The Instigator
tarsjake
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
kenito001
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

Patriotism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,561 times Debate No: 1406
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (19)

 

tarsjake

Pro

I can not see how you are not for patriotism. You must think the america is the bad guy in the world and we create a lot more problems than we fix.
kenito001

Con

I do not think America is the "bad guy" in the world. I support America's obligation to other countries as a global superpower because that is the price it must pay for the higher standard of living. Anti-American sentiment has been bred throughout our history. America has always had a prime enemy: Britain, the Confederacy, the Central Powers, the Nazis and the Axis Powers, Communism, and now Jihadism.

I am against patriotism because it is, first and foremost, used today as a tool. I support America. I enjoy being an American. I appreciate the freedom and rights granted by the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The problem exists when, as a liberal and an American who opposes war, my beliefs are declared "unpatriotic" and "immoral". I hold all of my political views in support of the America that I believe in; an America established on peace and fairness. Questioning a President should not only be allowed, but it should also be encouraged. Regardless of who is in power, whether I agree with their actions are not, I, unlike many other individuals, respect the right of others to share their opinion, so long as it is reasonable and not harmful to others, basically in line with the freedom of speech as interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court ruling "you aren't allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater".

The most modern interpretation of patriotic and unpatriotic has been skewed from what it should be. Patriotism is the devoted love and appreciation of one's country. When an individual does not believe in the actions or ideologies of his or her country, then he or she is "unpatriotic". Unpatriotic carries a negative connotation because of its association with treason and rebellion. That is your interpretation of the word "unpatriotic". I myself, am unpatriotic, however, merely because I do not appreciate what America has turned into under the Bush Administration. My interpretation of the Bush Doctrine is a policy of greed, selfishness, and carelessness. Whether my opinions are founded or not, they are how I feel in respect to my country. So long as I feel this way, I am not patriotic.
Debate Round No. 1
tarsjake

Pro

Sometimes patriotism is used as a tool but more often that not it is showing love for one's country. I would never call you unpatriotic for opposing a policy, that's what patriotism is; its having the freedom to choose your side
kenito001

Con

"Sometimes patriotism is used as a tool but more often that not it is showing love for one's country. I would never call you unpatriotic for opposing a policy"
I thank you for that. Sadly, many passionate Republicans accompany themselves with ignorance and spite. Being a Republican who is truly fair and balanced is the best type of Republican.

"that's what patriotism is; its having the freedom to choose your side"
Freedom of choice is having the freedom to choose one's side.

Patriotism is marked by the judgment of one's society. Patriotism should be as you state it. Patriotism SHOULD be the manner in which one respects his or her own country, and unpatriotism should be treason. However, my dissent on the majority of America has left me marked unpatriotic. And I will consider myself unpatriotic until America has changed for the better. I do not love what America is doing, neither do I respect it nor support it. America should not discriminate, regardless on the basis of sex, race, or sexual preference. America should not infringe upon the liberties of its people. America should treat its enemies the way it wants its troops to be treated. America should lead as an example of the moral high ground, not the exact interpretation of morality in the words of Evangelical Christians. Sure, as an eighteen year old, I have much of my life to look forward to, much to learn, and am still maturing. However, unlike many others, I do pride myself in acknowledging when I do not know what I am talking about. Before I take an opinion, I examine both sides of the issue and decide which fits me best. Although I am fiscally conservative and against taxes, I feel that it is in the best interests of America to have higher taxes because of the external benefits involved. I am personally against gay marriage, but the government has no right to tell Americans when they can marry or not marry when there are many more important issues at hand. Essentially, empathy is the greatest tool that God gave to mankind. I am unpatriotic because I believe that America has lost its way.
Debate Round No. 2
tarsjake

Pro

In saying american has lost its way you ARE saying that america is the bad guy, many americans are great people however there are few how would call you unpatriotic for your beliefs. The only way i would call you unpatriotic would be if you did not and would not defend freedom.
kenito001

Con

"In saying american has lost its way you ARE saying that america is the bad guy, many americans are great people however there are few how would call you unpatriotic for your beliefs. The only way i would call you unpatriotic would be if you did not and would not defend freedom"
America isn't the bad guy, it just needs to reconsider its priorities in politics. I am classifying those who would call me unpatriotic as those who voted Bush into office in 2004, having seen the effects of his beliefs and the Bush Doctrine. I know that me saying it is the majority of Americans is an assumption that is certainly not true, however, for the purpose of holding a three round debate, it simplifies the arguments.

I would not defend freedom if that was interpreted as me being shipped off to Iraq to fight in the war.

Side note:
Although it is very radical, my personal position on war is to make a constitutional amendment to make a declaration of war a purely democratic process:
1. All able bodied Americans are allowed to vote on a declaration of war approved by Congress and the President, and then sent to the American people.
2. A declaration of war is valid if 50% of American approve of it.
3. In choosing who fights in the war, the following process is followed:
a) The first round of troops to go to war are those who are in the military.
b) The second round of troops to go to war are those who voted for the war.
c) The third round of troops to go to war are those who did not vote.
d) The fourth round of troops to go to war are those who voted against the war.

The problem with war, in the modern era, is the military inexperience of our leaders. With the exception of John McCain, no Presidential candidate really knows the experience of war or military service. The majority of those dying in Iraq are impoverished, lower, or middle class Americans who joined the military because they desperately needed money. The Bush Administration and the American government is not sending its sons and daughters to fight in Iraq; they are sending blue collar America. I'm not asserting a radical or irrational position on America's foreign policy, but the wars that shaped America as it is today, World War I, World War II, the Civil War, and the Revolutionary War, the people who were legislating the war were the same people who were fighting the war.

Thanks for the debate,

The Colonel
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by dalzuga 8 years ago
dalzuga
hey kenito. nicely done. patriotism is a tool that is unpatriotic.
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Vote Placed by kenito001 7 years ago
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