The Instigator
Assassin9981
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ragnar
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Pink Floyd's "The Dark Side of the Moon" is the greatest classic rock album of all time.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Ragnar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/7/2016 Category: Music
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 406 times Debate No: 89310
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

Assassin9981

Pro

The album is perfectly crafted and made, with every detail a perfect pinnacle of rock music. Everything about the album is absolutely superb and is unmatched in rock music, nothing even comes close to its mastery.
Ragnar

Con

I accept this challenge, mainly because I consider the album in question to be over rated.

R1: Not "absolutely superb"
This is a simple Modus Tollens review,

  • If A, then B
  • Not B
  • Therefore not A.

If "perfectly crafted and made," then "the greatest classic rock album of all time."

It is not perfectly crafted and made, as evidenced by it needing to be repeatedly remastered [1].

Therefore, it is not "the greatest classic rock album of all time."

R2: Other Great Albums I
"Nothing even comes close to its mastery," is an easy to disprove claim. Without appeals to authority of sales charts etc., I offer up Nine Inch Nails The Fragile for consideration [2, cue YouTube at 16:26, and I suggest just leaving it playing in the background]. The entire album is one continuously flowing piece of music which evolves from one track to the next, rather than doing the standard disconnect. For an example, At 23:42 (listen a few seconds before and after) the songs seamlessly shift from We're In This Together Now, to The Fragile.

C1: Burden of Proof
The claim is not merely a very good album, but the greatest of all time. This is an incredibly strong claim, which will prove difficult for Pro to support let alone prove, and prove it he must. This problem is worse for the entirely subjective nature of the terms (were I a jerk, I'd play a semantics game arguing that The Rock Book contains far more pictures of rocks), when pro is trying to prove an objective conclusion.

Conversely, my duty is not to prove any other album is the greatest, but to cast sufficient doubt on pro's claim (no I will not argue that hypothetically one that wasn't released could be better).

C2: Ticket To Ride
The Dark Side of the Moon contains a clip from Ticket To Ride [2].

If accidental, it proves the album is flawed.

If intentional, it suggests their humility in proclaiming The Beatles to be "a perfect pinnacle of rock music," which their own having to borrow from cannot be.

C3: Other Great Albums II
I'm not trying to Gish Gallop into the sunset, but offer a small sampling of popular disagreement with pro's assertion.

ShortList.com proclaims Green Day's American Idiot to be the best [4], an album so great it was adapted into a Broadway musical. The same list rates The Dark Side of the Moon at 18th place

Guitar World puts The Who's Who's Next first [5], and The Dark Side of the Moon at 5th place.

Sources:
[1] Remastered https://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] Nine Inch Nails, YouTube http://youtu.be...
[3] Beatles Superiority: http://www.songfacts.com...
[4] Green Day http://www.shortlist.com...
[5] The Who http://www.guitarworld.com...

Debate Round No. 1
Assassin9981

Pro

Assassin9981 forfeited this round.
Ragnar

Con

By forfeiting the round, pro has dropped key points of rebuttal. It is therefore concluded that Nine Inch Nails' The Fragile, is indeed a greater classic rock album than Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon.

This is not to say The Fragile is necessarily the greatest, but merely that it is greater.
Debate Round No. 2
Assassin9981

Pro

Assassin9981 forfeited this round.
Ragnar

Con

Extend all points.

Note: In the comment section I outright told him how to defeat my arguments; I wrote them intentionally to be flawed.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Smooosh 7 months ago
Smooosh
O.k. thanks man.
Posted by Smooosh 7 months ago
Smooosh
O.k. thanks man.
Posted by Ragnar 7 months ago
Ragnar
Thanks for the offer, but it's one I suggest just creating as an open debate. There's bound to be good opponents for it.
Posted by Smooosh 7 months ago
Smooosh
Aww, how's about one last hoorah before you go?
Posted by Ragnar 7 months ago
Ragnar
I actually might be retiring from debating here.
Posted by Smooosh 7 months ago
Smooosh
Hello. I'm new to this site, so I'm not quite sure how this all works yet, but I must say, I was fairly underwhelmed by the arguments on the "pro" side of this debate. I think I may be able to do a little bit better, if you're willing. Hit me back.
Posted by Ragnar 10 months ago
Ragnar
And yes, you can still win this.

First of all, understand principles described in the guide: http://goo.gl...
Second, identify and exploit the fallacies and misinformation I left open in my case (for starters, was my first rebuttal really Modus Tollens, or just Denying The Antecedent?)
Third, strengthen your own case with a clear Modus Ponens standard for why it's the greatest.

I'm not saying you will win this, but you can definitely make this a real contest; one you can learn from.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by illegalcombat 10 months ago
illegalcombat
Assassin9981RagnarTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeits 2/3, Conduct Con.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 10 months ago
famousdebater
Assassin9981RagnarTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made arguments and rebuttals which were all dropped by Pro by forfeiting. Given that he directly refuted all of Pro's points and Pro had a rather large burden of proof by making the positive claim in the resolution Con automatically wins. The BOP can only be fulfilled with Pro's arguments standing and since they were refuted Pro's burden wasn't fulfilled meaning that Con wins.