The Instigator
kathlyn.salazar
Con (against)
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The Contender
joseph.ramirez
Pro (for)
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Persons convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be treated and not incarcerated in all instances

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 460 times Debate No: 67451
Debate Rounds (4)
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kathlyn.salazar

Con

1.Pedophilic crimes are crimes involving sexual attraction for a child under the age of 14 by an adult.

2.Those convicted of pedophilic crimes are judged to be responsible for their actions.

3.Pedophilic crimes involving confronting a child or obtaining materials such as sexually exploitative images of a child requires reason.

4.By providing treatment to these individuals, there is an assumption that they all have mental illness or that there is some sort of defect in their mental state.

5.Pedophiles, though there may be some that may be identified as having a mental illness, are still capable of stopping themselves from committing pedophilic crimes.

6.There are pedophiles that are able to prevent any contact with children and are able to control their urges.

7.It is not the case that all those who are convicted of pedophilic crimes are pedophiles.

8.There is no proof that all those convicted of pedophilic crimes fall into the category of those who require treatment.

9.If all individuals convicted of pedophilic crimes are to receive treatment, then there is an assumption that all of them have mental illnesses.

10.Should they, those convicted of pedophilic crimes, all receive treatment then we give those who do not suffer from mental illnesses an easy way out of their crimes.

11.In addition to giving an easier punishment for their crimes, those who commit pedophilic crimes are all called "pedophiles" when not all of them are.

12.Giving treatment to those who are convicted of a pedophilic crime create a stigma that all pedophiles are, not only criminals, but also mentally unstable.

13.Giving lesser punishment to those who commit pedophilic crimes under the impression that they suffer from mental illness, creating a stigma against pedophiles, and assuming that all those who are convicted of pedophilic crimes are bad.

14.Other positive consequences of treatment such as treatment for those who are truly suffering from mental illness and support for those who truly want to prevent themselves from committing another crime are not acceptable in light of giving lesser punishment to those who commit pedophilic crimes under the impression that they suffer from mental illness, creating a stigma against pedophiles, and assuming that all those who are convicted of pedophilic crimes.

15.Incarcerating those who are convicted of pedophilic crimes, they are taken out of society.

16.Incarceration also prevents a stigma [that pedophiles are mentally ill] against pedophiles who are not convicted and those who do not commit pedophilic crimes.

17.A downfall of incarceration is the lack of support for those who are truly suffering from mental illnesses and the chance that those who are incarcerated may commit crimes again once they are released.

18.Taking persons who are convicted of a pedophilic crime out of society and preventing a stigma from being created against a percentage of a population are good.

19.Other negative consequences of incarceration such as the lack of support for those who are truly suffering from mental illnesses and recidivism are acceptance in light of taking persons who are convicted of a pedophilic crime out of society and preventing a stigma from being created against a percentage of a population.

20.Persons convicted of a pedophilic crime ought to be incarcerated in all instances.

Non-Controversial:
1.2.3.4.9. 15. 17.

Controversial:
5.6.11. There are pedophiles that do not commit crimes. Pedophilia is defined as the love or attraction for a child " this, however, does not imply a criminal act. There are pedophiles that are able to stop themselves from acting out their urges. There are healthy pedophiles that choose to isolate themselves rather than risk the safety of others or their own.
7.8. One does not necessarily have to identify as a pedophile to be convicted of a pedophilic crime. One can be a designer of a website and be convicted of a pedophilic crime for posting kiddie-porn. There are also those who are convicted of pedophilic crimes because of aggravating and mitigating circumstances that may be used against them " this does not necessarily make them a pedophile nor does this make them guilty of the crime but is convicted due to the evidences.
10. By giving persons convicted of a pedophilic crime treatment, there is a chance that at least one person, who does not suffer from a mental illness, will receive treatment when he/she needs to be incarcerated and separated from society. By giving them all treatment, there is at least one criminal convicted of a pedophilic crime that will get a punishment that is less harsh than what they truly deserve.
12. 16. Providing treatment to someone assumes that there is something wrong with that individual and that there is a treatment for his or her condition. The problem is that there are pedophiles that are in full control of their condition who do not fall under those who are considered mentally unstable.
joseph.ramirez

