The Instigator
Xanxus
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Valtin
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

People with homosexual tendencies can get into Heaven

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Xanxus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/17/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 643 times Debate No: 52803
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Xanxus

Pro

This in relevance to the Christian Faith

i)Acceptance
ii)Opening Statements
iii)Rebuttals and Closing
Valtin

Con

I thank Pro for making this debate, In this debate I will establish that Gays or Homosexuals will not go to heaven according to Christendom, I await Pro's argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Xanxus

Pro

I would like to first off thank Vatlin for accepting this debate and helping us clear up this matter once and for all. I am personally a heterosexual male just for the record but let's see where this debate takes us.

I would like to argue that people will homosexual tendencies still have the possibility to enter into Heaven by God's authority. I know this may be an unpopular opinion but please allow me explain myself.

i) First let us assume that person in question has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his saviour, has exceptional faith, follows the two greatest commandments and the 10 commandments as well. He also seeks forgiveness when he sins and works hard to repent against those sins.

Let me define homosexual tendencies for the debate:

Homosexual tendencies refers to gays or homosexuals who have an attraction to the same sex but are not necessarily practicing homosexuals.

As we know the main problem with homosexuality is not only sexual design but fornication. In which I cast off the homosexual act no different from that of the heterosexual fornication plus the fault of improper sexual design.

By the act I am referring only to the act of sexual fornication not hugging, kissing or any other non- sexual forms of affection. Which can still be forms of gay attraction and affection but not fornication or sexual.

So to be clear I'm saying that if man were to engage in a non-sexual monogamous gay relationship while remaining Christian then he may enter the kingdom of heaven. I think that if the gay couple understood that they are not sexually designed for a sexual relationship, abstained from sexual behaviour offensive to the Lord and remained in a truly romantic relationship. This would involve bonding time. kissing ,hugging and all things affections non-sexual. Then if the all else is up to standard that the said gay person will enter into heaven.

In this relationship, there is no sodomy, no anal and no anything else sexual that gay people do. Kissing is allowed by abstaining from improper sexual contact while their hearts tell them differently. They show loyalty and love to their Lord while safekeeping their affections toward one another.

I would like to now hand the floor to my opponent, who will give us his opening statement. Thank You!
Valtin

Con

I wish you have put the definitions first, swiftly to my rebuttal.

Rebuttal 1:

"Homosexual tendencies refers to gays or homosexuals who have an attraction to the same sex but are not necessarily practicing homosexuals."

We conclude from this definition that they are indeed Gays/Homosexuals, but do not act upon their desires.

"So to be clear I'm saying that if man were to engage in a non-sexual monogamous gay relationship while remaining Christian then he may enter the kingdom of heaven. I think that if the gay couple understood that they are not sexually designed for a sexual relationship, abstained from sexual behaviour offensive to the Lord and remained in a truly romantic relationship. This would involve bonding time. kissing ,hugging and all things affections non-sexual. Then if the all else is up to standard that the said gay person will enter into heaven."

First this scenario is rare, I do not think as them being homosexuals will not engage in any sexual way, and they are in a relationship so this is very rare, I will show that they will act upon their desires:
1) they are in a relationship
2) they know eachother for a long time now
3) fondling begins
4) finally something happens, IF they have been trying to be in this non-sexual relationship in a long time.

Men cannot suppress the sexual needs for a long time, It is harmful "suppression as it is being taught in the modern society is harmful: they cause psychological suffering and at least some of the reasons behind the teaching have no valid reason at all. Sex in itself is natural and thus ok - there could hardly be any argument about that. " [1]


Arugment 1:

As from the definition that Pro gave we know that they are Homosexuals/Gays, therefore any Homosexual cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, as from the following verse:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB): "9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."

Clearly even if they do not act upon their desires they are bound not to go to heaven.

That concludes my argument.
Debate Round No. 2
Xanxus

Pro

Thank you for your eye opening insights now to the rebuttals for the sake of the debate. I also apologize about the definitions, I will note that for further debates. Thank you!

