The Instigator
George_Bush_Rocks
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Itsallovernow
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

Playing guitar fast does not make you a good guitarist.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/3/2010 Category: Arts
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,744 times Debate No: 12235
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (7)

 

George_Bush_Rocks

Pro

This is one of my more interesting debates to talk about. But playing fast does not make you a good guitarist. Knowledge always rises above "speed".
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you for the debate.

REBUTTAL(S):

1. My opponent's only contention is that knowledge always rises above "speed". However, this is not true. I will "rebutt" this in my contentions subsequent to this.

CONTENTION(S):

1. Knowledge is not power.
a. You can recognize every guitar rift and chord and be able to play them, but how fluently? Odds are, yes, that you'll be able to play them fluently if you can read guitar notes, or at least well enough. However, my opponents case and standing is in support in all cases, which I can disprove. There are some guitarist, unequivically, that have arthritis. some songs they know how to play, but just cannot due to their disability.
b. The person who can play guitar fast has the muscle movement down pat. If they do not know how to read, then they can learn. More often than not, practicing and being able to control your movements with ease and percision is key to guitar playing, as opposed to reading. If I could play a song as fast as I could, I could play more uptempo songs.
c. This singular fact of being able to play (a) song(s) quickly, in itself, is not suffiecent enough to garuntee that all cases you will be profiecent enough to be a "good" guitar player. However, being able to have such muscle control and percision definately shows potential, and that potential can be used to grow to make you a "good" guitar player. In this, if you just had "knowledge", it wouldn't garuntee your success. Albiet, neither does speed, but if you can play quickly, then the person will have the potential to be come good ALWAYS. With knowledge, you might not ALWAYS be able to play quickly/good (i.e. the example listed above)

This is my case, and I hope my opponent does his/her best to crack it, but I have full measures of confidence that this will be an interesting and well-fought debate. Good luck, PRO.

=VOTE CON=
Debate Round No. 1
George_Bush_Rocks

Pro

Thank you CON, and good luck to you too. This will be an interesting debate.

First, "Knowledge is not power."
This is true for the most part. Knowledge is knowledge. But with knowledge you learn and gain the skills necessary to be able to play fast and with more power (pick grip, hand placement, strum control, ect.). Most people can play fast songs very well and fluently, but actually have no idea what they are playing. For example, if you play a riff, 12 bar blues progression, or even a full song, and play fluently through the whole riff, progression or song, you may have no idea what key it is in or what notes are included in the song. My main point is with knowledge of the guitar, or in any musical case, a lot of topics come to mind. Posture, speed, keeping a beat, or knowing the key of a song and notes within it (which I stated before). Ultimately leading to the point where you don't need to play fast to be a good guitarist.

Second, "The person who can play guitar fast has the muscle movement down pat." Not true. Many people can gain finger and hand strength, along with percision, by playing slow pace riffs with bends, slides, and hammer-ons.

Third, "However, being able to have such muscle control and percision definately shows potential, and that potential can be used to grow to make you a "good" guitar player. In this, if you just had "knowledge", it wouldn't garuntee your success." This I can disprove. Just being able to play fast does not show much potential. Many famous guitarists start out on the basics. Learing the parts of the guitar, what is unique about their guitar, notes, reading notes, learning keys, all leading up to being able to play those fast riffs, in which you can make up on your own easily off the top of your head.
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you again for the debate.

"But with knowledge you learn and gain the skills necessary to be able to play fast and with more power."
I. There are different types of knowledge in music, some of them that are unteachable, but inate.
a. For example, the ability and knowledge to tell which key is being played merely by ear. More often than not, those who lack theoretical knowledge deal better with practical. This is merely one example of this autistic child who plays piano (who's musical notes and ways are similar to guitar) his parents are deaf. http://abcnews.go.com... <---- Also a cited source. So, an impractical abstract approach to music can work, which is what I am a defending with my standing in the resolution.
b. That's not always true. Knowledge doesn't always garuntee success. For example, I could know how to do a backflip. Keep your knees bent, jump back and tuck, etc. but I may not be able to do it. The same principal applies with guitar, with different muscle movements (even if it's just fingers, it must be precise).

