The Instigator
hcar911
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
OLEKSANDRA
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Persons convicted of a pedophilic crime ought to be treated and not incarcerated in all instances

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
OLEKSANDRA
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/21/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 476 times Debate No: 67420
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

hcar911

Pro

1)Person"s convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be treated and incarcerated in the case of rape and/or murder of a child.
2)Pedophilia is the preferential attraction to prepubescent children. (Ames & Houston, 1990; Feierman, 1990; Okami & Goldberg, 1992).
3)There is a distinct difference between pedophiles who rape and/or murder a child and pedophiles who are attracted to children but never physically touch a child.
4)Physical acts include molestation, rape, and/or other non-consensual sexual acts.
5)Pedophiles who have not physically touched a child should not be incarcerated.
6)Pedophiles who have not committed a physical act fall under a different category and can still undergo some form of treatment.
7)Treatment is good for pedophiles that have not engaged in a physical act.
8)Pedophiles who rape and/or murder a child have engaged in a physical act and are a danger to other children in the community.
9)Those who commit a physical sexual act must be removed from society to prevent them from committing a similar act.
10)Violent physical acts against prepubescent children are wrong.
11)Violent physical sexual acts are heinous crimes and thus a person who commits such acts deserves to be incarcerated.
12)Treatment is not enough to prevent a pedophile, who has already acted out their desires, from committing a similar act.
13)Treatment is good for pedophiles who have not acted out their desires physically.
14)Fear of stigma, and the resulting discrimination, discourages pedophiles from getting the help they need to address their sexual attractions.
15)In its most overt and egregious form, stigma results in outright discrimination and violence towards pedophiles
16)"Pedophiles" are not accepted in the community because of their sexual attraction towards minors.
17)Incarceration for a pedophile would only be appropriate when the person involved in a pedophilic crime has physically touched an individual
18)Incarceration of non-violent pedophiles, such as those charged with child pornography or standing close to a school, would hamper their possible treatment and increase the chance of violence and stigma.
19)The increased chance of stigma and violence is bad.
20)Several studies also suggest that incarceration leads to further deviance if an offender is incarcerated for a nonviolent offense and is not offered rehabilitative services.
21)Studies show that an individual who has been charged with a sexual offense of any sort is heavily discriminated and mistreated while incarcerated.
22)Mistreatment of a person who has not committed a physical act is wrong.
23)Having thoughts, although still wrong, is better than engaging in physical acts.
24)There is no way to fully guarantee the protection of people who commit pedophilic crimes while they are incarcerated.
25)Incarceration of non-violent pedophiles only increases the chances to engage in violent acts if they are released.
26)Although incarcerating the most serious of cases may lead to violence against those individuals, the benefits of treating the non-violent cases and preventing harm against the non-violent cases outweighs the decision of incarceration for the more serious cases.
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Therefore, pedophiles ought to be treated and incarcerated unless the crime involves the rape and/or murder of a child.

