The Instigator
CarmenAnu
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
I-am-a-panda
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

People should be free to express their religious views in schools.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/3/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,316 times Debate No: 13552
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

CarmenAnu

Pro

I'm not exactly sure how all this works on the website, as I've only ever participated in my school debates, but after reviewing other debates by other people, I have a better understanding of how these things go but if I do something wrong, please tell me and I will make sure that I rectify my mistakes.

The terms of the resolution are pretty clear but my opponent may make any notes or clarifications in the first round. The debate will start with my opening arguments in R2. We will each have 72 hours to post a round and R2 will be used strictly for our opening arguments. Rebuttals in R3 and the debates conclusion in R4.

I wish to thank whomever accepts the challenge and I look forward to having an exciting and educational debate. Good luck!
I-am-a-panda

Con

I thank my opponent for this debate.

School: An institution for the instruction of children or people under college age.

This definition implies all places of schooling, be they private or public.

This definition is the only clarification needed for this debate on my side. I await my opponents argument in Round
Debate Round No. 1
CarmenAnu

Pro

I agree with the Con's definition of school. I will now begin my argument.

According to the 1st Amendment of The United States Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or "prohibiting the free exercise" thereof; or "abridging the freedom of speech" or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." By not allowing people, both students and teachers, to express their religious views in school, the United States government is going against the amendment they put down.

"Americans are being denied the right to express their religious speech in the public square." Ralph Reed, Christian Coalition.

Because of religious in-tolerance in schools, grown people are afraid to express their religious views in any public setting. Having freedom of expression about religion in schools will, at an early age, lessen the fears of being discriminated against by others. Also, by allowing people to freely express their religions in schools, more people will become more tolerant of other religions and allow them to have a better grasp of the religions of the world.

"Nothing in the First Amendment converts our public schools into religion-free zones, or requires all religious expression to be left behind at the school house door." President Clinton, 1995-JUL-12.

I believe that his quote explains itself.

I cannot continue further until I no the Negative's argument.

http://www.usconstitution.net...

http://www.religioustolerance.org...

http://www.religioustolerance.org...
I-am-a-panda

Con

I thank my opponent, and on to my arguments.

--- 1) Private Property Rights ---

As the definition of schools includes private schools, as explained in Round 1, then such a law would mean private schools would have to allow for freedom of religious expression in schools. This of course would fly in the face of the right for owners private property to restrict people from entry onto their private property. If a person, say Joe, owns a school and decides to make it a Christian school. However with this law, Joes school may not be so Christian if students are not only allowed to speak out against Christianity, but what they say must be tolerated by law. This completley undermines the property as Joes. Thus, such a law would undermine the principle of private property.

--- 2) Unscientific Religious Views ----

Many religions espouse a religious view which is a direct contradiction to facts thought in school. The belief of Creationism by the majority of Evangelicals springs to mind. Creationist theory goes against the usually thought Evolution, and for a creationist to have to be given time durign class to voice their opinion on such topic would be detrimental to the class and an overall waste of time seeing as it is not a subjective topic. Indeed, there should be a restriction practised by public schools on students time wasting with all uneducated views, not just religious ones.

--- 3) Secularism ----

The 1st Amendment implies that the US government ought to remain neutral in regards to religion. This means giving all religions equality, and the fairest way to do this is the government to remain totally neutral to religions, and giving none preference. This is best achievable through a policy of secularism, where religion is not involved in state institutions. In doing this freedom to express a religion must be banned from public schools.

I await my opponents rebuttal in round 3.
Debate Round No. 2
CarmenAnu

Pro

CarmenAnu forfeited this round.
I-am-a-panda

Con

Quite unfortunate my opponent has forfeited her 3rd Round.

"By not allowing people, both students and teachers, to express their religious views in school, the United States government is going against the amendment they put down." - The first amendment states the government cannot prohibit free speech, not that private individual, or that the government must uphold the tenet of free speech.

"Ralph Reed Quote - Ralph Reed is not an infallible source of information. This applies to public schools, not private ones, if indeed this is a true statement.

"Having freedom of expression about religion in schools will, at an early age, lessen the fears of being discriminated against by others. Also, by allowing people to freely express their religions in schools, more people will become more tolerant of other religions and allow them to have a better grasp of the religions of the world." - Perhaps it may. But why is that necessarily a good thing. If Satanist promoting murder of innocent people had their views tolerated by others, it may not lead to such an idyllic situation. Indeed my opponent has not presented evidence that this would lead to greater religious tolerance, and why it is necessarily a good thing.

"Clinton quote" - Bill Clinton is not an infallible source of information. Secondly he only mentions public schools, not private ones. And while the first amendment does prohibit religious expression, it certainly doesn't invoke the government to uphold it.

I await my opponents Round 4.
Debate Round No. 3
CarmenAnu

Pro

CarmenAnu forfeited this round.
I-am-a-panda

Con

My opponent has again forfeited her round. What a shame. I shall disregard any closing statement, my argument is to be found in Rounds 2 and 3.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by I-am-a-panda 6 years ago
I-am-a-panda
@Geo: As per the definition in R1 this involved private schools.

@Mirza: No I'm not, but I lack any ability to conjure the effort to do a full-blown debate.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
"Given that a state should follow strict secularism, no."

Then why did you also mention public schools? In case you are not in favour of expressing religious views at public schools, you can debate me on it.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 6 years ago
GeoLaureate8
The state can't enforce strict secularism. As Pro stated, the state can't prohibit the exercise of religion.

Btw, I don't know why you limited the scope of debate to just private schools. Those are a rare and minor case, plus, most private schools are religious anyways. This debate was clearly aimed at public schools. It's obvious that private property owners can do whatever they want with their property.
Posted by I-am-a-panda 6 years ago
I-am-a-panda
Given that a state should follow strict secularism, no.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
"School: An institution for the instruction of children or people under college age.

This definition implies all places of schooling, be they private or public."

Do you think that people should not express their religious views at public schools?
Posted by I-am-a-panda 6 years ago
I-am-a-panda
Pretty much. Government should have no domain on private schools.
Posted by Mirza 6 years ago
Mirza
I-am-a-Panda,

Is this your real position on the matter?
Posted by CarmenAnu 6 years ago
CarmenAnu
i apologise for the forfit but i was slightly occupied in the hospital
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
CarmenAnuI-am-a-pandaTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
CarmenAnuI-am-a-pandaTied
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Vote Placed by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
CarmenAnuI-am-a-pandaTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
CarmenAnuI-am-a-pandaTied
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