The Instigator
cheesedingo1
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
xxxallyssarulezxxx
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Pokemon is Better Than Yu-Gi-Oh

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
xxxallyssarulezxxx
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2012 Category: Arts
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,554 times Debate No: 20904
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

cheesedingo1

Pro

First of all, this is a fun debate not to be taken too seriosly but I want to have a good debate nontheless. And I am supportting the affirmative. Ok, so Pokemon is better because of the franchise it has created. It has had over ten successful years and has appealed to many kids and even adults more so than any other game about anime battling monsters. It has cards, tv shows, posters, and most popular, the games. Being able to create your own team to what you prefer and able to endure on a long journey that will lead to hours of entertainment.
Yu-Gi-Oh, while still popular, focuses primarilly on a card game. It has a TV series about kids playing cards. Really? watching kids play with cards for 30 minutes? Not fun. The video games are just playing cards as well, and also lack the fun of the Pokemon games.
For these basic reasons I support Pokemon over Yu-Gi-Oh.
xxxallyssarulezxxx

Con

Firstly, I wish to thank my opponent, cheesedingo1, for the opportunity to debate this particular topic as debating less serious topics is a great stress reliever.

I'm under the assumption that we both lay out our arguments first round as to why either brand is better, and subsequent rounds are for rebuttals and the like.

Yu-gi-oh's premise is old Egyptian card games, which, to many people, is fascinating, hence why past cultural studies (ancient history) are offered in school, university etc. It is this fascination which makes the franchise so popular and successful.

The mechanics of the card game are relatively simple and are accessible to people of all ages. However, it also challenging enough to reach into higher dimensions of competitive play.

Variety is abundant in the card game as there are about 5000 (I can't find the actual amount, but I think we can agree on this) different cards available. There are many different tactics and strategies to be found within different combinations as a result of the huge variety.

The television series offers excitement and life's-lessons rather than in depth tactics (or even abiding by the rules). "Heart of the cards" reminds children that winning isn't everything as the spirit in which you play is, ultimately, the most important.

I wish my opponent luck, and more importantly, fun :)
Debate Round No. 1
cheesedingo1

Pro

I would like to thank my oponent for accepting my challenge. I agree in having a good stress relieving debate as well.

My oponents states that YGO (Yu-Gi-Oh) is something to fascinate people in Universities and studiers of anchient history, but this is, as stated by parody series of YGO such as "abriged Series" (http://www.yugiohabridged.com...), a "Childrens card game", and it is. Its goal is that of entertainment for children, not for people in universities and studiers of anchient history. I dont mean to offend anyone who is older and plays YGO, but its main target in sales is children. Also, it is not primarily about Ancient Egypt and history as much as it is about a card game between short kids with huge hair. Pokemon, on the other hand, is not confusing young minds with things such as ancient egypt and history, but as a fun way to raise a team of your own warriors to fight for fun.

And for a comparison between the card game of YGO and Pokemon, YGO is very graphic. Graveyard? Traps? Life points? Attacking? this game acts as though it is a matter of life and death, not a simple card game. While there are many cards in the game, a large margin of those cards have images of blood and gore, with monsters eating eachother and ripping eachother apart. How is this a good way to affect the kids these days? In the Pokemon trading card game, there is simple things, like discard piles and prize cards, no death and life points and such. Its a much more simple and less graphic way to play card games. And there is not a single card that shows pokemon ripping nor eating eachother apart.

As for the television series, they say that the so called "heart of the cards" deals with getting emotionally attached to cards, and that somehow incorperates with getting lucky. It almosts seems like gambling, but I'm not even going to go there. But giving kids the idea that if you think hard enough about a card being what you want it to be on top of your "deck", makes kids think that they somehow will get it. And then, to there most likely dissapointment, they see it is not it. How does thinking hard enough about something will make it happen? In pokemon, it involves skill, not mindless guessing and hoping, but skill. In the games, the only time you have to worry about chance is if a certain risky attack will land or not.

I again thank my oponent for this debate and am glad to partake in it. Have fun with this. :)
xxxallyssarulezxxx

Con

Before I begin getting serious about serious issues, I thank my opponent for presenting excellent arguments and heavily criticising YGO effectively. Also, I wish to thank him for the very handy abbreviation: YGO (Yu-gi-oh).