Non-Controversial
1-5, 8-11, 14-16, 21-24

Controversial
3, 6, 12-15, 22,
OLEKSANDRA

Con

1)Persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated and not treated in all instances
2)Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger.
3)Pedophilic crimes include: child sexual abuse, statutory rape, offenses involving pornography of children, child grooming with sexual nature, stalking, and indecent exposure which committed by an adult.
4) It"s not what you are but what you actually do physically what matters.
5) A child is unable truly understand in what is going on during a sexual act.
6) Children unable truly agree to a sexual act with an adult.
7) An act is not considered to be a rape when: a sexual act is consensual, which means that both people who are old enough to consent, have the capacity to consent, and both agreed to the sexual contact.
8) Children are defenseless and powerless against an adult.
9) Any sexual act which involves a child is considered to be a rape.
10) Incarceration of pedophiles prevents his/her further assault on children.
11) Recidivism extremely high among child molesters
12) Once convicted, Pedophiles should not be given the chance to strike again
13) When someone has crossed that boundary between Desire & Action, they are eligible for all the consequences deemed.
14) Prison is the least and most unsafe place to put the pedophiles at this moment which is unfortunate for them.
15) But not all paedophiles are child molesters, and vice versa: by no means every paedophile act on his impulses, and many people who sexually abuse children are not exclusively or primarily sexually attracted to them.
16) Whether sexually attracted or not is not important, the act itself must be punished.
17) Argument that a treatment is the most correct form of dealing with pedophiles are incorrect.
18) If pedophilia is inborn mental illness, then it cannot be cured, although there may be some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment which is learned, and therefore can be unlearned.
19) By placing pedophiles into treatments rather than incarceration will bring the level of violence down in the prison world.
20) Pedophiles who belong to the "classic type," and are attracted only to prepubescent children, usually under age 11, often don't change their focus.
21) Sexual preferences of adult cannot be changed by therapy, only temporarily suppressed.
22) All degrees of pedophilia are treatable but not cureable with chemicals and Psychological treatment
23) Chemicals are only repressing urges of a pedophile and not changing their sexual interests from children to adults.
24) Chemical treatments from pedophilia are not all good for the person who is treated.
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Therefore persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated and not treated in all instances.
Non-Controversial
4-13, 15-17, 19, 23

Controversial:
18,20,21,25,
Debate Round No. 1
hcar911

Pro

1)Your premise #13 is in agreement with my argument that when the boundary of "Desire" has led to "Action" then the pedophile is entitled to all consequences. My argument explicitly mentions that I am in favor of incarceration for all pedophiles that have cross the line into action.
2)There is distinct difference between engaging in a particular behavior and thinking about.
3)It is good if the pedophile has not engaged in such a behavior but has only though about committing the act and is still in time to get treatment.
4)Your premise #14 is not taking into consideration the safety of pedophiles while they are incarcerated.
5)It is important to consider the safety of everyone who enters the criminal justice system. To justify the poor treatment of an individual because of the acts they commit makes us just bad as them.
6)Also, to deny protection to pedophiles while they are incarcerated is to go against federal Prison Rape Elimination Act standards, which protect all inmates from possible harm.
7)Your premise #15 states that all child molesters are not pedophiles and vice versa. You have not made a clear distinction between either one.
8)I agree with your premise #16, that an act itself must be punished through incarceration. However, an act that has not been committed should not be punished without first exploring the possibility of treatment.
9)To not offer an individual possible treatment when no act has been committed is to deny them the possibility for rehabilitation.
10)Prison is not the best place to treat pedophiles who have not committed a physical act of violence and who might be willing to take advantage of treatment instead of incarceration.
11)Several reports highlight the lack of resources available in prison, including adequately trained health care staff (Roguski & Chauvel 2009).
12)The current mental health care staff would have to dedicate time to the pedophiles entering prisons because of their "mental" health conditions (Roguski & Chauvel 2009).
13)To divert prison resources to pedophiles that could have been treated in another mental health facility that is not prison is counterproductive.
14)Premise #18 brings up the issue of pedophilia being classified as an inborn mental illness; there have been studies which argue that pedophiliac behavior can also be the result of biological factors which include a persons inability to produce certain hormones.
15)We cannot hold these individuals accountable in the same way we would hold a regular criminal accountable when biological factors play a role in their inability to stop themselves from committing physical acts of violence.
16)The same logic has been used for young adults who have committed other offenses since the brain development research clearly shows that the part of the brain that processes consequential thinking does not fully develop until age 25. Based on this research youth are now looked at as different from adults.
17)The biological aspects of pedophiles must be taken into account in the same way. We cannot hold double standards when it comes to proven research about the need to consider biological factors when dealing with individuals who could/have committed an offense.
18)Your premise #19 also states that placing pedophiles into treatment rather than incarceration will bring violence in the prison world down. If incarceration will lead to increased violence then we are creating an unstable environment for both pedophiles and regular inmates. This is irrational.
19)Therefore, pedophiles ought to be treated and incarcerated only if the crime involves the rape and/or murder of a child.
OLEKSANDRA

