The Instigator
Witty11
Pro (for)
Winning
46 Points
The Contender
Pote
Con (against)
Losing
38 Points

Ping Pong is More of a Sport than Golf

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2009 Category: Sports
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,217 times Debate No: 10319
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (16)

 

Witty11

Pro

Ping Pong is a very physically demanding sport and takes more skill and endurance than golf. Ping Pong takes Hand Eye coordination and is also physically stressful to the body where golf on the other hand is a sport that any one can accomplish with some what success. A golf Ball is a stationary object that you have to hit with an oversize club , where as in Ping Pong the ball is always moving.
Pote

Con

Thanks for the debate, good luck and have fun.

Negative case:

Definition:
Sport-noun: 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. (1)
Noun: The part of speech that names a person, place, thing, or idea. In sentences, nouns generally function as subjects or as objects. (2)
Adjective: A part of speech that describes a noun or pronoun. (3)

Contention one: Nouns are not qualitative.
Nouns are people, places, things, or ideas. If something falls under the category of being a noun, it is on the same level of being the aforementioned noun as every other noun that is the aforementioned noun. No sport can be "more of a sport" than another sport. Arguing that one sport is "more of a sport" would be like arguing that one sentence is more of a sentence than another sentence. A sport is the definition of a sport, therefore nothing may be more of a sport than a sport. My opponent agrees that "Ping Pong is a very physically demanding SPORT..." and "golf on the other hand is a SPORT" then they agree that both Ping Pong and golf are sports. If both are sports, and nothing can be more of a sport than a sport, then they are equal sports.

Contention two: Golf is a more difficult sport to consistently win at.
a) Sports are "often of a competitive nature", which means that the goal of the sport is to win.
b) Ping pong directly sets two opponents (or four) against each other, and 'points' are made when an opponent makes an error that include such things as: "Allowing the ball to bounce on one's own side more than once. Double hitting the ball. Allowing the ball to strike anything other than the racket. Causing the ball not to bounce on the opponent's half."(4) The player (or team) that reaches a point threshold first in considered the winner.
c) Golf also directly sets opponents against each other, however, the number of opponents is normally much higher than the number of opponents in Ping Pong. (5) Naturally, the more opponents there are, the harder it is for any one player to consistently win. Also, golf courses are not nearly as controlled as Ping Pong tables, and it is therefore easier for variables to randomly cause a loss/victory. Golfers must not only beat their opponents, as is the sole task of Ping Pong players, but they must also beat random variables.

Affirmation's case: My opponent did not define any terms, so as of now my definitions are the only definitions usable in this debate.

My opponent's first claim is that "Ping Pong is a very physically demanding sport and takes more skill and endurance than golf."
Golf takes more skill than Ping Pong because the distance that a golf ball must be hit far exceeds the distance that a Ping Pong ball must be hit, and the golf ball must not only be hit far, it must be hit far with great accuracy. Sending a ball of roughly equal shape and size a farther distance with the same accuracy is inherently more skillful.
Golf also requires more endurance than Ping Pong. Golf requires more strength than Ping Pong and therefore requires more endurance on a second by second basis.

My opponent's second claim is that "Ping Pong takes Hand Eye coordination and is also physically stressful to the body where golf on the other hand is a sport that any one can accomplish with some what success.
This is a comparison of two very unlike things. My opponent compares two requirements of Ping Pong to the level of accomplishment that "any one" can succeed in. "any one" could also succeed in Ping Pong, for example: I beat my 3 year old next door neighbor because she could not return any of my serves.
Golf also requires Hand Eye coordination and golf is more physically stressful to the body. Golf requires more strength because the distance that the golf ball is forced to travel is greater than the distance that the Ping Pong ball is forced to travel, which requires more force. More force expenditure from a body=more physically stressful to the body.

My opponent's last claim is that " A golf Ball is a stationary object that you have to hit with an oversize club , where as in Ping Pong the ball is always moving."
I concede that a golf ball is stationary until it is hit and that a Ping Pong ball is generally not stationary until it is hit.
However, I do not see how hitting a moving object a very short distance is in any way more skillful, physically stressful or "more of a sport"

(1)-http://dictionary.reference.com...
(2)-http://dictionary.reference.com...
(3)-http://dictionary.reference.com...
(4)-http://en.wikipedia.org...
(5)-http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
Witty11

Pro

Mr. Pote I am an eighth grader from Kansas and have had no formal debate class or any class for that matter so I will try my hardest to be formal and give you an opposing case (this is also my first debate ever) so here we go.