2. You can play a slow song, but it doesn't mean that your fingers can move at as quick a pace as fast songs.

3. "Just being able to play fast does not show much potential." No, that's not true. If you can play fast, you can play notes with speed and percision, and be taught how to read later, though reading doesn't nessicarily make you great either. It all comes down to the skills with the fingers, and being able to play fast is most definately an asset in this case. Such an asset, that I believe it should win this debate.

=VOTE CON=
Debate Round No. 2
George_Bush_Rocks

Pro

1. You're link showed an autistic child being able to play piano and sing merely by memory and without much knowledge. He has perfect pitch and plays beautifully without the guidance of a teacher or an expert. These flaws would mostly likely show the characteristics of a musical prodigy.

A. You are stating that this boy does not need knowledge, which is most likely true. But it didn't give any edge as to why you do need to be able to play fast in order to be a good guitarist. I don't know about anyone else, but my opponents link seemed completely irrelevant to the debate topic.

2. ........

"You can recognize every guitar rift and chord and be able to play them, but how fluently? Odds are, yes, that you'll be able to play them fluently if you can read guitar notes, or at least well enough."

Do you really think these guitarists just picked up the guitar and just started to "...play them (the songs) fluently...or at least well enough"?

This is going to be my final point, so I will try to make it my best.

3. You made a point saying that being able to play fast shows potential. It shows very little potential. If you one day decide to start a band, you're not going to be able to walk in and make songs (relating to the above songs, or any type of song) knowing just how to play fast. There are many other factors you would have to consider in order to actually make a song. Many guitarists have made slow paced guitar songs in which were major hits, such as Stairway To Heaven (minus the solo).

=VOTE PRO=
[ ;) ]
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you, for the deabte.

I would like to point out that "YouTube" is not a valid source. Therefore, all information in the video should be discredited. I personally haven't even watched them.

=REBUTTALS=

1. " You're link showed an autistic child being able to play piano and sing merely by memory and without much knowledge. He has perfect pitch and plays beautifully without the guidance of a teacher or an expert. These flaws would mostly likely show the characteristics of a musical prodigy."

a) My link is a valid source (ABC News). The principal that I'm proving is not so much the ability to read sheet music, but to prove that being able to read sheet music and retaining that knowledge does not define you as a good player. Also, the source did not say "from memory", but by ear. Also, you said he has "perfect pitch and plays beautifully", but state he is flawed.

b) "You are stating that this boy does not need knowledge, which is most likely true. But it didn't give any edge as to why you do need to be able to play fast in order to be a good guitarist." Then you agree with my point. You stated in your 2nd round that knowledge allows you to play fast and with more power. So, being talented at playing an instrument (which you said he was), playing it without "knowledge", and being able to keep tempo does not qualify for being good? It does.

c) You also said that he had the characteristics of a musical prodigy, but also said earlier "Most people can play fast songs very well and fluently." That is a falicy by generalization. His being able to play well and fluently is a skill, and he is just one of many that retains that talent.

2) You "rebutted" with a question. This does not prove a point, and my arguement therefore stands.

3) "It [Being able to play fast] shows very little potential. If you one day decide to start a band, you're not going to be able to walk in and make songs (relating to the above songs, or any type of song) knowing just how to play fast. There are many other factors you would have to consider in order to actually make a song. "

a. Being able to have that kind of muscle control IS talent, and it's not something that everyone can do. That kind of talent is inate. Anyone (within reason), can learn to read music, and you did not refute my point "those who can't teach" and the example of the gymnast {we learn through similies and metaphors, everyone =)}

b. And, yes, there are many other factors to make you a good guitarist. This resolution is impossible to operate under the premise, because it does not include those other factors, which is why I debated listening by ear over your "knowledge" (reading sheet music)

c. "Many guitarists have made slow paced guitar songs in which were major hits, such as Stairway To Heaven (minus the solo)." You can't provide an example and then edit out parts that aren't appurtenant to your case. I also find this irrelevant to the topic "Playing fast doesn't make you a good guitarist.". That song is popular because it's a good song, not because it's a slow song.

Thank you for the debate.

=VOTE CON=
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by George_Bush_Rocks 6 years ago
George_Bush_Rocks
Yep, good luck.
Posted by Itsallovernow 6 years ago
Itsallovernow
Thanks for the debate =)
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