Con

1)As previously mentioned, treatment does not guarantee that the pedophile who commits a pedophilic crime (and those who don"t commit a physical act itself) will be stopped through any form of treatment.
2)For example a Chemical castration, which is a form of treatment for pedophiles, uses drug called a Depo-Provera.
3)Depo-Provera that given to man, act on the brain to inhabit hormones that stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone, may have adverse effects of angering a criminal.
4)Anger cause increase in his violent tendencies which lead to additional sexual abuse.
5)Depo-Provera injection must be mandatory and monitored otherwise its effect are reversible.
6)Continuous medication and monitoring extremely costly for only a temporary result.
7)Depo-Provera in some instances cause side-effects such as: diabetes, blood cloths.
8)There is insufficient evidence to prove the effectiveness of treatment for pedophiles.
9)Treatment of pedophiles is costly, long-termed and the outcome is uncertain, until another sexual offense has been committed to a child by him/her.
10)Our medical knowledge, the science is not ready to successfully treat and cure all pedophiles permanently. More research needed- In 1987 survey of countries in three states, 80% of convicted child molesters were sentenced to probation, with no prison time served if treatment accepted as a condition of probation.
11)There are many negative consequences of getting a treatment and not the imprisonment for pedophiles
12)Getting back into the society and building the support from people who will trust and help a convicted pedophile once he re-enters could be very frustrating.
13)But if pedophiles would not be incarcerated, than it would emotionally further upset the parents of the molested child.
14)Failure to punish pedophiles shows failure in our justice system which might push afamily member to take "justice" into his/her hand and commit revenge.
15)Not seeing an imprisonment for a Pedophilic act on a child by an adult will be seen as unpunished act.
16)An act which goes unpunished considered to be accepted by society as a legal act and not a wrongful act.
17)By inducing good (treatment) for bad (pedophilic act) makes the pedophile a victim rather than the child.
18)Victimization of a pedophile is degrading to the molested child itself and its family.
19)Sexual molestation violates the child's emerging self-identity and can be a long-term psychological impact on the child.
20)A child Psychiatrist visits will be costly for the parents and time consuming.
21)There are different degrees of pedophilia: those who actually commit physical sexualoffenses and those people which don"t do bullying, no coercion, no abuse of power and get sexual pleasure by only watching prepubescent children photos.
22)Whether raped or only sexually molested a child is not important, the act itself of sexual Molestation is, so it must be punished and the guilty locked away.
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Therefore persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated and not treated in all
instances.
Debate Round No. 2
hcar911

