
3)Pastafarianism does not encourage people to follow ethics: Heaven for pastafarians is not a very comfortable place. It's a stripper factory and a beer volcano. Nothing else. Other religions have a golden palace to live in and lots of scenery, as well as soul mates and resurrection. Hell for pastafarians is not a very uncomfortable place. The only difference between heaven and hell is that in hell the beer is stale and the strippers have STDs. No one cares about STDs when they're dead and if the beer is stale you can instead use the beer bottles as clubs or throw them at each other for fun. Everyone's already dead, so no one gets hurt. Other religions have lakes of fire, being reborn as low-life animals, getting locked in a dark prison, etc. Thus there really is no reason to behave when you're pastafarian. Other religions keep people in line with the threat of severe punishment.
My opponent seems to be saying that Pastafarianism is based off of scientific fact. May I ask what scientific fact he is talking about. Until he can answer this I will leave his points (where are they?) unaddressed.

Sources:
http://www.google.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
obrya1jr

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for a good rebuttal for the second round. His noodly appendage has certainly touched thee.

First of all, I would like to take some time to say that I am very offended by some of the remarks against my religion. Pastafarianism is indeed a serious religion and its members become very offended when people of other religious backgrounds insult our religion.

1) My opponent says that "Pastafarianism is based off other religions." This is a downright false claim and should be disregarded. With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshipers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents—mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.[1] In fact, all of the scientific evidence found was placed here by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to test our faith. So, any other religion claiming to have books or stories of other gods or prophets is actually a fabrication of what the Flying Spaghetti Monster allows us to think and see.
My opponent also states, "It's obvious that Pastafarianism is based off of Christianity, as shown by the The Random Number of Not Commandments. These commandments have a striking similarity to the Christian commandments." The conclusion proposed by my opponent does not follow his premises. Yes, the "commandments" do share very similar views. The problem is that Pastafarianism is not based off of Christianity, but it is the other way around. The 10 Commandments passed down by "God" are based off the non-commandments that the all knowing and all wise Flying Spaghetti Monster created. Moses was given the two tablets by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (who appeared to him as a giant white man with a beard in the sky). Side note - there are many other religions that have similar views to Christianity, this does not mean they copied off Christianity either. A great example of this is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This book was composed about 2000 years before the birth of Christ and contain very similar "commandments" to that of Christianity. My point is that Christianity is not the "original" or "true" religion. It is a compilation of other previous religious values and traditions, which were put in place by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to test our faith.

2) "Pastafarianism offends a lot of people." This is true, but the point is moot. It is true that Bobby Henderson receives a lot of hate mail about this religion. To contest this point, I would just like to say that Pastafarians have never started a religious war, have never partaken in religious crusades, and certainly never kill anyone for any reason. I feel that because many other religions do in fact have a history of war and killing, it can be suggested that Pastafarianism is one of the more tame religions. A few people may be offended, sure, but more people have died in the name of "God" than in the name of "Flying Spaghetti Monster." I would thus like to make a counter point, which is that Christianity (which is my opponents apparent religion) not only offends more people but has killed more people in its name.

3) "Pastafarianism does not encourage people to follow ethics." First of I would like to say that ethics is a man made idea. Same with the sanctity of life and the death penalty. The reason why we have these values is because we are alive, we are living things, of course we are going to say that our lives have meaning and there is a sanctity of life. It gives us purpose and ethics is just an extension of that idea. We get to choose the living things that are sacred and thus deserve to live or die. Mosquitos and fly's can be killed because that are pests. Chickens and cows can be killed because we are hungry. Quails and deer can be killed, because its fun and we're hungry. Basically, we get to choose what we kill and what is right and wrong about ethics because we are the ones that made up the whole idea in the first place. [2] Second point is that Pastafarians hell and heaven seem better and more enjoyable than Christians Heaven and Hell. First off, Pastafarians are deathly afraid of STDs and especially strippers with STDs. Also, the sight of stale beer to a Pastafarian is worse than any feeling of eternal damnation and fire. This is a great reason for Pastafarians to treat others with respect so that they can partake in the sweet nectar of the beer volcano and comfortably enjoy the strip club without the worry of STD's. Your point is completely without valid reasoning.

Lastly, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created science, so anything scientific is based on the actions of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and are so by his deed. Pastafarianism is scientific fact. Plain and simple.

My religion is fun, funny, original, scientific fact, and the bases for all other religions and religious values.

[1] http://www.venganza.org...
[2] George Carlin
merciless

Con

My opponent attempts to deny that Pastafarianism is based off of other religions. He says, "The problem is that Pastafarianism is not based off of Christianity, but it is the other way around." I would like to remind my opponent that Christianity came more than 2000 years before Pastafarianism and in today's society if something is similar to something that came before it we say that the former is based off the latter, not the other way around. True, there are many religions that have similar values to Christianity, such as Judaism (which Christ copied) and the Egyptian book you mentioned (which Moses copied). I never said Christianity was the true religion. I'm not Christian. I'm arguing for Christianity because its followers oppose Pastafarianism the most and my religion is one that you would not know. My opponent also claims the Flying Spaghetti Monster gave Moses the 2 tablets. I can just as logically and truthfully say that God gave Moses those tablets. I can also say those previous values and traditions my opponent mentions were also put in place by God.

