The Instigator
mathnerd
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
magpie
Con (against)
Winning
32 Points

People should not eat animals.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,703 times Debate No: 1666
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (13)

 

mathnerd

Pro

This is my first debate, so I would like to start with something simple and pretty straight forward.

There are three reasons why becoming vegetarian (defined as not eating the flesh of animals, a diet that may or may not include the consumption of eggs and milk) is both beneficial to the person and to the global community.
1. A vegetarian diet is healthier. All required nutrients may be obtained easily with a little attention, and a vegetarian diet has been shown to decrease chances of cancer and heart disease (because plant foods contain no cholestrol and very little saturated fat).
2. Animal agriculture is the number one human-caused source of the greenhouse gas methane, which is 23 times as potent as carbon dioxide. The rearing of cattle and other animals also contribute to the species extinction from habitat destruction, erosion caused by over grazing, excess land use compared to vegetable farming, and water pollution and eutrophication from animal waste and fertilized grazing pastures.
3. Common animal farming practices are cruel and unsafe. Most people can agree upon this, however, the morality of animal treatment is highly subjective and I would like to not focus too much on whether a chicken has the same feelings of pain, whether it really matters, etc.

For the environmental impacts of animal agriculture:
http://www.vegetarisme.be...

For the American Dietetic Association's position on the vegetarian diet:
http://www.eatright.org...
magpie

Con

Mathnerd:

Of your three reasons to be a vegetarian (defined as not eating the flesh of animals, a diet that may or may not include the consumption of eggs and milk) is beneficial to both the vegetarian and to the global community.
1. A vegetarian diet is more healthful. All 13 amino acids and other required nutrients may be obtained easily with very much attention. A vegetarian diet has been shown to decrease chances of cancer and heart disease (because plant foods contain no cholesterol and very little saturated fat).
Actually, some veggies contain huge amounts of saturated fats - coconuts for example. So we are in close agreement on point one.

2. Animal agriculture is the number one human-caused source of the greenhouse gas methane, which is 23 times as potent as carbon dioxide. The rearing of cattle and other animals also contributes to the extinction of many species from habitat destruction, erosion caused by over grazing, excess land use compared to vegetable farming, and water pollution and eutrophication from animal waste and fertilized grazing pastures. To say nothing about the higher costs of vegetables because of the reduction of quality arable land.
I'm not terribly concerned about green house gases, as I am not a subscriber of human caused Global Warming Theory, but I generally agree with point two.

3. Common animal farming practices are cruel and unsafe. Most people can agree upon this, however, the morality of animal treatment is highly subjective and I would like to not focus too much on whether a chicken has the same feelings of pain, whether it really matters, etc.

My divergence from you position is in the inconsistencies of accepting the consumption of milk and eggs and the fact that your profile shows that you are pro-abortion. Chickens that are used for egg production are kept in tight environments, Additionally their beaks are cut back to prevent damage to their crowded-in neighbors. After a very miserable life they are slaughtered for soup, when they are no longer productive. Presumably, they would still be slaughtered for pet food, even if all persons became vegetarians of the egg and milk variety.
In the case of milk cows, heifers are welcomed but (male) calves are eschewed as a liability. Right now they are immediately slaughtered for (monkey) veal. Their venerated sisters will calve and produce milk and calve, again until they no longer produce. They then become food for pets. Not a great life either.
Lastly, you favor abortion. Forgive me if I presume that your sympathies are reserved for animals.
Even though I am not a vegetarian, I try to limit my intake of animal flesh.

I disagree with PETA in their ‘Animal Rights' position. There is certainly, an ethical requirement that we the limit pain and discomfort that farm animals must endure, but animals have no rights. In the other hand . I admire your compassion for animals. Your arguments are well reasoned and strongly stated.
Debate Round No. 1
mathnerd

Pro

Thank you.

I am also not a great supporter of PETA, because of their methods to obtain rights for animals. I want to say, however, that being pro-choice doesn't mean that I am pro-abortion. I certainly believe that women should try very much to prevent an abortion, but I believe in a women's right to choose, just as I believe that people should be vegetarian, but consider it a personal choice. Since you looked at my profile, also viewed yours, and I find it amusing that you consider yourself "educated" with some college, the same educational level that I have reached at thirteen years old.

I don't believe we disagree about any issues involved in this debate except global warming, so there is really no reason to continue this argument. I think that debate.org should distinguish between support of PETA and vegetarianism.
magpie