Pro

1)Your premise #10 is clearly stating that our medical knowledge is not ready to successfully treat and cure all pedophiles permanently. However, we do have research that clearly describes the adverse effects of imprisonment on any individual.
2)Again, I agree that incarcerating the most serious of offenders is a must. However, it is illogical to incarcerate someone who might be considered a pedophile who has not committed a physical act and not offer that individual any form of treatment.
3)Treatment should also apply to individuals who commit a physical act; even behind prison they might still be able to benefit from some sort of services.
4)To offer treatment behind bars for this particular population of offenders would be impossible since other inmates would target them and they would be unable to fully participate in their treatment because of the fear that they will be attacked.
5)Treatment is a right that every offender is entitled to regardless of the offense. If there is not life sentence attached to the sentence then there still remains the possibility of assisting an individual through other forms of treatment.
6)Also, the fear of them possibly being attacked might also cause pedophiles to lash out against other individuals in prison for self-defense. This will increase the violence within the prison and risk the safety of other inmates along with the correctional officers.
7)Since prisons are already understaffed and under resourced it would only hamper the ability of correctional officers to maintain order while in prison and effectively carry out their duties.
8)You state that not punishing the pedophile may cause the family to take justice in their own hands because they will feel that the justice system has "failed."
9)To allow a pedophile to undergo harsh treatment and stigmatization on top of having been deprived of their liberty would be barbaric.
10)It is possible to consider other models of treatment that will hold the pedophile accountable while at the same time working with the victim.
11)There have been studies in other countries where "restorative justice" models of treatment have been used to work with individuals who commit sexual offenses.
12)Restorative justice views crime not as a violation of a law, which requires punishment, but as harm to people and relationships and, as the term suggests, seeks to redress or restore that harm (Van Ness & Strong, 1997).
13)Restorative or Reintegrative approaches are usually based on the following core aims: engaging with offenders to help them appreciate the consequences of their actions; encouraging appropriate forms of reparation by offenders towards their victim or the wider community; seeking reconciliation between the victim and offender where this is desirable; and the reintegration of the offender (Zehr, 1990; Braithwaite, 1999).
14)Although the use of restorative schemes with sexual offences is not widespread, a few isolated initiatives have developed which are based on reintegrative or restorative principles. In South Australia, for example, young people charged with sexual offences, who admit their behaviour, are diverted from court processes and instead participate in a family conference (Daly, 2006).
15)Restorative justice processes which involve the abuser"s family and the community can meet the affective or expressive need for censure in sexual offences cases.
16)The current criminal justice system does little to hold offenders accountable and address entrenched forms of offending behavior, restorative justice seeks genuine engagement with offenders to help them acknowledge the consequences of their actions; it focuses on the empowerment of victims in a supportive environment in which the victim can make clear to the offender the effects of the abuse on them; that by offering constructive rather than purely penal solutions.
17)If there is an alternative to the punitive response of incarceration it should be pursued. If the goal is to advance justice and to punish the pedophile then it is important that the pedophile who does not commit a physical sexual act be offered to treatment to help him recognize that what he did was wrong outside of prison.
18)It is also equally important to offer treatment to those pedophiles who commit physical acts in order to provide them with an opportunity to acknowledge their crime and possible prevent them from committing a future offense through enhanced supervision and supportive services.
19)Treatment in general should be offered to all pedophiles wherever possible.
20)However, those who have already committed a physical act must be removed from society.
21)Therefore, pedophiles ought to be treated and incarcerated unless the crime involves the rape and/or murder of a child
OLEKSANDRA

Con

1)There are those pedophiles who didn"t committed a physical act on a child because they didn"t had a chance to get into a situation where he/she would be alone with a unattended child or was stopped before committing the actual physical act by law enforcement agent.
2)Yes, pedophiles who have not committed a physical act can undergo treatment but if they don"t want to or don"t care for getting a one than it is a failed mission to begin with.
3)Pumping pedophiles with chemical pills against his/her or forcing them to attend treatment circles will does not make them see that pedophilic acts are wrong. Its only suppresses their urges temporarily.
4)According to a reading "Protect child, not pedophile" The Courier Mail (Australia), July 9, 2008 Wednesday, FEATURES; Pg. 31, 773 words, Peter Faris states: "GAMH research shows Pedophilia is a biologically rooted attraction that does not change"".
5)Whether or not the actual physical act was committed is not sufficient evidence in determining that treatment will be effective.

6)When pedophile is released after a forceful chemical treatment it will raise the crime level in the society. When chemical suppressions and/or other forms of treatment stop, there is a chance that it will make the pedophilic urges stronger and perhaps even more violent than before.
7)Incarceration is appropriate to all those pedophiles who don"t care in getting medical treatment in order to suppress their urges and those who simply just don"t care in what happens to their own future lives.
8)In your initial argument you state that:" Individuals who have been charged with a sexual offense of any sort are heavily discriminated and mistreated while incarcerated." Does this means that outside the prison they are not to be discriminated and mistreated? Or that forceful change in their life style after the release is not mistreatment? If we should feel sorry for them inside the prison walls than why not feel sorry for them outside the prison walls?
9)In your initial argument you also state that:" No one chooses to be emotionally and sexually attracted to children or adolescents". In a way you compare pedophiles to Gay people whose sexual orientation preferences cannot be changed by any form of treatment.
10) You also stated "Incarceration does nothing to solve the problem for more serious cases". I disagree because by incarceration you stop further pedophilic crimes by that person which lowers the crime volume in the society.
11)By incarceration of pedophiles we also lower the possible revengeful acts by the victims or their family members.
12) Furthermore, "restorative justice" sounds like a good alternative it is still nothing more than a model which hasn"t been fully executed with this particular population in the United States.
13) If you can show this model to effective with this particular population in the United States then we might be able to consider such an alternative. However, as of now, this model has not be implemented and thus incarceration is the only liable option.
14)The current research shows that there is no way to guarantee that any other form of treatment is effective on pedophiles.
15)Therefore, persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated and not treated in all instances.
Debate Round No. 3
hcar911