My opponent also says that Pastafarians have never started a religious war or crusade. May I remind him that they are in one right now. Their enemies are the Christians and to win battles one doesn't kill, but pisses the other side off. True, pastafarians have never killed anyone over religion, but that's only because pastafarians don't own a country, so they don't have a chance to commit mass murder over religion. The crusaders of the Middle Ages all were serving a country, and thus they had power to go to war. My opponent also says that Christianity not only offends more people but has also killed more. Christianity has offended radical muslims, but your religion offends all loyal muslims.

My opponent says that ethics are man-made and so can be manipulated. Some ethics can, but the most basic morality is agreed upon by all humans. Your religion does not encourage you to follow ethics. Your FSM may tell you not to steal, but he's not going to punish you severely if you do steal. My opponent then goes on to talk about heaven and hell. He says pastafarian heaven is better than Christian heaven, but says nothing on how. He also says that pastafarians are more afraid of STDs and stale beer than being surrounded by molten magma. I don't believe a word of it, but if you're really that afraid of STD's and stale beer, then that is what Satan's going to give you in the Christian hell, according to the Bible itself.

My opponent continues to stress how the FSM created science. I can also say that God created science.

Lastly, my religion is also fun, original, scientific fact, and the base for all other religions and values. It is a religion too sacred to be named and one that you would not know, so I won't bother explaining.

Oh, and funny is by no means a way to judge a religion.

Pro has not met his burden of proof: proving that Pastafarianism is better than other religions. Vote Con.

Sources: Bible
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by obrya1jr 6 years ago
obrya1jr
Actually, I'm not anti-establishment or an anarchist wanna be. I tend to dislike groups in general and enjoy individuals as I meet them, not by which group of people they associate themselves with. Sarcastic, yes. Ill-meaning, no. There is nothing evil or wicked about being sarcastic. Sarcasm is one of the most subtle, yet strong aspects of language. Upon reading the title of "Pastafarianism is better than your religion" Con should have noticed that this was a satirical attempt to have a fun and still meaningful conversation about religion, with a fun undertone. Sure there are honest debates on this site, and I plan to partake in them. What I like to point out is that not everything needs to be decided, proven, or argued seriously. Sometimes, we all need to just relax and enjoy the odd and funny side of being a human.
Posted by obrya1jr 6 years ago
obrya1jr
Actually, I'm not anti-establishment or an anarchist wanna be. I tend to dislike groups in general and enjoy individuals as I meet them, not by which group of people they associate themselves with. Sarcastic, yes. Ill-meaning, no. There is nothing evil or wicked about being sarcastic. Sarcasm is one of the most subtle, yet strong aspects of language. Upon reading the title of "Pastafarianism is better than your religion" Con should have noticed that this was a satirical attempt to have a fun and still meaningful conversation about religion, with a fun undertone. Sure there are honest debates on this site, and I plan to partake in them. What I like to point out is that not everything needs to be decided, proven, or argued seriously. Sometimes, we all need to just relax and enjoy the odd and funny side of being a human.
Posted by DylanAsdale 6 years ago
DylanAsdale
I tend to like /real/ debates. Obviously pro is some raging anti-establishment anarchist wannabe, as evidenced by his profile, on which he enters that he belongs to the "Marijuana Party". The length of the existence of such a party, I am not aware of, but obviously Pro is sarcastic, ill-meaning, and generally idiotic. Argument for argument's sake is fun sometimes, but only when there is actually a logical base for one's argument. It's immediately apparent that Pro wishes nothing more than to enter a soapbox on a platform that is meant for honest debate. Who did I agree with before and after the debate? Con. Who had better conduct? Con, of course. Better spelling/grammar? Con. More convincing arguments? Con, considering that Pro is arguing a subjective opinion, to which he attempts to present as fact, without having ever defined "better". These two facts alone show that Pro has no real chance of presenting a convincing argument. More reliable sources? Con, considering that Pro is attempting to present a derivative, satirical, non-existent religion as "better" (which, again, is subjective).
Posted by obrya1jr 6 years ago
obrya1jr
I only wish I had added more rounds to this debate. What my opponent failed to realize during the whole debate is that this is a completely satirical debate/religion/concept. You see, religion is a human way of expressing importance. It was originally created thousands of years ago by humans that could not explain natural phenomena that exists in this world. Things like lightning storms, earthquakes, tornadoes, and dreams were all passed off as "godly." The facts are that we evolved, period. There is overwhelming evidence of evolution. Sure, religion serves a good purpose, which is to give people a group to associate with and good ethics and morals to live by, but without religion, we would still be living by these codes of ethics. The story behind most religions make no logical sense because there is no consistencies and there is sometimes complete hypocrisy. This is due to human error. If God truly existed, and was all powerful, all knowing, and all loving, he certainly would not create a race of humans that has f***ed up this bad for its entire existence. That would not be his divine plan. Pastafarianism is a "religion" that uses satire to try to show people that there is no "true, correct, or original" religion. People are offended because they dedicated their entire lives to following this idea, and when it is embarrassingly and deliberately disproved, over and over again, in their faces, they tend to get defensive about it. I chose to do this debate to make an example of this. We, as humans, are a part of nature, we follow the laws of nature, and when we die, our bodies decompose and our nutrients feed the ground and the living things that will come after us. This is how it is and how it always has been. Just because our brains want a reason to feel important or have purpose does not mean we need to make up religious stories, start wars over ideas in these religions, or judge others for their beliefs. We just need to treat other humans with respect and love.
Posted by Brandonmaciel333 6 years ago
Brandonmaciel333
i say this debate was retarded
Posted by Procrastarian 6 years ago
Procrastarian
There was a really really easy win here if con had just stated that pastafarianism WAS his religion.
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