My opponent gives the definition of a sport and says that "If both are sports, and nothing can be more of a sport than a sport, then they are equal sports." I agree with this and will not oppose this statement.

Contention two:(c) "Golf also directly sets opponents against each other, however, the number of opponents is normally much higher than the number of opponents in Ping Pong." (5) "Naturally, the more opponents there are, the harder it is for any one player to consistently win." Golf is a game played in tournaments most of the time (unless you are playing a single game which is not how the professionals play) Ping Pong is also a sport that is played in tournaments so therefore there can be just as many opponents in a ping pong tournament as a golf tournament. if a tournament in golf consists of 25 people and a ping pong tournament consists of 25 people, ping pong is actually the harder game to consistently when at because there are more chances for mistakes because you will have to play more than just one game but multiple games to be the winner of the tournament.

"Also, golf courses are not nearly as controlled as Ping Pong tables, and it is therefore easier for variables to randomly cause a loss/victory. Golfers must not only beat their opponents, as is the sole task of Ping Pong players, but they must also beat random variables." golf does have more variables than ping pong but there are also variables in ping pong such as paddles(size and weight of paddles), balls(weight of balls), table(what tables are made of), ect. Generally is golf not played on nice days with little wind?

http://www.golflink.com...
http://www.usatt.org...

"Golf takes more skill than Ping Pong because the distance that a golf ball must be hit far exceeds the distance that a Ping Pong ball must be hit, and the golf ball must not only be hit far, it must be hit far with great accuracy. Sending a ball of roughly equal shape and size a farther distance with the same accuracy is inherently more skillful."

SKILL-competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity

Skill is not defined by the distance hit but the accuracy of the ball hit so that is what I would like to zero in on. It takes more skill to hit a ping pong ball in the exact spot that will make your opponent to miss than it does to hit a golf ball in the general vicinity of something on a huge golf course. Lets compare the size of one hole to the size of a tennis table. My opponent states that the balls are of about the same size and equal in shape. That just means that you have to hit a bigger ball (in comparison to the playing space) in a smaller space and more accurate at that. Also you have to hit a heavier ball with a heavier club so the distance is irrelevant.

"This is a comparison of two very unlike things. My opponent compares two requirements of Ping Pong to the level of accomplishment that "any one" can succeed in. "any one" could also succeed in Ping Pong, for example: I beat my 3 year old next door neighbor because she could not return any of my serves" I agree these are two different things

"Golf also requires Hand Eye coordination and golf is more physically stressful to the body. Golf requires more strength because the distance that the golf ball is forced to travel is greater than the distance that the Ping Pong ball is forced to travel, which requires more force. More force expenditure from a body=more physically stressful to the body."
In ping pong you must move around constantly to keep a ball in play in golf on the other hand you move to the tee and swing then jump in the golf court and ride to where the ball is that is not very physical at all. I disagree you must hit a golf ball with equal force as you do a ping pong ball because.
F=M*A M=115 grams A=78 m times a equals 8.97 Newton's - this is for a golf ball
F=M*A M= 77 grams A=1.875 m times a equals 144.375 - this is for ping pong
scientifically by your standards more force is required for ping pong so the statement of mine saying "Ping Pong takes Hand Eye coordination and is also physically stressful to the body" is correct! That does not include the constant motion either.

http://www.streetdirectory.com...
http://www.ajdesigner.com...
http://golf.about.com...
http://hypertextbook.com...
http://www.jayandwanda.com...

"I concede that a golf ball is stationary until it is hit and that a Ping Pong ball is generally not stationary until it is hit.
However, I do not see how hitting a moving object a very short distance is in any way more skillful, physically stressful or "more of a sport""
Once again I agree that is no more of a sport than golf but also once again the size of the playing field determines accuracy which is the definition of skill. In every type of action it is harder to hit a moving object. take hunting for example it is easier to hit a deer that does not know you are there to shoot him than it does to kill it as it is running away.

http://dictionary.reference.com...
Pote

Con

Thanks for the prompt response, this is also my first debate... on debate.org at least.
Mr. Pote is my father.