"[Pokemon] has had over ten successful years" Successful in terms of financial revenue, but in terms of quality? I concede that the first two generations were excellent (despite theirs flaws e.g. mechanics in RBY gen.), but the quality has dissipated since: "they have no imagination now. Pidove? That's like a gay and retarded version of Pidgey [1]". More evidence of failure – [2], where a consumer complains about the apparently annoying "French horn" whilst "surfing". Failing to satisfy customers is a failure, and reaping profits because of past successes, despite producing rubbish currently is called "cashing-in", and to be honest, this undermines the franchise.

"and has appealed to many kids and even adults more so than any other game about anime battling monsters." Due to having more time to appeal to them than YGO.

"Being able to create your own team to what you prefer and able to endure on a long journey that will lead to hours of entertainment." YGO matches this with the variety of cards.

"Really? watching kids play with cards for 30 minutes? Not fun." You can also listen to them too.

"Its goal is that of entertainment for children, not for people in universities and studiers of anchient history." Citation [3] clearly depicts a young man enthralled at the thought of activating his trap card. Even though YGO is targeted at children, I think it's a success that older people also enjoy it. Also, the man appears to be at university (considering all the library shelves and people doing university things[4]).

"And for a comparison between the card game of YGO and Pokemon, YGO is very graphic." Pokemon is also very graphic. I remember finding and capturing ‘Missigno.' My game went haywire and the pixels were everywhere.

NEW ARGUMENTS:

Pokemon endorses cheating

In the pokemon generation RBY, ‘the rare candy cheat' was a method used to duplicate masterballs and rarecandies to catch all the pokemon and then speed level them.

Pokemon endorses illicit drugs

Venturing to ‘Glitch city' (by method of cheating) was possible because the producers wanted to train children for psychedelic drugs. The strange visuals were radical and had multiple subliminal messages encouraging children to do drugs [5] Also, the MART was a drug store, and you could buy non-commercial drugs which could have been infected or not were what the independent seller said they were (second gen). AND, the non-commercial drugs were cheaper!
This teaches children to support illegal third-party drug syndicates.

Pokemon is anti-Christian

Pokemon involves EVOLVING animal like creatures, subconsciously training children to accept evolution. Evolution is a lie because it says so in the Bible, so, the existence of Pokemon is really offensive to Christians.

Pokemon gives unreal expectations to children

"In the Pokemon trading card game, there is simple things, like discard piles and prize cards, no death and life points and such." This is true, but not recognising death is very detrimental to children. In fact, there has probably been some study that shows children believe they are immortal if they are not exposed to death constantly. Not expecting to die is awfully detrimental to anyone's mind, most likely.

"As for the television series, they say that the so called "heart of the cards" deals with getting emotionally…
…a certain risky attack will land or not." Talking about luck when you're arguing for pokemon? Please!

Official guides instructed trainers to save before they tried to catch a rare pokemon in case they fainted it. But there is something more sinister to this. See, this teaches children to give up when things don't go right, therefore, Pokemon accounts for a lot of teen suicides.

Also, you can only get Porygon, a really good Pokemon, through going to the slot machines. Talk about luck! And I'm pretty sure you need Porygon to both beat the game and brag to your friends about having one.

In conclusion, Pokemon probably causes most of the mental ailments in children and this makes it worse than YGO, which only accounts for the rest of the mental ailements.

[1] My twelve-year-old cousin
[2] http://au.gamespot.com...
[3] http://au.images.search.yahoo.com...
[4] My own experience
[5] Common knowledge
Debate Round No. 2
cheesedingo1

Pro

Before I start, I thank my oponent for such strong arguments and rebutles and Is able to defend her case very well.

"they have no imagination now. Pidove? That's like a gay and retarded version of Pidgey." First, to attack this sentence in particular, of course ther is imagination. They have monsters that look like moths, dragons, birds, plants, dogs, other animals, and even rocky creatures filled with details. There is TONS of imagination. While YGO does as well, they all consist of creepy pictures and monsters that should not be exposed to children of such a young age as they are intended for. Pokemon has no monsters that are scary enough to scare children. While even "Ghost" and "Dark" types are regarded as meaner or "evil" so to speak, they are all still cute and in the show can be tamed easily to be nice and kind. And "Gay and Retarded version of Pidgey" has two problems. First of all, Gay and retarded is rather offensive and should not be used, and to show how much better is on the child mind, it is a pidgey with a heart on its face [1]. It is shown as much more kind and not gory compared to that of YGO. Secondly, her source for this is her "12 year old cousin". Why does this source support any alibi? A twelve year old speaking that way is absurd [obviously from playing too much YGO :) ], and is not a reliable source.

