The Instigator
conservativemike08
Pro (for)
Tied
42 Points
The Contender
mariahsaywhaaa
Con (against)
Tied
42 Points

Patriotism is the best quality one can have.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,646 times Debate No: 288
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (28)

 

conservativemike08

Pro

We have more freedom, more rights, and a better quality of life than anywhere else in the world. We are protected from attacks and we can choose our own destiny. Americanism and patriotism are bedrocks in our society. There is a growing trend right now that to teach kids to be patriotic is to teach rebellion. We are scared to death of the rest of the world and we don;t even want to stand up for ourselves now. Non patriotism is essentionally the same as treason. You have a right to disagree with the country, but to constantly bash it and still live here? No thanks, please move away.
mariahsaywhaaa

Con

I'm not supporting "bashing" in any way, I simply just disagree with teaching patriotism in schools. I don't think that's something we need to push on students. At times i agree it is very important to be behind our government and don't get me wrong i love the idea of what american is supposed to be but once you add greed money and other inadequate traits you don't get that idea anymore.
Debate Round No. 1
conservativemike08

Pro

Yet why shouldn't it be taught in school? American history is a history of patriotism. Greed and love of money are prevelant everywhere and always have been. One cannot just sit by and claim the worst if they are not willing to strive for the ideal. America is the hope of the world. So questions

1. What would you like America to become?
2. Why should patriotism not be taught?
3. Isn't it patriotism the reason you can disagree in the first place?
mariahsaywhaaa

Con

I would like America to be what it was once promised to be, it all sounds really good until you realize the lies, the killing, censoring?! If we have freedom of speech and stuff why do we censor certain things because people are offended or because somehow it's morally wrong?! I mean we have leaders cheating there way into office's? People who are letting money get in the way of whats right?! taking other countries "under our wing" (taking out leaders and trying to put a new system of gov. in). I mean our leaders are so concerned with themselves and what they think is right they aren't even taking care of there OWN PEOPLE. When hurricane Katrina hit it took us like 4-5 days to get water to the super dome, we spent so much money on trailers for those people and then found out the landscape couldn't support them so we ended up giving them to the Indian reservations thinking we were doing good and the Indians started to get sick because they were so cheaply made and the finish on the wood was making them sick. THATS RIDICULOUS.

I understand that mistakes are all right but how can you say you're actually
happy with the way America is being ran?!

now for the second question i don't think it's something to be taught because i don't think it's necessary, it's around us everyday all ready. plus a lot of times when you teach little kids certain things they just accept it as it and they are content with it. I just think it's not something thats needs to be pushed. If you take pride in you're country GREAT but if you don't that doesn't mean that you need to get out?!

And i think it's the constitution that lets me disagree in the first place
Debate Round No. 2
conservativemike08

Pro

Well to begin, the freedom of speech is really that free to begin with. One may not slander or invoke what is identified by the constitution as fighting words. With any type of government where you have a very broad freedom, some restrictions must reside to insure order. In regards to freedom of speech one can say pretty much whatever one wishes, but you may expect cendorship if what is being said is too rash against the government. You can disagree with it's actions but the government will not please everyone, indeed it cannot.

That's the thing about being free is that it is not totally free. Not because our government wishes us to be restricted, but because men must be governed. The Far left has turned the media into a circus and they only ever report and build upon the negative aspects of government. This is why he have more offensive and immoral content on television. The get around the offensive rule in the constitution by claiming the filth is "art". Is that something you feel comfortable with when it comes to your children on day? Gay and lesbian marriages are seen as longer lasting compared to traditional marriage through the eyes of the boob tube. Premarital and extra marital sex is also shown as normal. Why? Because it is shown as art, because under the consitution it would not be allowed.

Next, I assume you are referring to the 2000 election when Bush beat Gore in the second tightest election in History. Florida had an issue with it's voting machines. Bush did not cheat. Gore wanted a recount again and again and again and each time he lost. Eventually there must be a winner and with the provisions that we have in place for such an event, Bush was declared the winner. I remember the African Americans claiming their votes had been thrown away and many votes were, but not just theirs but many peoples because the ticket had a hole punched for both Bush and Gore so they were disqualified. That is why Bush won, because he would have won anyway. Then you have people that cry Gore had that popular vote, but we have the electoral college because mainly the masses will not make a wise decision and that's why the founding fathers put it in place. Let's face it some people should just stay out of politics.

With Hurricane Katrina, I say this with all due respect, it didn't just happen with them at unawares. They were told to evacuate and they chose not to, not because they couldn't but because they wanted to stay. It is then that they choose to blame the government. And yes I agree, it shouldn't have taken the government so long, but it was a state problem. I had not previously known of the Indian situation so I cannot comment as I know little detail.