My opponent concedes to my definition of a sport and that "If both are sports, and nothing can be more of a sport than a sport, then they are equal sports." This is found at the end of my first contention.
The most important part of this quote is "nothing can be more of a sport than a sport". Since we have already agreed that both golf and Ping Pong are sports, then neither of them can be "more of a sport" than the other. The resolution is impossible to affirm.

My opponent makes several arguments against my second contention, subpoint c).
The first argument is that the majority of golf games are in tournaments, and that "there can be just as many opponents in a ping pong tournament as a golf tournament". I will concede this point, that there are EQUAL numbers of opponents in each of the tournaments.

The second argument is that ping pong is more difficult to consistently win because each player must play multiple games in order to win. My opponent does not cite a specific number of games. In each golf tournament each player must play 18 holes. If we use the example of 25 competitors per tournament this comes out to 450 holes per tournament. Each hole is a competition that can literally cause a player to lose the entire tournament.

The third and final attack on my case is that there are variables that affect ping pong, including "paddles(size and weight of paddles), balls(weight of balls), table(what tables are made of), ect." My opponent agrees that there are more variables affecting golf though, so even if there are variables affecting ping pong they do not overpower the variables affecting golf. Thus, golf is more affected by variables and is therefore harder to consistently win at.
My opponent asks " Generally is golf not played on nice days with little wind?", and the answer would be yes. The key word in his question is generally, which leaves room for golf to be played on not so nice days and/or with a lot of wind.
Ping pong does not have any of these variables ever because it is played indoors or under controlled circumstances.

I would like to note that my opponent does not offer any arguments against my first contention, or my subpoints a) or b). I will try to show the importance of these points in my next round.

My opponent then goes on to defend his case.
He defines Skill as "competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity" I accept this definition.

He says that "Skill is not defined by the distance hit but the accuracy of the ball hit"
I do not see accuracy anywhere in the agreed upon definition of skill, but I will argue that golf requires more accuracy than Ping Pong.
My opponent fails to recognize that in a larger area there are more points that can be the possible landing spots of a ball. It requires more accuracy to hit a single point 100 yards away than to hit a single point 1 yard away because of all the variables affecting the ball while it is in the air. This can be cross applied to my variables argument in subpoint c) of my contention 2. A golf ball stays in the air for a much longer period of time and therefore variables have more of an effect on its final stopping point. Variables lead to inaccuracy, which means that golf requires more accuracy to compensate for the variables affecting the golf ball.

My opponent argues that "It takes more skill to hit a ping pong ball in the exact spot that will make your opponent to miss than it does to hit a golf ball in the general vicinity of something on a huge golf course" but the golf tournament victors do not simply hit a golf ball in any "general vicinity". There are many examples of incredible accuracy including the above video.

My opponent also argues that "the distance is irrelevant.", which would mean that golf and ping pong require the same level of accuracy, which would negate the resolution.

My opponent agrees that he was comparing two very unlike things and that means that they cannot be accurately used to compare golf and ping pong, so the comparison he made in his first case is moot.

My opponent then argues that the force required to hit a ping pong ball across the table is greater than the force required to hit a golf ball across the course.
He cites that Force=Mass x Acceleration and plugs in a few numbers to calculate the force for each sport.
His math is incorrect. 115 grams x 78 m = 8.970 Newtons is correct.(m is actually the incorrect unit for acceleration, but I assume he means m/s2, that is, meters divided by seconds squared)(1) However, 77 grams x 1.875 m would actually be .144375 Newtons. It's .077 x 1.875.
I hope that this was a simple decimal error and not a deliberate attempt to skew facts by not converting the 77 grams that a ping pong ball weighs into .077 kilograms. The weight of a golf ball was properly converted into kilograms.
Newtons are "the force required to accelerate a one kilogram mass at a rate of one meter per second squared"(2)
This means that the force required to send a golf ball the distance that golf balls are sent is much greater than the force required to send a ping pong ball the distance that ping pong balls are sent.

This does not take into account constant motion however, but there have been no calculations done as to the force required for constant motion and thus it cannot be proved that constant motion is more stressful than the difference in force between golf and ping pong.

