The Instigator
nonprophet
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
64bithuman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Personal Bankruptcy is worth doing

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Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: Select Winner
Started: 5/25/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 630 times Debate No: 55392
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

nonprophet

Pro

First round is for acceptance only
NO TEENAGERS.
64bithuman

Con

I accept the debate and wait for a response.
Debate Round No. 1
nonprophet

Pro

Personal bankruptcy was designed to relieve a person of unsecured debt. Credit cards are unsecured debt because there is no collateral used to secure the loan.
Most people are brought up to believe that not paying back a loan is "stealing". That's not the case with credit cards for 2 reasons:
1. The money you "borrow" from a credit card is not real money from a bank. The money gets created by the bank out of thin air, so anything you "pay back" is 100% profit for the bank.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com...
2. The crazy interest rates of 20% or higher are really stealing from the public. If a person puts their money in the bank they get 1% interest, but if they borrow in a credit card they pay 20%.

The ONLY "negative" or consequence of declaring bankruptcy is that it will be on your record. This is not as bad as it sounds.
1. Because after 7 years, nobody will care and 7 years is not a long time.
2. During those 7 years, you will probably not need credit.
3. Even if you did need credit during those 7 years it wouldn't be impossible to get it.

If you build up your credit score, you will get many offers for credit cards. It's possible to get up to $50,000 or more in credit cards. just by paying the minimum balance

If you are a college student, your student loans can not be forgiven with bankruptcy. However, you can pay back your student loans with credit cards.
The same is true if you owe the IRS. You can't get rid of what you owe to the IRS with bankruptcy. but you can pay the IRS off with credit cards.
If you have $50,000 is student loans or $50,000 you owe to the IRS, it would be very simple to just pay them off with credit cards and declare bankruptcy. Starting life with a zero balance rather than -$50,000 is much better.
If no bankruptcy, in 20 years you would have the money paid back and be at zero or with bankruptcy, you could save money and be at +$50,000 or more due to interest. That's worth it!

If you don't have college debt or IRS debt, it would still be worth spending the $50,000. You can buy new car, fly around the world, get new clothes and electronic devices.
If you declare bankruptcy, they can't take any of that away from you. The car should last you 7 years so you wouldn't need a car loan again. Instead of spending 20 years to pay the $50,000 back, you can start at zero with
$50,000 worth of things and SAVE money instead of paying back credit cards.

Not only is it worth it, You'd be crazy NOT to do it!
You get $50,000 for free and in return you get a mark on your record that nobody will care about after 7 years.
No brainier!
64bithuman

Con

Personal Bankruptcy is one of the worst choices a person can make. To be fair and honest, I"ll say there are benefits, much in the same way doing heroin feels great"for a while"then things start to go downhill.

Benefits:
You will be protected from the majority of a wide array of debt collectors.
You will, on a chapter 13 plan, be able to pay back mortgage, etc., etc., at a chosen rate.

Consequences:
Bankruptcy will destroy your reputation. By law, bankruptcy is on the public record. People all around you will find out about it. Many of these people will not be kind, including people in your circle of friends, or even your family. You can bet it will be truly stressful.

First off, your credit will be absolutely destroyed for some time. Credit companies will make life hell. Banks and the like won"t give out mortgages, car loans, etc., so good luck buying things.

It will become more difficult to get a good job, being that many employers nowadays check credit information before hiring.

Future landlords will decline you, because they will check your credit.

Your insurance may very well take a leap into the heavens, and, if you discharged medical debts, your health is at risk, because hospitals and the like won"t want to treat you.

If you discharge a mortgage or a car loan, you may lost them to the bank.

Aside from those reasons above, you must calculate how you will feel, as a person, who cheated the system, which is what you are doing. You are a failure and a liar in some respects.

Unfortunately, many folks are forced into bankruptcy, but to choose to declare bankruptcy to worm your way out of paying off debt"that is not okay. That is how the U.S. got itself into its current state.
Debate Round No. 2
nonprophet

Pro

It's obvious that by opponent has never declared bankruptcy and doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

I am speaking from experience.
Chapter 13 is for business. The debate is about PERSONAL bankruptcy (chapter 7)
"Bankruptcy will destroy your reputation. By law, bankruptcy is on the public record. People all around you will find out about it. Many of these people will not be kind, including people in your circle of friends, or even your family. You can bet it will be truly stressful."