On that note, most if not all of her sources are invalid. Own experience isn't enough for proof. The picture of the black man playing YGO is to make fun of it, not to show how adults play it. It's in a library to further show the comedic effect of being a "Nerd" and playing YGO, not to show how adults play it. And the gamespot link is a forum where it is biased on peoples opinions, not facts. And ill get to the common knowledge one.

As for the graphic conflict, the Glitch is supposed to screw up your game, because it is a hack. It will mess up your game is not endorsed. And by graphic, I meant blood and violence.

As for the cheat, it is not licensed nor endorsed by Nintendo. It was made by people wanting to enhance the games gameplay to new heights.

The producers for the Game did not make glitch city, a glitch is "a sudden instance of malfunctioning or irregularity in an electronic system" [2]. It is not produced that way, it was not intended to be there. It is "irregular" as stated in the definition. And I have not looked into the 'glitch city' thing, and did not even know it existed, whil im sure many other children don't know about either. I would aprectiate some evidence of this, such as pictures and sites on it. But i'm sure the producres of a kid's game would never endourse drugs. As for drug stores, they sell gum and comic books in real life, and are not filled with drugs, and neither is the mart in pokemon.

As for the Anti-Christian topic and the rest of the speech, I will get to that in my next rebutle, but it would take too long to tackle now.

I again thank my oponent for her strong case and look forward to her rebutle. :)

[1] http://www.google.com...
[2http://dictionary.reference.com...
xxxallyssarulezxxx

Con

Prior to this response, I thank my opponent for enduring the rubbish I wrote last argument. I assure him this argument will be of higher quality.

"they have no imagination now. Pidove? That's like a gay and retarded version of Pidgey."

The purpose of this quote was to demonstrate that while yes, there is a degree of imagination, it certainly lacks the imagination YGO has constantly showcased. For the record, my cousin is obsessed with Pokemon and has never touched a YGO card in his life.

There are other cases where imagination has evidently come second to laziness, or at least another for of inhibition. Another example of this incompetence is Sawk, Karate Pokémon [1]. Imagination is afar is we only glance at this Pokemon as it looks unmistakably like a karate combatant that, in fact, it could be mistaken for a human. To further exhibit this sheer dearth of imagination, we have Throh, Judo Pokémon [2]. Sure, the obvious misspelling of the word “throw” might have taken at least 5 seconds to imagine, but I would fathom that it took a grand total of 5 seconds to design the Pokemon. There are rare cases of brilliance from the design team of Pokemon, such as Skarmory, Steelix, Crobat etcetera, all of which can be described as awesome. However, names like Caturpie (caterpillar misspelt), Pidove (Pidgey misspelt) and Ekans (snake spelt backwards), are not particularly imaginative nor exceedingly clever. The linear ‘imagination’ of the produces becomes more obvious as the series progresses (Sawk, Throh and Pidove are blaring examples).

Conversely, YGO houses an array of aesthetically pleasing manga designs, compared to Pokemon’s largely pixelated messes. The imagination to not only design a creature, but also design the cards (which, based on observation, have a far greater attention to detail e.g. [1], compared to [3]. Thus, because of the demands placed on art, we can deduce that greater imagination is required to design a YGO card. To further my point, the grand total of unique YGO cards [4] exceeds that of the grand total of Pokemon (~495). While no exact figure is posted on the YGO card list [4], it is clear, through inspection, that there are more unique YGO cards than Pokemon.

“They have monsters that look like moths, dragons, birds, plants, dogs, other animals, and even rocky creatures filled with details.” – The degree of imagination to change a moth into, say Venemoth, does not exceed that of, say ‘stardust’ into ‘Stardust Dragon/ Assault Mode’. Explanation: Venemoth is a manga-ised moth which is poisoness. The stardust dragon whilst being a dragon (relatively unimaginative given the abundance of dragons in today’s modern culture), but the ‘stardust’ aspects AND the ‘assault mode’ have both been imagined from nothing. This is not an exclusive case either: Caturpie to Ancient Gear Golem, Magician of Black Chaos to Beedrill etcetera. Sure, there may be instances where YGO cards are lacking in quality, but the sheer quantity of well designed and imaginative processed cardboard gives the YGO franchise greater leverage for poor quality over Pokemon (50/1000 = 5/100 statistically, meaning if Pokemon produce just 6 poor Pokemon out of 100, YGO has a better quality ratio if they produce 50 poor cards out of 1000).

