The Instigator
Miloh
Con (against)
Losing
13 Points
The Contender
Geekis_Khan
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

People who are obese by their own neglegence should not say how much they despise thin people.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/23/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 954 times Debate No: 3763
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (10)

 

Miloh

Con

Obese inviduals who are obese by their own laziness and negligence really have no business complaining about thin people who are fit and in shape. Please do not misunderstand. I understand that some heavy people can maintain a healthy weight and some cannot even help it. But is it really fair to beat down on normal sized people? You should not blame the person you envy because they are healthy and fit. It is not their fault. It is simply a feeble mind trying to express the fact that you let your mouth control most of the things you do rather than using sufficent sense and reasoning. If someone is overweight, and has done it by themselves, hates that it happened, and beats down on other people saying they hate them and wish they'd die? What is that? If you really want to do something about it stop whining and blaming other people and take responsibilty. It is a simple as picking up a twinkie
Geekis_Khan

Pro

Thank you for starting the debate.

So, we have a fat person. They are fat by their own doing, not by genetics.

This is established.

Now, we must reason why they're hating skinny people. What if they think that being fat is superior? What if they have different definitions of beauty? (Remember, during the Renaissance and before, more full-figured women were considered more attractive than skinny women.) What if they think of it that way? In that case, it's no different them then getting angry about ugly people. Now, that sounds kind of bad, but this is something everyone is guilty of at some point or another, whether they own up to it or not. If they have a different view of beauty and view skinny people as ugly, shouldn't they be able to express their opinions on what they view as physically unattractive? Other people do it all the time.

Furthermore, assuming that they they are speaking down at skinny people because of envy. But what if they don't like people with anorexia or bulimia? Now, true that talking bad about people with eating disorders seems mean, but then we're going to have to condemn half of America's comedians. Anorexia and bulimia are eating disorders just like obesity. And these disorders are all self-inflicted. the original source is from the victim themselves. So, if a fat person decides to talk bad about skinny people because of these eating disorders, it's no different than when a healthy person talks bad about people for being obese. In fact, it actually might be better. Why? Because an obese person has first-hand experience with an eating disorder. They know how dangerous it can be. They could, quite logically, despise other people with eating disorders, because they want people to be more responsible, since they know how bad it can get. It's like a drug addict not wanting someone to start using heroin, because he knows how bad it can get.

There's even further reasons why an obese individual should be able to speak out against skinny people. we would all like to live in a world where people aren't teased and put down, but that isn't so. A lot of obese people are ridiculed because of their weight. A lot for them try to lose weight when this happens, but still can't. and they keep getting teased. Now, their is only one natural reaction to this: resentment. If a group of people teases you every day, you're eventually going to hate them, and you're eventually going to speak about it. You should negate the resolution on this point, because here the "normal skinny people" are bringing it on themselves.

Finally, I give you the freedom of speech argument. Even if it's completely unjustified, even if what they're saying is completely stupid, they should have the right to say it. It's not hurting anyone for them to express their opinion (so long as they're not teasing anyone about it and as long as they're not endangering anyone else by doing so), so they're only making themselves look stupid by expressing an unfounded opinion. If someone wants to make a fool of themselves, let them. This will give us a good indication of who the stupid people are, and it will tell us who to put our confidences into. And even if you disagree with someone, you shouldn't want to keep them from expressing their opinion. For example, I disagree with you. However, I'm not saying that you shouldn't say what you want, I'm simply debating what you're saying. Freedom of speech and expression is one of the most valuable freedoms we have It gives us a plurality of ideas which is priceless. As Voltaire said, "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I have given you FOUR INDEPENDENT REASONS to vote CON. My opponent should have to successfully refute all of them. Otherwise, you default CON.

Good luck. :)
Debate Round No. 1
Miloh

Con

Of course any individual fat or skinny have every right to express their own opinions. No matter how childish their so called opinion might be. However if one who is obese were to say, "I hate any form of people who is skinner than me...as far as I'm concerned they can all go to hell." Which actually was an occurence that happened on Dr. Phil. An overweight man said that on the television. Let us take this young man. I do not believe that what he said was any form of intelligent opinion. It was an opinion yes, however it was not expressed in a way that could benefit his current situation. Let me be clear, this man was expressing the pent up anger he had within himself because he was envious. Perhaps he really did not hate the people that he envied, perhaps he only hated himself for getting himself in that position. Whatever this unfortunate man was feeling I do not know. But it is all a matter of what this one put out. He gave the image of weakness and sloth and when he did that it made me pity him less. Instead of letting out his anger that way mind you this man was at least in his thirties. He should have known better but unfortuately it isn't always so.