Pro

(1) Pedophilia is sexual attraction/desire for a child under the age of 14 by either an adult or another child.
(2) A disorder is a physical or mental condition that is not normal or healthy.
(3). Pedophilia is a mental disorder.
(4) By providing treatment mental health professionals are able to determine whether pedophiles are likely to engage in future acts of sexual desires for children.
(5) Persons convicted of pedophilic crimes are judged and rarely helped.
(6) To treat a pedophile we must provide continuously medical care in a facility, which can help treat disorder.
(7) If incarcerated pedophile right to treatment would be taken away.
(8) Incarceration will not change the mental state of the pedophile.
(9) Any person that has a sexual attraction for children is suffering from an illness.
(10) Pedophile will continue to have their desire if not treated and if incarcerated.
(11) Providing treatment allows us to provide a solution.
(12). Incarceration only holds the pedophile for the crime he convicted.
(13) Incarceration will increase desire for children, as he/she is held with adults.
(14) If incarcerated one is only taken pedophile out of society causing pedophile mental state to worsen.
(15) If provided with treatment pedophile will control his desire for children.
(16) Controlling desire for children is good.
(17) Other negative consequences of providing treatment such spending a lot of time are acceptable in the light of controlling desire for children.
(19) Person convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be treated and not incarcerated in all instances.

Non-controversial:
Pedophilia is sexual attraction/desire for a child under the age of 14 by either an adult or another child.
By providing treatment mental health professionals are able to determine whether pedophiles are likely to engage in future acts of sexual desires for children.
A disorder is a physical or mental condition that is not normal or healthy.

Controversial:

(3). Pedophilia is a mental disorder. A mental disorder is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life. Mental illness refers to a wide range of mental disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. As written by Laura J. Martin, MD she states "The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has included pedophilia in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders since 1968". One who decides to commit pedophilic crime does not have the state of mind a normal person would have therefore not allowing one to function in society.

(4) By providing treatment mental health professionals are able to determine whether pedophiles are likely to engage in future acts of sexual desires for children. Treatment is a session of medical care or the administration of a dose of medicine given to a patient for an illness or injury. Therapy may help them manage sexual feelings and not act on them while medicine could be given to reduce sexual desires. Psychologist will evaluate whether pedophile is able to re-enter society without committing a pedophilic crime. Several psychological test will be given to determine weather pedophile is able to re-enter society.

(6) To treat a pedophile we have to provide continuously medical care in a facility, which can help treat disorder. If continues medical care is not provided proper treatment will not be given allowing pedophile to still have desires. David Prescott a therapist said, "Critics of the treatment point out that treatment doesn't work if someone drops out of therapy, or is kicked out." Therefore if full cycle of treatment is not given pedophile will continue to have sexual desire for children. In comparison, if one choses to treat a person who has asthma proper treatment would have to be given if proper treatment is not fully given person will continue to have sickness.

(7) If incarcerated pedophile right to treatment would be taken away. If incarcerated pedophile would be taken away from society and put into a cell where people will sexually abuse pedophile worsening mental state. A therapist by the name of David Prescott from Minnesota agrees with giving courts the power to confine rapists and other sex offenders who have finished their prison sentences but are deemed too dangerous to re-enter the community. If given treatment while incarcerated person would have to adapt to a new society causing an imbalance prior to being released. Pedophile incarcerated will focus on being free and not being treated.

(9) Any person that has a sexual attraction for children is suffering from an illness. An illness by definition is an unhealthy condition of mind and body. A person having a sexual attraction for children is an unhealthy condition of the mind and should seek treatment. Having an illness is having a mental disorder.

