The Instigator
PeterToshIsKing
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Blade-of-Truth
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

Peter Tosh is better than Bob Marley

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Blade-of-Truth
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2014 Category: Music
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,898 times Debate No: 58488
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (5)

 

PeterToshIsKing

Pro

I believe Peter Tosh is a better Reggae artist than Bob Marley for unbiased reasons.
Blade-of-Truth

Con

I believe Bob Marley is a better Reggae artist than Peter Tosh.

My opponent has stated that he believes his position due to unbiased reasons. The BOP is on my opponent to show how his reasons, when stated, are unbiased. My opponent must also overcome any arguments and rebuttals I make, in regards to my efforts of showing how Bob Marley is a better Reggae artist than Peter Tosh.

I will show how Bob Marley is a better Reggae artist by utilizing record sales, general public reception, music industry awards and accomplishments including peak chart positions.

I believe everyone can agree that debates such as these fall into the realm of subjectivity. I will strive, while utilizing the resources I've listed above, to show the audience why Bob Marley is a better Reggae artist than Peter Tosh.

My opponent, as Pro, may begin his arguments first. I wish my opponent the best of luck, and look forward to an entertaining and challenging debate.
Debate Round No. 1
PeterToshIsKing

Pro

The first argument I will make is that Peter Tosh was better musically. During his childhood Peter taught himself guitar by just watching a man on the street play. He can also play keyboard. In the beginning the Wailers were a vocalist group until Peter taught Bob and Bunny how to play guitar. Peter Tosh can also be argued the better songwriter since he wrote lots of The Wailers original music and Bob Marley's best music ( according to Rolling Stone Magazine) were the ones co-written with or written by Peter Tosh ex. Get Up Stand Up. While Peter Tosh didn't have Marley's commercial success he was known worldwide during and after his tour with The Rolling Stones. One more point I would like to make is popularity does not mean quality hence Justin Beiber and Lil Wayne (two musicians considered by many terrible in their gene yet sold millions and receive awards.
Blade-of-Truth

Con

I thank Peter Tosh for his opening round.

Arguments

I. Awards and Honors

One simple way to determine if a man is better than another would be to look towards the awards and honors that the men have accumulated throughout their life and even afterwards. I will list a basic set of awards and honors that Bob Marley has obtained and will then show whether Peter Tosh amassed the same amount or even more. If he hasn't, there is no way that one can objectively say Peter Tosh is better than Bob Marley in terms of awards and honors.

Bob Marley)

1976: Band of the Year (Rolling Stone).

June 1978: Awarded the Peace Medal of the Third World from the United Nations.

February 1981: Awarded Jamaica's third highest honour, the Jamaican Order of Merit.

1992: Won Q Award for best Reissue/Compilation record.

March 1994: Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

1999: Album of the Century for Exodus by Time Magazine.

February 2001: A star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

February 2001: Awarded Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award.

2001: Grammy nomination forBest Pop Collaboration with Vocals (from "The Best Man" soundtrack) for "Turn Your Lights Down Low".

2002: Grammy nomination forBest Music Video, Long Form for "Rebel Music - The Bob Marley Story

2004: Rolling Stone ranked him No.11 on their list of the 100 Greatest Artists of All Time.

"One Love" named song of the millennium by BBC.

Voted as one of the greatest lyricists of all time by a BBC poll.

2005: Won posthumous Achievement Award, Mobo Awards.

2006: A blue plaque was unveiled at his first UK residence in Ridgmount Gardens, London, dedicated to him by Nubian Jak community trust and supported by Her Majesty's Foreign Office.

In 2006, the State of New York renamed a portion of Church Avenue from Remsen Avenue to East 98th Street in the East Flatbush section of Brooklyn "Bob Marley Boulevard".

In 2008, a statue of Marley was inaugurated in Banatski Sokolac, Serbia.

2010: Catch a Fire inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame (Reggae Album).

Sources

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[2] http://www.aceshowbiz.com...

[3] http://385170063516607276.weebly.com...

Peter Tosh)

1976: Band of the Year (Rolling Stone).

1977: Granted the keys to the city of Atlanta, Georgia.

1988: Awarded a Grammy Music Award for Best Reggae Album for No Nuclear War (1987).

2012: Awarded Jamaica's third highest honour, the Jamaican Order of Merit. (30 years after Marley)

*Every other honor or award I found related to him had to do with the entire band known as Bob Marley & The Wailers, before Peter Tosh left the group. I included one in this list that I also included under Bob Marley.

Sources

[1] http://jamaica-gleaner.com...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[3] http://www.allmusic.com...

It is clear that Bob Marley has amassed a much greater amount of honors and awards throughout his life and even afterwards, when compared to the honors and awards earned by Peter Tosh during his life and afterwards. It's clear that Bob Marley far surpasses Peter Tosh in this regard.

