The Instigator
HandsOff
Pro (for)
Winning
28 Points
The Contender
jacobgunter
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

People will typically vote for what they want versus what is right.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 897 times Debate No: 2527
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (10)

 

HandsOff

Pro

Liberals vote to have the government confiscate (legally steal) that which belongs to others and give it to those who did not earn it in the form of various programs like welfare, nationlized healthcare, etc. Conservative Republicans vote to prohibit two same-sex adults from voluntarily entering into an agreement they call marriage. T

These are examples of thing people will gladly have the governement do, but would not dare do themslelves. You wouldn't see a Democrat walking up to his nextdoor neighbor asking him for his wallet. You wouldn't see a Republican crash the gay wedding ceremony nextdoor in protest. That's because they know this is a free country, and people have the right to do what the want and keep what is theirs. But once in a voting booth, all bets are off. People typically will vote for what they want versus what is right.
jacobgunter

Con

I would like to start by saying that I personally agree with you, but I would like to argue against the resolution for the sake of arguing.

The main point that I will make today is that what people want is whats right in the US system.

James Madison, father of the constitution and later president of the US, disucsses in various essays in the federalist papers that people vote based on what they want. He says that this will create the competintion and factions that will drive the country. While it may seem morally or logically wrong, the will of the people based on their selfish impulse will help to even out the system, and to advocate the education and force the discussion of various topics.

We have to look to the fact that voting on selfish impulse will generally result in a just solution to various issues, at least within the AMerican system.

I have more arguments, but its been a long weekend, and Im way too tired. I will bring them up next speech.

Thanks again
Debate Round No. 1
HandsOff

Pro

Sounds like we agree, but you're happy with the fact that people vote on for what they want versus what is right. Good for you. You obviously have no fear of the socialist state that the mob rule we call democracy will eventually create. I'd sleep better at night if I adopted your attitude.

Let's just examine this effect. People are actually walking into voting booths and supporting policies they know are unjust. It has to be the anonymity. It's the same effect that takes over some people when they get behind the wheels of their cars. They do things they would never dare do if they were walking down the sidewalk. They cut you off, honk their horns, refuse to let you over when you turn on your blinker. It's like they think their car is a cloak of invisibility or something. It allows them to partake in what they would otherwise consider rude and embarrassing behavior.
jacobgunter

Con

You are also assuming that people will vote to steal from one another, or oppress one another. What about people that vote to limit governmental power for themselves. ie. Libertarians and Republicans vote for their best interests by voting to lower taxes, and thus keep their own money. This is also for the benefit of all.

Also, Libertarians and democrats vote to ensure the civil rights of the people because it best serves their own interests. It is also what you are calling the "right" thing.

You are also going off of the presumption that people vote to acquire money from one another. Why is it then that so many middle-class, upper-middle-class citizens vote for the democrats? They do so because they are doing what they think is right.

You are also assuming that what is right is less governmental power. Yet, there are no grounds for this. Europe worked very well while socialism was around. The Euro is more powerful then the dollar. Countries like China, where so much is controlled by the government, are some of the fastest growing nations.
Debate Round No. 2
HandsOff

Pro

"Libertarians and Republicans vote for their best interests by voting to lower taxes, and thus keep their own money."

These groups are voting for what is right, and the fact that it is in their best interest is incidental. They are not voting to take from another, but to keep what is rightfully theirs. That's the difference. I was a libertarian in college-- long before I had any money to protect. Who is taking from who is the question you need to ask. Many Republicans vote to inject their religious beliefs into government policies, thereby limiting (or taking) the freedoms of others. That is plain wrong, regardless of popularity. Some ideals of right and wrong are impervious to opinion. Stealing is wrong, regardless of whether a majority think the ends justify the means.

I can't help notice an implied fondness on you part of European countries and their socialism. I'm glad you have a safe haven to run to if the U.S. straightens up and becomes a great capitalist nation again. We true capitalists (almost said Americans) have nowhere to run once we get swallowed up by the socialists, who I beleive will soon be in the majority. By the way, the dollar is crashing in comparison to the Euro because we keep borrowing money to pay for programs and wars we can't afford.
jacobgunter

Con

K, first off, I am a libertarian, so I hate Europe.

Next, What determines what is right isnt necessarily what you may believe. They arent necessarily stealing, but rather trying to push for equality. They are also trying to help to protect and care for themselves, but more importantly their fellow citizens by voting for things like universal healthcare.

You also didnt address the middle and upper class people that vote for democrats or republicans and they selfishly strip the rights off others in both cases. They are doing what they believe is right, not necessarily what will best serve their own interests.

Thank you for this debate, Im sorry that I didnt make any huge arguments, but Ive been way too busy.

I do really hate arguing against my belief, but its good for me.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
I'm just saying that people vote to have the government do things they don't have the balls to do personally. Mostly because if they considered doing these things personally they would stop to see how absurd they are. Would a staight-laced republican really feel he had the right to bust down his neighbor's door, pull a bong out of his hand and haul him off to jail if he knew he was smoking pot? Probably not. And not because he's afraid, but because he knows it is none of his business whether his neighbor smokes pot. But once in the voting booth, he as no problem sending the government as his henchman to accomplish the same injustice.
Posted by FunkeeMonk91 9 years ago
FunkeeMonk91
But don't most people think what they're doing is right? For example, (ignoring the fact that your examples are huge generalizations) Liberals think that they are justified because they are helping the poor with welfare programs. Conservatives think that they are preserving the sacrament of marriage, something that is very holy to them.

I'm not justifying either claim, but the fact of the matter is, is that this is what people truly believe.
Posted by VenomousNinja 9 years ago
VenomousNinja
I thought you were talking about on debate.org...

My bad...
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