(13) Incarceration would only increase desire for children, as he/she is held with adults.
(14) If incarcerated one is only taken pedophile out of society causing pedophile mental state to worsen. If taken out of society pedophile would have to adapt to a different kind of society. The constant change of society will not allow pedophile to determine the difference from the normal lifestyle. The constant change will only confuse pedophile not allowing him/her to be treated. Treatment will required to

(15) If provided with treatment pedophile will control his desire for children. Some diagnoses can be made by asking co-operative persons about the their behaviors such as what they find erotically appealing and how difficult they feel about trying to resist sexual temptations. These questions can help establish diagnostic criteria for sexual sadism. Treatment will be provided along with medicine. The three types of medicine most often use on pedophile are injecting female hormones to help reduce desires.
Debate Round No. 1
kathlyn.salazar

Con

(3). A pedophile is able to function well into society should he or she decides not to commit the crime. Those individuals, who are not necessarily pedophiles, that commit pedophilic crimes, are functioning members of society. They were able to control their actions before, why not now. Pedophilia is not a psychosis. Pedophilia is an attraction and a sexual preference. It is not controlled because one cannot necessarily control who and what they are attracted to.

(4) The ability to determine whether or not a pedophile will engage in future acts of sexual desires for children are not reliable. There are individuals who vow celibacy and are able to control their urges through discipline. However, somewhere down the line, there will be one thing that may set off their urge and will put them back in the game. Managing sexual feelings may be helpful but it does not necessarily guarantee prevention. As to the medication that may reduce sexual desires, there is a limitation to how long the body will take before it becomes immune to the drug. After that, it will no longer have a suppressing effect. It is either another medication is given or no medication is given.
(6) Continuous treatment for pedophiles will cost money. Considering they are incarcerated, that money will be taken out of the taxpayers" pockets. For how long will these treatments last? There are no reassurance that these treatments will work in the first place. Should the individual get kicked out or dropped out of the therapy, what"s the alternative punishment?

(7) Their right to treatment is not taken away. Therapists are available outside the justice system " people who are suicidal and depressed have them. Rehabilitation would be a privilege considering the justice system is punishing them for a crime that they have committed. Pedophiles, like other prisoners, have the ability to protect themselves. As in a society, it is the survival of the fittest and unfortunately, they are the prey.

(9) It is not necessarily the case that these individuals are suffering from an illness. They are perfectly functioning individuals who are able to hold jobs and take care of themselves. The only problem is that they are acting upon desires that are not approved upon by society and therefore, they should be punished for their wrongdoings.

(13) The purpose of a punishment is to relay a message that one"s actions was wrong and that the punishment that they are receiving is somehow equated with that wrongdoing according to the justice system. Should the punishment successfully relay its message, then the individual should understand that the pedophilic crime that he/she committed was wrong and that he/she should not commit again.

(14) The person incarcerated is understood to have full knowledge of how society works " exactly why he/she is being punished in the first place. The only wrong mentality they have is their belief that it is okay to commit pedophilic crimes. The different lifestyle would allow them to have better structure. If given proper time, then there should not be inappropriate change in mental state.
joseph.ramirez

Pro

(1) Pedophilia is a sexual attraction for a child. A pedophile is able to control urges but the question will be for how long? Does the pedophile have to hide for the rest of his life? A Pedophile who chooses to hide from others to self-control desires is suffering from an illness that requires treatment. Segregating himself from everyone will worsen mental state and help develop an explosive disorder. Study have shown choosing to stay at home alone could increase chance of premature death, hiding or being incarcerated will provide a temporary fix and never get to the actual root of the problem. Psychological repression can lead one to question oneself consistently and eventually lead to suicide thoughts.
(2) Person being arrested for posting kitty porn on a website is being arrested for being thought to have some sexual attraction to children and is label a pedophile due to child being under age. Treatment will not be needed if determine to have no relation to a pedophilia crime. The charge for posting child pornography would be a misdemeanor for possession of the obscene image.
(3) An investigation would have to be conducted to determine the cause of a pedophilia crime. The action alone of having sexual desires is a sickness and requires treatment. If focusing on just the punishment it demonstrates wanting to get even rather then trying to help and get to the root of the problem. If incarcerated and is not a mental illness person will continue to have a problem. If Person with mental illness is arrested and not treated how do we determine he/she will not commit the same crime.
(4) Being in control does not mean one realizes what one is doing to be right or wrong. An example would be a psychopath, one can tell him his doing of killing a person is wrong but to him/her and in their mental state is normal. Pedophile could be fully aware he has a sexual desire for children and to him/her is normal.
Debate Round No. 2
kathlyn.salazar

Con

(1) There are ways in which one can go around. If he/she is capable enough, there are cultures that are not opposed to adult/child relationships. In addition, suppression of desires is not about hiding. It is about being able to control one"s self in able to avoid harming others. There are knowledge that such actions are not permitted therefore, one should do as much as possible to prevent oneself from committing such actions.