II. Album sales


You might notice that I left out album sales from the lists above. I wanted these statistics to speak for themselves. This list includes multiple charts, so while the numbers seem exaggerated, it is only due to the album being recognized on more than one chart. The website where I obtained these numbers are shared in the sources section below.

Total number of Billboard Albums:

Peter Tosh - 13 / Bob Marley - 125

Total number of Billboard Singles:

Peter Tosh - 3 / Bob Marley - 17

Total number of Albums & Singles that reached the #1 position:

Peter Tosh - 0 / Bob Marley - 27

Even if we subtract the albums and singles that were put under Bob Marley's name that Peter Tosh worked on, the fact remains that Bob Marley was the main contributing artist, hence why such sites as the source of these statistics place the albums and singles under the most-appropriate artist in which those songs are recognized under or attributed to.

Sources

[1] http://www.allmusic.com...

[2] http://www.allmusic.com...

III. Solo Careers

No-one can deny that Peter Tosh's contributions to Bob Marley & The Wailers, before he left in 1974, was instrumental in making the success of the band. In reality though, once he left, him and Bob Marley had vastly different experiences in terms of critical success. Bob Marley went on to amass a net worth of roughly $130 Million dollars. [1] Peter Tosh went on to amass a net worth of roughly $3 Million dollars. [2]

Furthermore, an excerpt in a wikipedia article, of all places, actually explains perfectly the difference between the two in terms of their post-wailers solo careers:

"Mystic Man (1979), and Wanted Dread and Alive (1981) followed, released on the Rolling Stones' own record label. Tosh tried to gain some mainstream success while keeping his militant views, but was largely unsuccessful, especially compared to Marley's achievements." [3]

Arguably, the only major revival of his career that actually occurred post-wailers was in 1987 when his last album won a Grammy award. Other than that, Bob Marley surpassed him on all fronts. Once again, Bob Marley is better than Peter Tosh, this time in regards to solo careers.

Sources

[1] http://www.celebritynetworth.com...

[2] http://www.celebritynetworth.com...

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Rebuttals

I. "Peter Tosh was better musically."

My opponent attempts to justify this claim by saying that he taught Bob Marley how to play guitar and taught himself a couple instruments. The issue I have with this is that Bob Marley was already also musically inclined. My opponent himself said Bob Marley was a vocalist before learning guitar, this is a feat accomplished by someone already musically inclined, otherwise he wouldn't have been a vocalist.

Furthermore, Bob Marley learned the guitar didn't he? In that sense, he was just as good musically as Peter Tosh. Perhaps if he didn't have the capacity to learn then it'd be a different case. For me though, it seems like the only difference here is the age in which each musician actually learned to play. It's also noteworthy that it wasn't Bob's place to play the main guitar, never was. Perhaps if that was Bob's main ambition, musically, he would have learned it at a younger age.

As you can see, my opponents justification is nothing more than a difference in exposure and personal ambition. In no way does it justify the claim that Peter Tosh is better musically.

II. "Peter Tosh is a better Song-writer."

This possibly stands as one minor factor when comparing the overall betterness of Peter Tosh to Bob Marley. Pro needs to list every song which was attributed to Bob Marley that were co-written by Peter Tosh and show that those songs outnumber the songs written or performed by Bob Marley solely or with other writers. Even then, this is but one minor factor when comparing the two.

III. My opponent concedes,

to the fact that Bob Marley met greater commercial success. When considering the term 'better' in this comparative natured resolution, commercial success is a major factor. By conceding this point, my opponent already fails to maintain his burden of proving that Peter Tosh is better than Bob Marley. Keep in mind, this debate is not in a specific category but in general. Overall, my opponent is failing to uphold is burden.

IV. "Popularity does not mean Quality."

Quality is dependent on the subjective nature of individual taste. What one man might find to be quality music, another might not. This is why I have presented chart positions, sales, honors, awards, and solo career success as evidence for Bob Marley being better than Peter Tosh. Please expand on Quality if this point is to hold any ground.
Debate Round No. 2
PeterToshIsKing

Pro

PeterToshIsKing forfeited this round.
Blade-of-Truth

Con

My opponent has forfeited the final round.

As Pro, he has an obligation to uphold his burden. He has failed to do so because of this forfeit.

I have shown via record sales, general reception, financial success, post-wailers success, and several other means that Peter Tosh is not better than Bob Marley.

Additionally, because my opponent forfeited, I extend all arguments and rebuttals as they currently stand unchallenged.

I thank my opponent for starting this thought-provoking debate, and am glad that I could serve as the knight who defended the honor of the late and great Bob Marley.

Thank you, once more.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
PeterToshIsKingBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by GodChoosesLife 3 years ago
GodChoosesLife
PeterToshIsKingBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round but neglected to give his BoP while con gave his and also included sources to his argument.
Vote Placed by ESocialBookworm 3 years ago
ESocialBookworm
PeterToshIsKingBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Splenic_Warrior 3 years ago
Splenic_Warrior
PeterToshIsKingBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
PeterToshIsKingBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: ff and powerful argument + evidence from con