Rebuttal 1

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." -1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB):

This letter was written by the apostle Paul making this not a direct command from God but an idea from man. However one can say the Holy Spirit was working through Paul to say which will perfect sense. I mean look at it! He's not lying it's the truth. However! Is the homosexual Paul is speaking of the same homosexual being used in this example. In that do I mean are they practicing homosexuals.

In Romans 1:26-27, Paul also says

"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."

What if we took away the shameless acts. I'm not talking about your average gay here. I'm talking about a devout gay who is gay but wants to make it right with the Lord. Who wishes to escape the fires of damnation and be his Creator forever. He may have indulged himself in the past for all we know but as for now he abstains from all homosexual activity and only his initial attraction is left. (I feel so weird talking about this) .

No sex only feelings and romantic courtship. I'm just talking about gay men but lesbians as well. I honestly think it may work better toward them but I can be wrong.

Counter Rebuttal

i) "First this scenario is rare, I do not think as them being homosexuals will not engage in any sexual way, and they are in a relationship so this is very rare..."

Yes you're correct in saying that this is in fact indeed a very not only rare but specific relationship but the road to salvation is very narrow and few are those who enter if I am not mistaken. I never did say it would be easy for a homosexual to enter heaven just possible. If I am correct then it would still be exceedingly difficult for someone with homosexual tendencies to enter heaven.

That is all. The opponent may continue with any further rebuttals and a conclusion.
Valtin

Con

Rebuttal 2:
"This letter was written by the apostle Paul making this not a direct command from God but an idea from man. However one can say the Holy Spirit was working through Paul to say which will perfect sense."

Pro is obviously contradicting the Bible, as in 2 Timothy 3:16 (NASB) "16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;"
Therefore this is indeed inspired, that is what the Bible says.

"I mean look at it! He's not lying it's the truth. However! Is the homosexual Paul is speaking of the same homosexual being used in this example. In that do I mean are they practicing homosexuals."

This comment is baseless, because Paul included all homosexual and had not made a distinction between the ones who act upon their desires,etc.


Romans 1:26-27 :
But still Paul has said in Corinthians that all homosexuals will not enter heaven, you have no evidence that Gays or Homosexuals will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, as said in the Bible, no Gay/homosexual will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, no exceptions.


Counter Rebuttal 1:

"Yes you're correct in saying that this is in fact indeed a very not only rare but specific relationship but the road to salvation is very narrow and few are those who enter if I am not mistaken. I never did say it would be easy for a homosexual to enter heaven just possible. If I am correct then it would still be exceedingly difficult for someone with homosexual tendencies to enter heaven."

I have proven that no Homosexual will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, the Bible in many points says that Homosexuals will not go to heaven, if they act upon their desires they should be put to death.



Conclusion:
The Bible is strict on the issue of Homosexuality and explicitly shows that Gays are not going to inherit eternal life nor Heaven.

I thank Pro for making this debate, and good luck to him in the future, I conclude my last statements.

Please know that I have nothing against Gays/Homosexuals, I am just showing that Christendom demonstrates that Homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven nor eternal life.

Debate Round No. 3
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2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Geogeer 3 years ago
Geogeer
XanxusValtinTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro legitimately defines that damnation is action based. He does open a door to Con in his first argument that hugging and kissing is okay so long as it does not proceed further. Con misses the obvious opportunity to bring in Christ's teaching on if you even look at a woman with lust you are guilty of adultery. Con does go on to show that this behaviour has the possibility to grow beyond Pro's confines. Con then goes on to Corinthians 6 to show that all homosexuals go to hell. Pro goes on to give additional context to Corinthians 6 with Romans 1. Pro further accepts that it is difficult for gay people to abstain from sex. Finally Con attempts to say that Romans 1 supports his contention, but in my opinion fails to do so. Con, put up a good debate, however, I believe that pro's arguments were sufficient to win the arguments because in the final round con failed to disprove Romans 1.
Vote Placed by saboosa 3 years ago
saboosa
XanxusValtinTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Both had good sources and had good content, but in the end, I still agree with the pro side.