(2) Possession of child pornography and those who are owners of such websites are still under the umbrella of persons convicted of pedophilic crimes " this is the distinction of those who are pedophiles and those who are not pedophiles, therefore, people convicted of pedophilic crimes ought to be incarcerated.

(3) Sexual desires are innate in all human beings. Excessive sexual desires may be considered sickness but the simple desire is not. The topic at hand has already past the investigative stage. We are not at the sentencing phase. Therefore, we are only determining whether or not to send the person convicted of the crime to rehab or to prison. Punishment is a method of the law. Revenge is the method to get even. Torture is excessive punishment to get even. Not all those who have convicted of pedophilic crimes have illnesses and deserve to be treated " and not all of them are pedophiles.

(4) A psychopath may not understand what is morally right or wrong but a psychopath certainly knows what is legally right and wrong. All are subject to legal doctrines that are not innate in our minds. The US is one of the countries that make it illegal to commit pedophilic crimes " not requiring those convicted of it to know the morality of the matter.
joseph.ramirez

Pro

(3) A pedophile might function in society but the urge to commit the crime will always be present. In addition to what you stated one who decides to commit a pedophilic crime does not have the state of mind a normal person would have therefore not allowing one to function in society. A pedophile has to have a sexual desire over children in order to commit the crime. Pedophilia has always existed and will always exist. In the past people would rape their own children and the family would keep it a secret in order not to shame the family"s name. Pedophilia is a psychosis, if a pedophile commits the crime he or she would not have any remorse to what was done and will not care if the action committed was legally right or legally wrong; they just want to fulfill their sexual desire. Therefore a person convicted of a pedophilic crime should be treated and not incarcerated.

(4) Medication could be given in higher doses; as well there will also be other alternatives for medicines. Not all treatment is guarantee to work for the first part in order to be successful the person will have to accept he/she needs help. Alcoholics and drug addicts are treated everyday and within time of treatment they are successful. If doctors and psychologist are not able to determine future acts of sexual desires person convicted of pedophilia crime will be re-treated.
(6) The money that would originally be used to incarcerate the person will instead be used for treatment. Depending on what the suspect is being charge for whether it"s a felony or a misdemeanor the cost could be higher to incarcerate than it would be to provide treatment. Treatment will vary; different people may require different remedies depending on the evaluation done on the pedophile. Treatment will be provided by a facility that would not allow pedophiles to drop out of therapy. The alternative to a punishment would be a highly focused treatment, which will involve higher supervision.

(7) Therapist are available outside of the justice system and not inside of the justice system, If person incarcerated wants to seek treatment within jail the treatment will not be received. A person who has committed a pedophilic crime will carry around a shame, the humiliation of having to tell someone their crime will not allow him/her to communicate or want to ask for help. A pedophile will not confess his crime in fear of being raped in jail or even killed. In some cases a pedophile can become too dangerous in jail and might not be deemed well for the society.

(9) Most people suffering from an illness are able to hold a job and take care of one-self. An illness may not be seen at surface but will start to develop at its root. If in fact is not an illness such desires can still be treated by proper treatment.

(13) As he/she is held with adults, the justice system takes away the person"s freedom and limits their chance of opportunities. Although they are in jail the inmates will have to face multiple challenges like being raped, beaten and a possible chance of being killed. If the punishment is not deemed successful, time and money would be wasted and other children"s lives would be at risk.

