The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Pro (for)
Losing
17 Points
The Contender
PoeJoe
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

PoeJoe should immediately comply with the cease and desist order sent to him by debate.org

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
PoeJoe
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/29/2008 Category: Technology
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,067 times Debate No: 6368
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (15)
Votes (7)

 

DucoNihilum

Pro

Earlier today, poejoe received a letter from Phil (owner of this website) ordering him to cease and desist from his part in the website (now closed) "debatedotcom.com", for trademark and copyright infringement. He has 48 hours to comply before it goes to the "next step". Poejoe is not compromising, I suggest he think otherwise. It is my position that he should immediately do whatever Phil says or face the consequences.
PoeJoe

Con

Clarification: I am not not complying; I am simply asking for a compromise.

The following is how I responded to the order:

"I have temporarily taken the site offline. In the meantime, I'd like to talk this through.

There were no bad intentions when I created the site. If anything, the site was meant to strengthen the debate.org community, thus providing your site with more traffic.

If you insist, I will give up the domain name, but I really doubt there exists copyright infringement. It's a fansite; it's expected to have a similar name. I do not remember there being a problem with John's "debatef.com".

And if it is the logo that is the problem, I will gladly change it (although it is already much different -- mine being bolded arial and yours being hand drawn). If it is the ads, I will run the site ad-less.

I don't want there to be any trouble. I created the site to help debate.org; I thought you would be pleased. I really want to continue the fansite.

Is there any possible way we could work this out mutually? I have proposed some compromises, and I think you should consider them."

I believe that that's reasonable. He would have had to send me a reply back anyway, because he would have had to send me the godaddy info. I'm just asking for what is fair.
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Pro

I would like to thank my respected opponent for responding promptly.

Before we begin, I would like to explain what complaints were raised in the cease and desist order.

The primary complaints are

* Trademark violation / Domain issues

* Copyright infringement

* Advertisements

Orders are

* Cease and desist W/I 48 horus

* Transfer ownership of infringing domain.

Now- the biggest problem here is that he has legitimate compaints. The website debatedotcom is arguably domain squatting, which has time and time again caused lawsuits or other legal issues. Furthermore, he was using the intellectual property (debate.org logo) for his own. While PoeJoe did modify it, modification is STILL an infringement of copyright.

Even worse, he tried to make money off of all of this.

Now at this point, the best course of action would be to just give up. He wants to "compromise"- Phil is clearly in no mood to compromise, he sent out a legal letter already.

PoeJoe, in private chat, argued that WebCorp was a "paper company", in other words, irrelevant.

This is a marked showing of absolute ignorance and arrogance. A delusional sense of grandure does NOT mean that a company can not afford a lawyer. You would imagine that debate.org would make enough money in ad revenue for Phil to afford a lawyer.

Now, may I note that none of these claims even have to be true for PoeJoe to get in troble.

If the charges are even filed, frivolous or not, he has a good chance of being out thousands of dollars.

Now, is it worth it to spend thousands of dollars because you are stubborn, and refuse to follow legal orders?

If Phil wanted to compromise he would have done so in the cease and desist order.

THe order was the compromise, the next step is legal action.

Now that poejoe has replied to Phil, he has proven that he has received the message (which is the point of the 48 hour rule anyways), and given that he has shown Phil no reason that he intends to comply, Phil's only option for his next move is legal- which will cause great problems for my opponent.

If my oponent is smart and would like to stay out of trouble, he would follow my humble advise and just let this problem go.

The risks are too high to try some childish compromise, ignoring a legal order. In less than two days, he will be out thousands of dollars for his arrogance.
PoeJoe

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent for creating this debate, and -- despite calling me ignorant, arrogant, and stubborn -- trying to help out. I must admit, I was literally shaking the first time I read the letter.

"Now- the biggest problem here is that he has legitimate compaints. The website debatedotcom is arguably domain squatting, which has time and time again caused lawsuits or other legal issues. Furthermore, he was using the intellectual property (debate.org logo) for his own. While PoeJoe did modify it, modification is STILL an infringement of copyright.

Even worse, he tried to make money off of all of this."

Yeah. I took the site down, and am merely asking to put the site back up without the logo and without the ads. Doing that, the only problem Phil could possibly have is the name "debatedotcom". Well, I'm not making any money, so it isn't domain squatting; and furthermore, there is nothing wrong with having "debatedotcom" anyway. Duco even said in our private chat, "Debate.org" is not a registered trademark. But even if it were registered, I'd urge my opponent to look at the following sites:

- debatef.com
- justfuckinggoogleit.com/
- www.googleguide.com/
- www.googlefight.com/
- www.google-watch.org/
- googlesightseeing.com/
- www.thechurchofgoogle.org/
- etc.

So what I'm proposing is completely legal.

In the end, I made the site in good taste. I wanted to help Phil and the website. I wanted to improve community spirit (which is rather low right now). I wanted to contribute to my favorite site on the web. I wanted to help, and do good. And Phil knows that.

I'm just asking for a compromise; that's all. If he doesn't like it, or if he doesn't respond in twenty four hours, I will surrender everything. Again, I'm just looking for what's fair. I'm just looking to help debate.org and its wonderful community.
Debate Round No. 2
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bigtree 7 years ago
bigtree
I think it should have been fine for PoeJoe to use his suggeted compromises.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Without any change guaranteed, this site itself will become nonsensical. Oh well, as the captain, I shall proudly sink with my ship.
Posted by PoeJoe 8 years ago
PoeJoe
My lord. Now that everything was automatically changed from "debate.com" to "debate.org", this debate is nonsensical!
Posted by Labrat228 8 years ago
Labrat228
Go here to view the cease and desist order: http://www.someonejohn.com...
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
PoeJoe+1 is defending him because he has been thoroughly intimidated. He is bending over backwards for Phil now so that he doesn't get sued/banned.
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
I think it was mostly the doing of his lawyer. At least that's how I read his response.

Yeah I read it too. It looks like he's read how to win friends and influence people, or is at least /slightly/ trained in management / being a business man.

Smart guy though. He managed to threaten PoeJoe, and now PoeJoe is standing up for him.

Bravo, if I don't say so myself.
Posted by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
letmegooglethatforyou.com
Posted by PoeJoe 8 years ago
PoeJoe
There were more things than the domain name.

I think it was mostly the doing of his lawyer. At least that's how I read his response.

I wouldn't be to harsh on Phil. He's a professional Web Designer/Programmer/etc. He has to follow some protocols.
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
Why did Phil have to resort to bullying at first though? I'm sure PoeJoe+1 would have been happy to move it had Phil just mentioned that he was not happy with the similarities in the name...
Posted by PoeJoe 8 years ago
PoeJoe
Shows over folks. I'm giving Phil the domain, and he has given me permission to use another domain (such as debatetalk.com).
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Vote Placed by Danielle 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Labrat228 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by s0m31john 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
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