My opponent's last argument includes is that "In every type of action it is harder to hit a moving object". This is actually false. The direction of movement is what matters. My opponent brings up the example of hunting deer and how it is more difficult " to kill it as it is running away", but this is only based on the direction of the movement of the deer. If the deer were running in a straight line in the same direction as the hunter fires the bullet in, the deer will be hit. Likewise, if a ping pong ball is sent towards your paddle, it requires no effort on your part to hit it. It does require some effort to hit a golf ball and some effort is more than no effort. I realise that professional ping pong players do not send the ball directly into their opponent's paddle, but so far I have no reason to think that the effort required to hit a moving ping pong ball a short distance is greater than the effort required to hit a stationary golf ball a very large distance, especially when the golf ball has so many variables affecting it.

(1)-http://en.wikipedia.org...
(2)-http://en.wikipedia.org...
I am almost at the 7000 character limit, so I would like to thank my opponent Witty11 once more for his response.
Debate Round No. 2
Witty11

Pro

Dear Sir, I also would like to thank you for accepting this debate it has been fun.
"The second argument is that ping pong is more difficult to consistently win because each player must play multiple games in order to win. My opponent does not cite a specific number of games. In each golf tournament each player must play 18 holes. If we use the example of 25 competitors per tournament this comes out to 450 holes per tournament. Each hole is a competition that can literally cause a player to lose the entire tournament." 450 holes looks meager compared to the number of serves that would have to happen to win a Ping Pong tournament, "winning consistently". 21 points= 1 game 7 games= 1match there are 3 matches in a round. And if it is a double elimination like some are, 48 rounds would be played to find a grand champion. So lets figure this up. There are 441 points in a round times 48 rounds, equals 21,168 serves in all. A serve would be compared to teeing off, in golf. This would make ping pong harder to "consistently win" at.
"The third and final attack on my case is that there are variables that affect ping pong, including "paddles(size and weight of paddles), balls(weight of balls), table(what tables are made of), ect." My opponent agrees that there are more variables affecting golf though, so even if there are variables affecting ping pong they do not overpower the variables affecting golf. Thus, golf is more affected by variables and is therefore harder to consistently win at."
This is true but the variables do not out weigh the win factor if it is 450 holes to 21,168 serves. Variables can not affect a game by that much it is physically impossible. the variables would have to make up 20,718 holes.
"My opponent asks " Generally is golf not played on nice days with little wind?", and the answer would be yes. The key word in his question is generally, which leaves room for golf to be played on not so nice days and/or with a lot of wind.
Ping pong does not have any of these variables ever because it is played indoors or under controlled circumstances. I concede to this statement.
http://tabletennis.about.com...
http://www.ehow.com...
" It requires more accuracy to hit a single point 100 yards away than to hit a single point 1 yard away because of all the variables affecting the ball while it is in the air. A golf ball stays in the air for a much longer period of time and therefore variables have more of an effect on its final stopping point. Variables lead to inaccuracy, which means that golf requires more accuracy to compensate for the variables affecting the golf ball." Ping pong balls are hit from farther away than one yard see the video (also notice the movement of the players, if I have enough room I will get back to that). I will agree that variables lead to inaccuracy but once again no variables can affect the outcome of a tournament by that much.
"My opponent argues that "It takes more skill to hit a ping pong ball in the exact spot that will make your opponent to miss than it does to hit a golf ball in the general vicinity of something on a huge golf course" but the golf tournament victors do not simply hit a golf ball in any "general vicinity". There are many examples of incredible accuracy including the above video." Firstly I am aware of the magnificent shot of tiger woods and also I know that he is not the only person to do so, but the thing is that this ideal shot happens almost never it is a rarity of golf. Secondly the distance you have to hit a golf ball (on some holes) to get it in the hole is above human capability. "My opponent also argues that "the distance is irrelevant.", which would mean that golf and ping pong require the same level of accuracy, which would negate the resolution." this comment is not true and I will agree that what I said is incorrect. Stating that, I would like to mention that this "incredible accuracy" is not complete skill as in all sports luck is involved. The conditions or the variables where just right to help this next to impossible shot.
"My opponent then argues that the force required to hit a ping pong ball across the table is greater than the force required to hit a golf ball across the course.
He cites that Force=Mass x Acceleration and plugs in a few numbers to calculate the force for each sport.
His math is incorrect. 115 grams x 78 m = 8.970 Newtons is correct.(m is actually the incorrect unit for acceleration, but I assume he means m/s2, that is, meters divided by seconds squared)(1) However, 77 grams x 1.875 m would actually be .144375 Newtons. It's .077 x 1.875." This incorrect math is not really incorrect. The miss understanding is partially my fault for these reasons. 1) I said "F=M*A M=115 grams A=78 m times a equals 8.97 Newton's - this is for a golf ball F=M*A M= 77 grams A=1.875 m times a equals 144.375 - this is for ping pong" this was in correct.
2) the first reason it was in correct is that I did not mention m/s2 as the unit. 3) The mass of the object was for the paddles and clubs, I took the average weight of each (using the same unit of weight(grams)) I multiplied this by the acceleration (both using the same standard unit (m/s2)) the reason my opponent is confused is that I said "this is for a golf ball" when it should have read this is for a golf club. I then put this in unit converter/force formula (http://www.ajdesigner.com...) and I got 8.97 newtons for the golf club and 144.375 for the Ping Pong paddle. "I hope that this was a simple decimal error and not a deliberate attempt to skew facts by not converting the 77 grams that a ping pong ball weighs into .077 kilograms. The weight of a golf ball was properly converted into kilograms.Newtons are "the force required to accelerate a one kilogram mass at a rate of one meter per second squared"(2)This means that the force required to send a golf ball the distance that golf balls are sent is much greater than the force required to send a ping pong ball the distance that ping pong balls are sent." I put this in the formula converter and it takes care of converting. it was not a decimal error and I am going to do A golf ball compared to a pong ball right now A PONG BALL WEIGHTS 2.7 GRAMS AND THE ACCELERATION IS 1.875 M/S2 THIS EQUALS FORCE = 0.0050625 NEWTONS NOW A GOLF BALL 45.93 GRAMS X ACCELERATION WHICH IS 78 M/S2 =3.58254 NEWTONS a golf ball has more force when hit than a ping pong ball but the ball is not stressing the body physically but the swing of the paddle/club is so this proves that ping pong is more physically stressful to the body.
http://answers.yahoo.com...
to address the hunting issue first ping pong balls move in different directions than just strait,like an arrow, they curve so a deer running is harder to hit because you must have the ball come down on the deer
Pote I've enjoyed
Pote