(14) He/she is being arrested because we have laws that work against those convicted of a pedophilic crime. He/she will be kept in a facility surrounded by convicts. The society of jail that one belief will structure a person is an environment where people get hurt, raped and even killed. Such thing can structure one to develop aggressive behavior and a cause a person to live their life in a fear that someone is going to attack or attempt to murder.
Debate Round No. 3
kathlyn.salazar

Con

(3) My previous statements have been that these individuals who have committed pedophilic crimes are functioning members of society and that not all of them may be labeled as pedophiles. I did not claim that the urge would leave their system. However, with their own will, and with the understanding that such actions are wrong, then this will prevent them from acting upon those urges. Sexual desires toward children are not necessary in order to be convicted of pedophilic crimes. This is because of the imperfect justice system that we have and the categories in which we have under the species of "pedophilic crimes."
Pedophiles have always existed because pedophiles are types of lovers. They are not a particular type of criminals such as murderers. Raping one"s child is not the same as loving an individual who is in an age that is below 14. First, rape itself is a different matter than sexual attraction. Pedophilia is a form of attraction towards another individual and is not a psychosis. If a man were attracted to a woman and acts upon those feelings without breaking any laws, then it is permissible. The problem with pedophiles is that society looks down to their attraction to children and therefore, their actions are not permitted. As for the lack of remorse of the pedophiles, one will have to provide more evidence in order to argue such a strong claim.

(4) Giving medication in higher doses does not necessarily change the outcome of the situation " if anything, there are times when it makes it worse or the individual becomes immune to it. You"re right. Not all treatments work and the person have to agree to it. These people have to understand that their own persona will be altered and that supposedly, something is wrong with them " without actual proof except that society thinks that their actions are inappropriate. Let"s do the same thing for murderers maybe they can change their minds about killing people. There seems to be a lot of "ifs"" in this argument.
(6) The thought of having less expenditure for the state is very tempting. However, the fact that there is no guaranteed result is not at all pleasant. The good thing about incarceration is that despite the amount of money spent by the state, it is being able to convey the message of the punishment. Those who are incarcerated are being given time in order to realize the wrongs of their actions. They are able to be isolated from society and are deprived of the liberties that those outside have the pleasure of having. Also, how will one know the different needs of those convicted of pedophilic crimes if they don"t even know what is wrong with them? If the treatment is not allowing those who are in it to drop out, they are forcing them to do something they do not want to do; they can simply not participate (passive participation). This type of forced treatment does not solve anything because one of the key elements of treatment is that the participant wants to be treated.

(7) So the treatments will take place outside of the justice system. Those convicted of pedophilic crimes will be trusted to go about their lives and simply attend treatment sessions. May I ask what happens to those who do not want to attend treatment? You are saying that the only repercussion of their crime is humiliation and fear"that does not seem to be such a triumph for the justice system. Nor does it seem like a very effective punishment for those who have been convicted of a crime.

(13) This can also be said for treatment. There is no guarantee that treatment is effective nor that there is something that needs to be treated. So why bother? At least with incarceration they are able to be given time away from society and have some liberties taken away as a punishment for the wrongs that they have done.

(14) Treatment creates the assumption that the individual"s mental status is not stable and their persona is not right. They are given the impression that they themselves are not the proper human being and they in order to properly function in society, they have to change. You are simply reversing the process that you claim incarceration is doing.
joseph.ramirez

Pro

(1)Suppression by definition means to hold in or restrain, by holding one"s desire he/she can develop what is called an explosive disorder " Suppression will eventually reveal itself. Restraining desires may not be seen on surface but will stay alive at root and within time it will eventually grow. In addition suppressing one"s desires will only give it power over one-self and eventually lead to failure. Restraining desires will give us a temporary fix instead of providing us with a solution. Therefore focusing on suppressing desires will eventually lead to a repeated offense if not treated and incarcerated.

(2)If owners of such websites are under the umbrella of person"s convicted of pedophilic crime then police officers would have to determine a distinction among a pedophile and person being convicted. Police Officers will have to conduct investigations, find evidence and evaluate mental state to determine if one is sexually attracted to children. If no evidence or not enough evidence is obtain to prove person is a pedophile then he/she should be arrested for distribution of kitty porn. Therefore if evidence is obtained then person should be treated.

(3)A psychopath like a pedophile may know what is legally right or wrong but the thought of being incarcerated does not register until the action occurs. Pedophiles don"t think of the law while committing the acts. A pedophile is concern with fulfilling his/her sexual desire. The morality of it will matter at the time of conviction. If person is not aware of the morality he/she require treatment.
Debate Round No. 4
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