Con

Mathnerd: The veggie/PETA conundrum is repeated in the specification of educational level. Even though we both selected "some college" I strongly doubt that your educational level is anywhere near mine. You are obviously very mature and intelligent but that lends little to gross education. Much of my education is self learned. In any case, though I have no degrees I do have 165 CU's - far more than enough for a 4 year degree. I also attended many not-for-credit courses.
Additionally:
1. I completed an art appreciation course from NY Metropolitan Museum, equivalent to four semesters.
2. By your age I had read most of the content of the 20 volumes of ‘The Book Of Knowledge‘.
3. I am self taught and proficient in electronics, plumbing, TV, radio (built several civilian band radios in my teens), and most other electronics, as well as starting & running my own business in appliance repair (refrigerator, washer, dryer, dish-washer, and air conditioner ). I am proficient in automotive repair of all systems on cars to the early 1980's, as well as current autos with the exception of new control systems. I built a garage and a stable. I have performed virtually all additions, modifications, installations, repairs and improvements on all of my 25+ cars and several homes, over the course of 50+ years.
4. In my employment as a computer Hardware/Software Engineer, I attended over three thousand hours of class and lab.
5. I taught over one thousand computer professionals (almost all with college degrees - many with advanced degrees) over a ten year period. This took me to all parts of the world. I wrote a college course in computer technology and taught the course for three semesters.
6. I have subscribed for 55 years(almost continuously) to several technical magazines such as Scientific American. I have, often, discovered technical mistakes that I reported, especially in astronomy.
7. I am more knowledgeable in genetics than are most physicians.
8. I am knowledgeable in economics and statistics. My understanding of the stock investment universe is beyond most first year rookies on Wall Street.
9. My working vocabulary is a hefty 25K+ words.
I could go on, but I've made my point. I am, indeed, educated.
One question remains: Did I win the debate? IMHO - No! I'm voting for you. Congratulations on your first win.
Debate Round No. 2
mathnerd

Pro

I apologize for my thoughtless comment. I'm a little full of myself.

Thank you for debating with me; I look forward to any future debates between us, since we seem to disagree about so much.
magpie

Con

Mathnerd

No harm no foul. I encourage you to always know your opponent. Read from your opponents' profiles, other debates and comments. Make judgments. Profile. Challenge.
You did all this. You did the right things.
I detected a little ‘gotcha' - but that's fine. There was no animus in your statement.
When debating or arguing via electronics, there is no tone of voice, facial expression, nor body language to give you clues of the opponent's demeanor. But, your statement carried no meanness.
I believe that you read my response and inferred that I was angry. I wasn't. Just emphatic.
I have a Mensa level IQ, but I can tell by the clarity of your arguments, your choice of handle, and your reasoning ability, that your IQ is probably higher than mine.
The fact is, I presumed that your arguments would be in defense of PETA. I presumed incorrectly. I had no valid arguments against the case for vegetarianism, so I challenged you on inconsistency. Even though I do stand by my accusation, it in itself does not undo the rest of your argument. Ergo, you win.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Oh and by the way kels, there hasn't been four food groups for about ten years.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Humans are naturally naked too but we wear clothes because we've evolved to practice behavior that is beneficial to us.
Posted by mathnerd 9 years ago
mathnerd
I also believe that humans are NATURALLY selfish... that altruism is a learned habit. This does not mean that I believe crime is necessary. Crime hurts other people; eating meat harms the earth and the animals. Shouldn't we care about that?
Posted by TheConstitution 9 years ago
TheConstitution
humans are NATURALLY omnivores.... its the cycle of life get over it
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
You're words I can't say on here ...so I'm really not worried about it ...lol
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
I wrote a who long rant to you but then lost it so I'll just sum it up for you.

You're a dummy.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
artc , I am sick of you and your constant degrading comments to me. You think you are so wonderful and smart, however I think your constant belittling comments only make you look like a joke. You use this site to get attention from men and that is so sad. Aside from that if you don't want to eat animals that is your choice. However I notice that you ignored that meat is one of the 4 food groups. Using a bear was an example, any meat eating animal would eat you or I in a second. Why don't you go into a jungle and see if a tiger would feel bad and not eat you. The point of my comment was not about eating bears and if you are too simpleminded to understand then why should I explain this to you. What we need on this site is a way to ignore certain people on this site , because you are the one person I would ignore. You obviously have a problem with me as it seems you follow me and comment on every single thing that I say and I am so tired of your rude comments. You seem to have a fixation on what I say , it is weird. I will ask that you please refrain on your wise, sarcastic remarks and go haunt someone else. I am personally tired of you. I am asking you once to not make another ignorant uneducated comment towards.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Sorry I have to post a comment about this little gem of an idea you so kindly decided to share with us.

"I would love to see if a bear would feel bad and not eat a human , somehow I doubt it."

Did you actually think that was some kind of enlightened thought? Are you KIDDING me. Let's just set aside the fact that we don't eat bears, (maybe people liek you do, I don't know) people eat pigs, chickens, and cows. All harmless may I mention, and none would eat you if given the opportunity. That aside, ARE YOU CRAZY?!?!?!? or really reallt dumb? Do you put bears and people on the same intellectual plane? A bear MAY harm you for reasons of territory or to protect it's young, it is built into their biology. If you're not smart enough to make a decision a bear can't then you really shouldn't be sharing your half baked ignorant ideas with others.
Posted by artC 9 years ago
artC
Hahahahahah. You never disappoint.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
How is it in any way okay to abort a baby , but not eat animals .. So tired of people that care more about animals than other human lives. When you go to the doctor and are anemic they will actually tell you to eat red meat. Meat is actually one of the 4 food groups. I would love to see if a bear would feel bad and not eat a human , somehow I doubt it.
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by cmrnprk07 8 years ago
cmrnprk07
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Vote Placed by Ineffablesquirrel 8 years ago
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