OK I'll admit my credit score went rock bottom after the first year after bankruptcy, but I didn't need any credit, so I didn't care. No stress at all. Friends and family didn't even know.,,,and so what if they did. It didn't hurt them.

"First off, your credit will be absolutely destroyed for some time. Credit companies will make life hell. Banks and the like won"t give out mortgages, car loans, etc., so good luck buying things."

I already had a new car (for free) so I didn't need a car loan. I put down $100 on a "pre-paid" credit card and kept that in good standing, which pretty much repaired my credit score in less than a year.
In only 2 years after my bankruptcy, I got a Fannie May mortgage and got a house with only $10,000 down.
After 7 years my bankruptcy was too old for anyone to care about and I refinanced my house from 8%
to 3.5%. That's better than some people without a bankruptcy.


"It will become more difficult to get a good job, being that many employers nowadays check credit information before hiring."
If you have a career and and a good work reputation, you'll get plenty of work. Companies care more about whether you can do the job or not.

"Future landlords will decline you, because they will check your credit."
Who needs a landlord when you can own your own home!?

"Your insurance may very well take a leap into the heavens, and, if you discharged medical debts, your health is at risk, because hospitals and the like won"t want to treat you."
LOL...my insurance was just fine and every emergency room, by law, can't turn you away from treatment.

"If you discharge a mortgage or a car loan, you may lost them to the bank."
With chapter 7 you can keep your home and your car.

"Aside from those reasons above, you must calculate how you will feel, as a person, who cheated the system, which is what you are doing. You are a failure and a liar in some respects."

I didn't cheat anybody. I "borrowed" money that didn't even exist. The bank made the money out of thin air and lent it to me. I'm not the bad guy. Getting $50,000 for free is far from a failure.


Summary: I spent $50,000 on trips, a new car, clothes, restaurants and electronic equipment. I had the time of my life and the worst thing that happened was that I had to use a pre-paid credit card for a year. I kept everything and got a mortgage 2 years later. It didn't hurt my job, my insurance or my friendships. I would do it again in a heartbeat and so should everybody else. It's legal and it's free money the bank created just for you. It stimulates the economy and gets new money circulated into the system, and doesn't hurt the banks.


64bithuman

Con

Okay, I think you are misinformed. Chapter 13 is not only for businesses, rather, Chapter 11 is only for businesses.
Chapter 7: "A bankruptcy proceeding in which a company stops all operations and goes completely out of business. A trustee is appointed to liquidate (sell) the company's assets, and the money is used to pay off debt."

Chapter 13: "U.S. bankruptcy proceeding in which the debtor undertakes a reorganization of his or her finances under the supervision and approval of the courts. As part of the reorganization, the debtor must submit and follow through with a plan to repay outstanding creditors within three to five years."

Chapter 11: "a form of bankruptcy that involves a reorganization of a debtor's business affairs and assets. It is generally filed by corporations which require time to restructure their debts."

http://www.investopedia.com...
http://www.investopedia.com...
http://www.investopedia.com...
http://credit.about.com...

As for your bizarre notion: "It's legal and it's free money the bank created just for you. It stimulates the economy and gets new money circulated into the system, and doesn't hurt the banks."

It is not "free money". You took money and exchanged it for goods and/or services. Do you honestly think that money just appears? It wasn"t "created" any more than the digital number on your bank machine shows how much money you have in your account. Money isn"t kept in bank vaults anymore, you"re right. It"s a digital notation, but when you click withdraw $60, you still get real money. I"d appreciate it if you didn"t insult my intelligence.

"With chapter 7 you can keep your home and your car."

No, under C. 7, your assets are liquidated to repay a debt. That is the definition. However, under C. 7, in personal bankruptcy, you are allowed to keep certain things called "Exempt Property". This law is more lenient in some states. There is always a chance you could lose both your car and your house, depending on their value"and your state.

The bottom line is this: By declaring bankruptcy, you are damaging your chances at success. You are contributing to the debt; to the current state of American economics in a deeply negative way. Even if you emerge scott-free, which is very rare, you are screwing someone over to do it. There is no free lunch, as I like to say. Its capitalism, you work for what you have. You are not given it. Bankruptcy will ruin you and your reputation, I"ve seen it before. It"s not worth it.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Carthage 2 years ago
Carthage
*facepalm*
No votes have been placed for this debate.