Con

Thanks again for the debate, it certainly has been fun.

My opponent starts of his last round with a counter argument to my 450 tee offs argument. He calculates the number 21,168, which I will accept.
21,168 divided by 450 is 47.04, so there are 47.04 times as many swings in ping pong as there are in golf.
I'll plug in both the force from swinging a ping pong paddle/golf club and ping pong ball/golf ball.
Newtons are, as I quoted in my second round:"the force required to accelerate a one kilogram mass at a rate of one meter per second squared" This means that we must plug in kilograms, not grams.
Ping pong paddle: 77 GRAMS x 1.875 m/s2 which is equal to .077 KILOGRAMS x 1.875 m/s2. This is .144375 Newtons.
Golf club:115 GRAMS x 78 m/s2 which is equal to .115 KILOGRAMS x 78 m/s2. This is 8.970 Newtons.
If we divide the force to swing a golf club (8.970) by the force to swing a ping pong paddle (.144375) we get 62.129870.
This is much larger than 47.04, so it requires more force to swing a golf club 450 times than to swing a ping pong paddle 21,168 times.

I'll plug in the new numbers that my opponent got for a ping pong ball and golf ball, which I accept.
.0050625 Newtons for the ping pong ball. 3.58254 Newtons for the golf ball. 3.58254 divided by .0050625 is 707.6622222.
This is much larger than 47.04, so it requires more force to hit a golf ball 450 times than to hit a ping pong ball 21,168 times. (1), checked with (2)

My opponent concedes that there are more variables affecting golf than ping pong, on top of the increased amount of force required to swing a golf club and hit a golf ball. I cannot assign a number value to these variables, because they are variables, but they do make it more difficult to consistently win golf.
My opponent even says " I will agree that variables lead to inaccuracy but once again no variables can affect the outcome of a tournament by that much." which shows that variables make it harder to play golf, but by a small/unknown amount.