While the imagination and details of Pokemon may be good, compared to YGO however, the latter wins.

“While YGO does as well, they all consist of creepy pictures and monsters that should not be exposed to children of such a young age as they are intended for.”

A subjective criticism such as: “all consist of creepy pictures”, is just that, a subjective criticism. “Such a young age” does not quantifiable assert what age is young. Regardless, various aspects of YGO rate differently. “The GX episodes are rated 11+” [5]. As for the card game, while not official, 6 years and over is recommended. While potentially creepier than Pokemon, a mere “creepy” picture has yet to cause any child to freak out or become mentally unstable. I will not resort purely to semantics, but subjective criticisms, that are not supported with external evidence, are valueless.

The intrinsic mechanics of YGO are superior to that of Pokemon's

Complex mechanics are the making of YGO, while Pokemon is more simplistic. It could be argued that simplicity is preferable, however, I argue that the greater complexity allows for more involving play and a greater test of a player’s tactics and strategies. This allows a greater freedom in play, which is at least harder to design. It is harder to design as more variables have to be taken into account [6]. Pokemon is linear as you (in competitive play) always attack. The attack choise is also linear as there is often ‘only one best move’. YGO differs from this as the best move is: A) not always obvious, or B) is non-existent as there are multiple equally good moves. This superiority can be attributed to the complex mechanics, which allow a more complex and therefore, harder game which is not overly linear.

Outside of competitive play, Pokemon is arguably better as there is far more freedom. However, since YGO has only one aspect to its play (games of cards; there is no free-roam), it would be impossible to compare the two. Of course, you could argue that Pokemon is better due to the free-roam, RPG feature YGO lacks, but I argue that YGO competitive play has :A) longevity over the RPG aspect of Pokemon B) far more complexity in regards to strategy. The Pokemon RPG’s freedom is unmatched, yet this sole aspect can not outweigh the two advantageous aspects YGO has over it (all things being equal, and perhaps, not necessarily so).

Pokemon has fewer and less unique dimensions to its game-play than YGO .

For your other points in later paragraphs (beginning with: “On that note”, and subsequent paragraphs thereafter), I concede that you are correct in every circumstance.

[1]http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...

[2] http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...

[3] http://jradman11.hubpages.com...

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...!

[6] http://www.yu-gi-oh-cards.net...


Debate Round No. 3
cheesedingo1

Pro

Before the debate I apoligize for the wait and thank my oponent for her great rebutle.

While I agree that the originality of pokemon is running low, there is still not much origonallity with YGO. YGO consists of, as my oponent agrees with, mostly dragons, and creatures that rip eachother apart. It is a violent game, and should not be subjected to the likes of the children.

I must admit that I agree with the rest of the next paragraph on originality. It was well said.

My oponent then argues that stardust dragon (if i'm correct on it's name) is better than Venomoth,(http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...) a moth type pokemon (obviosly from it's name). The point of pokemon was trying to make kids think pokemon looked cool, but the point of it was also for kids to see the easy analogies between pokemon and real life things, to make it more beleivable. They tried for the majority of pokemon to be simple and easy to understand what they were symbolizing. YGO, on the other hand, has also changed from it's original ways. At first, there was only normal and effect monsters. Then, they developed fusion monsters. Simple enough. Then, came ritual monsters. Ok, still easy to understand. Now, they have added synchro summons, "xyz" summons, fusions between other fusion, synchro, and XYZ monsters, and even summoning a lot of powerful effect monsters cost special tributes. For example, VWXYZ dragon catipult cannon is a fusion monster that fuses a fusion monster that involves 3 monsters and one that involves 2 monsters. There is also Armityle the Chaos Phantom, which involves fusing 3 God type monsters that each take 3 monsters to summon. This is simply to hard to summon, and to build children up and then knock them down by a spell or trap card teaches them that no matter how hard they try, they can still be easily defeated very easily.

My oponent then argues about the age rating of the game and show. Obviosly, kids these days don't follow the age advised. Kids these days watch south park and family guy for fun, and obviosly dont follow it. I'm sure my oponent can agree on that.

I agree with my oponent in that simplicity is preferable, because having a game that is so confusing is often not chosen over a game that is simple and easy to understand. She then argues that there is a "best move" in YGO. But YGO only has attack and defense, with no room to choose a certain attack, while pokemon has the opurtunity to learn for attacks that can create combos and still add to simpler, easyer to understand mechanics of a card game.