Please do not misunderstand, I understand that one cannot change the opinions of others. And you are quite correct when you say that even fit people can make fun. Of course and it is unfortunate. No one has the right to do such things. When I stated "normal" sized I meant it in the manner of just your average person. Say ....a person like yourself. You seem pretty fit yourself. Say you were a girl...about 5'8 and you weighed 130lbs. That would not be a bad weight at all for you if you. Being of that height it could help you hold your weight rather well. Now beign 130lbs isn't fat and it isn't really skinny it is simply just right. I spoke nothing of eating disorders. I only stated skinny or fit. Now when you look at a person who is of an average weight and you take an obese person...depending on just how big that person is they could look at a person with a little puppy fat and say..."oh you're just so skinny."

I remember learning about in the earlier times larger women being more desired, that may be true but you must know that times have changed. It all depends on what you like. In relationships some people like it some don't.

In matters of meaness I do not think a person skinny or fat should have any right to discriminate anyone against their image fat or skinny. But just because I say that it doesn't mean that I can change it. However I certainly do not like it and I will not like it for that matter. But I will not complain about it because whenever someone larger than I says something like that I simply ignore it. I refuse to condone such behavior.

If I were to give advice to an overweight girl or boy I would not judge them. I mean it's obvious their situation isn't good but their in it and it is easier to get out of it when your young because you lose the weight easier. So I would encourage them give them the best advice possible and tell them that even though it's hard you must go with a little hunger when you lose weight. You must just do it the old fashioned way. Eat but eat with self discipline and be smart about excersise and get as much encouragement as you can.

I shall await your response.
Geekis_Khan

Pro

I realize you didn't bring up eating disorders. I realize you didn't' bring up body image throughout the ages and what was considered beautiful. I was simply suggesting those to illustrate the plurality of possibilities that an obese individual could have in their resentment. You can't just point the finger to envy and count it off that way.

Ad the thing is you agreed with me. You said that a person has a right to express their opinion. In that line of thinking, I see nothing wrong with the gentleman you spoke of who talked about wanting skinny people to go to hell. It's his opinion. It doesn't matter whether or not I agree. it doesn't matter what emotions it actually evokes in me, whether it be anger, pity, or indifferences. It's his opinion. He has the right to express it.

Therefore, you must negate this resolution.
Debate Round No. 2
Miloh

Con

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to express his opinion. It is his natural right as it is everyone else's. But it still hurts people. He expressed it in a negative way that tears people down. In all technicality he had the right but in matters of self respect and morality he had no right to say it. When people say things like that it tears people down. It hurts them. If you want to talk morals then if a person has any sense of respect then they wouldn't have said that. He was stupid. Downright stupid. He sat there blubbering like a baby. He brought it upon himself. After saying that he cried. He knew he was wrong. His opinion was stupid. Sure he had a right to express it but it sure didn't help him lose any weight. It only served him in looking like a fool. A foolish opinion for a foolish man.

Opinions are great, but if a person can't say them without making fun, or degrading another human being then they should just shut up. Because you only make yourself look stupid and you others not like you. Opinions can be expressed anytime but it doesn't make them right.
Geekis_Khan

Pro

I see someone who has been ridiculed their entire life.

It is completely natural for them to have anger.

Whether it helps them lose weight or not.

Whether it hurts someone else or not.

Letting their anger out is something they should do.

Otherwise, it's just bottled up, and it only hurts them more.

When you know it's a stupid opinion and thatit's foolish, then why bother getting offended or hurt by this? Why not just let this individual let his anger out?
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
PRO means you support the resolution. The way you worded the resolution, you are arguing PRO. If you took out the "not", then you would be arguing CON.
Posted by Miloh 8 years ago
Miloh
If you would like. I'm sorry I'm new here and I just thought that if I put pro it would mean I'm encouraging what I'm against. I guess not though. But yes we can do that.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
Actually, you should vote PRO, apparently. I'm confused, because you're assigned to CON, but your intro was supporting the PRO. Should we just continue as though I'm debating CON?
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