I agree that the hole in one "is a rarity of golf", but it was just an example to show that it requires more accuracy to hit a ball a farther distance with the same accuracy.
I agree that "this "incredible accuracy" is not complete skill as in all sports luck is involved", but that means that luck is also involved in ping pong, so ping pong is not any more of a sport than golf. The statement "in all sports luck is involved" negates the resolution, and my opponent said it, not me.

My opponent's next argument is about the math, which I went over above.

My opponent's last argument is that " ping pong balls move in different directions than just strait", and I agree with this, but he has not given a number value, similar to how I could not give a number value to the variables affecting golf.
It is not possible to show that ping pong is harder than golf when we have an unknown value making it more difficult on each side. We cannot weigh EITHER unknown value as greater than the other, so the resolution must be negated.

Conclusion:
My opponent has not offered any arguments against my first contention or my subpoints a) or b), as I stated in my second round.
My first contention is very important because I defined a sport as a noun and argued that nouns could not be more of themselves than the same noun. In other words, as my opponent agreed with, "If both are sports, and nothing can be more of a sport than a sport, then they are equal sports." This negates the resolution, if they are equal sports then ping pong cannot be more of a sport than golf, they are equal.

My subpoints a) and b) were mainly for clarification, so it doesn't really matter that much that my opponent agreed with them.

The voting issues in this debate (as I see them) should be:
1. A sport cannot be "more of a sport" than another sport because sport is a noun. My opponent agreed with this.
2. The Force associated with playing each sport, which sport puts more stress on the body due to the forces.
3. Which sport takes more accuracy.
4. The variables affecting golf make golf a harder sport to consistently win at, but by an unknown amount.
5. The moving ping pong ball makes ping pong a harder sport to consistently win at, but by an unknown amount.

I believe that I have won on the majority of these arguments and I urge you to vote negative.

(1)-http://www.ajdesigner.com...
(2)-http://calculator.com...

Thanks for the debate, Witty, it's been fun.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Nicely debated on both sides. Pro has the burden of proof, but ultimately conceded that both golf and ping pong were equal as "sports." So I give the arguments to Con.

Incidentally, it is probably not force that is at issue, but force summed over time.

Pro could have argued that most sports require continuous physical exercise and that attribute is what makes one sport "more of a sport" than another. I'm not sure that argument could be sustained, but it would avoid conceding that all sports are equal.
Posted by Witty11 7 years ago
Witty11
i voted for myself before, and after tie on conduct
opponent on spelling and grammer
tie on convincing arguments
and myself on sources
Posted by Pote 7 years ago
Pote
I voted myself before the debate and myself after the debate, because I am myself and I did not change.
Tie on conduct because I don't think either of us were too rude.
Myself on spelling and grammar, because I found more mistakes in his posts than mine.
Myself on convincing arguments, mostly because I am biased.
Opponent on sources, he had more, so his total reliability is higher.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Just post it in the comments section.
Posted by Pote 7 years ago
Pote
Because definitional debates are boring and how do I add an rfd to each category?
The Votes tab seems like it's under maintenance.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Why did this debate become about difficulty of the 2 sports? Since when did difficulty define a sport? Is mountain juggling 1000 times as much of a sport as football?
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
You can if you want to, but I would highly suggest posting an RFD (reason for decision) in each category explaining why you voted for yourself.
Posted by Pote 7 years ago
Pote
Do people generally vote for themselves on this site? Because it is giving me the option to do so.
Posted by Pote 7 years ago
Pote
All I did to post the video was put in the link of the video and it showed up. I was actually just trying to link the video.
Yea, it's been fun. This is my first debate.org debate and I think it's pretty cool.
Posted by Witty11 7 years ago
Witty11
Also i ran out of room to post a video and i did not know how to either so just discard the video thing
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by jamie8sora 6 years ago
jamie8sora
Witty11PoteTied
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Vote Placed by shadow835 7 years ago
shadow835
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Vote Placed by Brandonmaciel333 7 years ago
Brandonmaciel333
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Vote Placed by blazeratman 7 years ago
blazeratman
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Vote Placed by Schnebby 7 years ago
Schnebby
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Vote Placed by shrink15 7 years ago
shrink15
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Vote Placed by AquaGekko23 7 years ago
AquaGekko23
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Vote Placed by dragon69slayer 7 years ago
dragon69slayer
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Vote Placed by Witty11 7 years ago
Witty11
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
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