Pro

agree, that it would be waste of resources to force a possible pedophile to undergo treatment if he/she is unwilling. However, you did not discount the possibility of offering services to those who ARE willing.
2)We should not push for a purely punitive model that assumes that all pedophiles will be unwilling to change their behavior.
3)You stated, "Pedophilia is biologically rooted attraction that does not change." If we are keeping in mind the biological factors that lead to some of this pedophilic behavior then why are we putting the blame on the individual pedophile when clearly nature made this person commit such acts?
4)Many of the pedophiles that enter the criminal justice system end up in the Special Housing Unit (SHU) in order to ensure their "safety." However, life in the SHU is very much the same as being in solitary confinement.
5)Several studies have shown that Solitary confinement can cause individuals to develop mental health issues if they have not already had them when they ended up in solitary.
6)This suggests that incarceration is not the most viable option if we are truly worried about the safety of the community since it is likely that the pedophiles who commit the less serious offenses may be released back to the community with other mental health issues on top of their pedophilia.
7)I also do not want pedophiles to be pumped with chemicals in order to correct their behavior; unless a full proven method has been developed and tested.
8)However, since it seems that we both agree that incarceration (i.e. removal from society) is an adequate response for pedophiles that commit a physical act against a minor it might be good to consider the possibility of developing a separate mental health facility for pedophiles that would both incapacitate them and offer them treatment.
9)The development of a facility specially made for pedophiles would allow us to both remove pedophiles from society while giving those who are willing the opportunity to address their pedophilic problems.
10)A separate facility would also prevent the possibility of comingling between normal offenders and pedophiles.
11)A separate facility may enhance the ability of offering treatment to pedophiles and encourage other pedophiles in the facility to engage in the treatment as well.
12)Separating the offenders would also decrease the violence against the pedophiles and would lower violence in other correctional facilities.
13)Removing the pedophiles while still offering them treatment would also prevent the families from taking justice into their own hands.
14)If a separate mental health facility can be developed to address the issues of pedophiles who are willing to engage in treatment (who can remain in the community with supervision) and at the same time hold those who pose a threat to the community then we are able to provide a solution to both of our concerns.
15)This is good for the victim, community, pedophile, and the overall system.
16)Therefore, pedophiles ought to be treated and incarcerated unless the crime involves the rape and/or murder of a child
OLEKSANDRA

Con

1)It is definitely important to consider the biological makeup of pedophiles.
2)However, since they have no control over those urges because of they are born with those urges then they MUST be removed from society.
3)I continue to argue that incarceration is the only possible option for pedophiles who engage in sexual against minor or any other individual without consent since there are no other methods that have proven to be effective solutions to pedophilia.
4)Although I can recognize the possible harsh treatment that a pedophile may undergo while incarcerated this is a sacrifice that must be made for the rest of society to be safe.
5)At this time, I am not familiar with a facility that specially made for pedophiles that deals with serious offenders while offering services to those who have pedophilic ideas but have not acted out on them.
6)If a separate facility is made for this particular population that can both serve to incarcerate and treat a pedophile then we might be able to consider the possibility of treatment for the cases that involved no physical contact. However, until such facility is created we cannot risk the safety of the community by having those people in the community.
7)You have also not made it clear how these people who commit actual physical acts would be punished in such a facility.
8)The purpose of incarceration is to punish an individual for wrongdoing.
9)To "remove someone from society" without offering a clear punishment will not teach the pedophile anything.
10)Therefore, Therefore, persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated and not treated in all instances.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
hcar911OLEKSANDRATied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: These two seemed to be arguing different stances. Also, the resolution was very unclear, and pro seemed to be arguing for treated and incarceration in some circumstances (NOT treat and NOT incarcerated in ALL instances)....and con seemed to be trying to prove NOT treated along with incarceration....so con wins because he seemed to be more on topic to negate the true resolution.