Patriotism should be taught in schools though. I do not see it all around me and I live in the south, one of the most patriotic regions in America. I will tell you what I see. I see America insulted and ridculed by it's own entertainment industry. I see Rolling Stone fabricate lies of every manner against America. I see a land where at one time it was considered taboo for the flag to be burned by just anyone, and even then it had to be for a special occasion. Now people do it out of protest because it's symbolic and it's art. I live in a land where people want the God of our fathers removed in every way from our most important documents as the misinterpret the constitution. The need for patriotism is greater than ever. It is on the shoulders of patriots that we even have this debate. Which brings me to my last point...

It is patriotism that allows for your free speech just as it allows for the 5 rifles and 2 pistols in my home. If not for patriotism we would not have broken from England and we would not have our constitution that makes us free.

Thanks for the debate. Mayhaps we shall debate again as there are a few other topics in which I would like us to discuss.
mariahsaywhaaa

Con

What you said is very true they can't please everyone and i understand that, i mean life is compromise but if someone wants to openly say something about there government then they should be aloud to without censoring, if someone wants to say something about another person they should be aloud to. It's personal opinion, it's not really hurting anyone.

And with the election you don't find that funny at all?! that bush had family that was in office in Florida?! and America was told gore had it then all of a sudden bush had it? Maybe thats just my skepticism but whatever.

How do you consider marriage and sex an art, im not really sure i really follow you on that.

And then back to the main topic, technically patriotism IS already taught in schools, you have history which talks about all the wars and support the country gave it's leaders, you have the pledge of allegiance a moment of silence, the flag, recruiters ( i mean we have at least 3-4 different recruiters a WEEK at my school). My school even raised a lot of money and built a huge memorial to vets in my town and vets that attended our school.
On tv you have those army and navy and air force commercials talking about serving you're country?

I personally think thats enough, i don't think we need to add another thing
to our schools to push support for our leaders, our government, our county.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mariahsaywhaaa 9 years ago
mariahsaywhaaa
"and a better quality of life than anywhere else in the world"

how can you make that assumption?!
what makes you think that we of all people
have perfected something like that.

im not attacking you, im just really interested.
Posted by conservativemike08 9 years ago
conservativemike08
I apologize...it is a generalized statement, but for the most part it is the truth for most people who consider themselves liberal. The true meaning of patriotism is in conflict with the liberal views of a world wide fellowship without boundaries of imaginary lines. One who would be against patriotism who also be against nationalism which in essence gives us our Americanness if I may.
Posted by mariahsaywhaaa 9 years ago
mariahsaywhaaa
I don't hate patriotism?!
Posted by conservativemike08 9 years ago
conservativemike08
actually I have read the institution and the freedom of speech does not include slanderous words, fighting words, or lies. Liberals hate patriotism because it doesn't allow liberals to be liberals.
Posted by Redman 9 years ago
Redman
Mike, it's people like you who made the witch hunts of the 16th century in Europe and who word "rational" a completely tyrannical term. Unpatriotic in this country=FREEDOM OF SPEECH....READ YOUR CONSTITUTION, if you are such a Patriot. Good work Mariah. You are quite the intelligent and admirable debator.
Posted by Black.Nite17 9 years ago
Black.Nite17
Wow Mariahsaywhaa is a very good debater and really owned this person. and she has a nice avatar.
Posted by MWorley 9 years ago
MWorley
I'm very disappointed in how many of you are voting. This is a debate, and you need to vote for who actually won the debate. Your opinion on the view truly should not impact your vote in who presented the superior argument.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Patriotism actually keeps us from peace and equality in the world. If we all realized we are all inhabitants of the world, and that we should love our home (the earth) and our fellow man, we would all come to more rational conclusions.
Posted by jh64487 9 years ago
jh64487
we um...don't have a better quality of life actually. we come in just behind Cuba in terms of quality of life ranking at #30.

http://depts.washington.edu...

it's called the health Olympics, this makes me have to throw my support to mariah as the opening argument for the pro is pretty much invalidated.

however, i do agree that the most important thing an american can be is patriotic. remember in "the rocketman" when the criminal gangsta's basically said they we're american's first and criminals after, and then shot up the nazis? well I basically cheered my head off.
Posted by schoolglutton 9 years ago
schoolglutton
I don't think Mariah did what she needed to -- show at least one other quality that she was able to establish as better than patriotism. Had she done that, I thought it would have been hers. Just look at the way the main claim is phrased in the title.
28 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by mattresses 9 years ago
mattresses
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by griffinisright 9 years ago
griffinisright
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Redman 9 years ago
Redman
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Black.Nite17 9 years ago
Black.Nite17
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Scyrone 9 years ago
Scyrone
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Devils_Advocate 9 years ago
Devils_Advocate
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Ineffablesquirrel 9 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Madnesswithin 9 years ago
Madnesswithin
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by wheelhouse3 9 years ago
wheelhouse3
conservativemike08mariahsaywhaaaTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30