YGO, like my oponent states, only consists of a card game and an unpopular show. For pokemon, the show is obviosly more popular, so is the game, but it is true that the card game isn't, but the videogame is the main focus, and that is where it leaves YGO in the tracks.
xxxallyssarulezxxx

Con

No need o apologize for the wait, life is predominately busy for the majority of us and DDO should not be a priority :)

“While I agree that the originality of pokemon is running low, there is still not much origonallity with YGO. YGO consists of, as my oponent agrees with, mostly dragons, and creatures that rip eachother apart. It is a violent game, and should not be subjected to the likes of the children.”

The card game certainly isn’t, and the television series employs ‘holograms’ to protect monsters. Furthermore, the holograms shatter into pieces when destroyed, not spill blood or become nastily deformed (e.g. you don’t have a bloody, dismembered arm lying around after a monster is struck).

“but the point of it [Venemoth, and Pokemon in general) was also for kids to see the easy analogies between pokemon and real life things, to make it more beleivable.”

While no referenced quote is provided, I concede that this is most likely the idea behind the names. However, YGO is not trying to be easy nor realistic in its approach. It is based (primarily) off Egyptian monster, all of which are non-existent (or at least yet to be proven to exist, lol). Both brands have a different purpose; therefore, neither can be better than the other in this regard.

“Armityle the Chaos Phantom, which involves fusing 3 God type monsters that each take 3 monsters to summon. This is simply to hard to summon, and to build children up and then knock them down by a spell or trap card teaches them that no matter how hard they try, they can still be easily defeated very easily.”

Conversely, it could teach children some invaluable lessons in life, for example, ‘life is not fair’. Also, it may ingrain some ‘common sense’, or even more complex concepts. Summoning this monster when there are 5 face down magic/trap cards is not a good idea because it is more than likely that one of the cards will hurt the newly summoned beast. The concept of ‘risk and reward’, commonly seen in the business world, caught also be taught to the kids. To demonstrate this point, say there are no cards in the magic or trap zone on the opponent’s side of the field. Relative to the ‘risk and reward’ concept, it is apparent that there is no risk due to a lack of magic/traps cards. Say there is one magic/trap card on the opponent’s side of the field. The child must now evaluate whether summoning the monster now is a good idea – whether the risk (losing the monster to the potential trap card) is worth the reward (summoning the monster and most likely winning the game). Evaluations like these are invaluable in real life, and children could learn them from situations like these.



“My oponent then argues about the age rating of the game and show. Obviosly, kids these days don't follow the age advised. Kids these days watch south park and family guy for fun, and obviosly dont follow it. I'm sure my oponent can agree on that.”

I don’t see how this weakens the YGO franchise; it only highlights the result of lazy parenting.

“I agree with my oponent in that simplicity is preferable”

I didn’t quite say that, in fact, I argued complexity can create a better gaming environment as there is greater scope for tactics and strategies.

“But YGO only has attack and defense, with no room to choose a certain attack, while pokemon has the opurtunity to learn for attacks that can create combos and still add to simpler, easyer to understand mechanics of a card game.”

Previously, you argued that YGO was not as simple as “attack and defence”: “Now, they have added synchro summons, "xyz" summons, fusions between other fusion, synchro, and XYZ monsters, and even summoning a lot of powerful effect monsters cost special tributes”. You’re arguing that “YGO only has attack and defence”, yet is too complicated due to things that are not attack and defence. Sure, there is “no room to choose certain attack[s]”, but the complexity comes elsewhere within the aspects that are not “attack and defence”.


“YGO, like my oponent states, only consists of a card game and an unpopular show. For pokemon, the show is obviosly more popular, so is the game, but it is true that the card game isn't, but the videogame is the main focus, and that is where it leaves YGO in the tracks”.

The show, I think, is less popular than the card game. I don’t have statistics and an accredited interpretation to show that the show is objectively “unpopular”. I don’t think either of us are in a valid judge position to determine how popular a show is, especially when no statistics are present. Frankly, you summation is unsupported.

I would like to conclude by showing you this [1]; it is in the rules to shake hands before a match, which teaches children about sportsmanship.

Debate Round No. 4
cheesedingo1

Pro

cheesedingo1 forfeited this round.
xxxallyssarulezxxx

Con

I thank my opponent for arguing for as long as he did.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by xxxallyssarulezxxx 4 years ago
xxxallyssarulezxxx
It's fine, you argued every other round :)
Posted by cheesedingo1 4 years ago
cheesedingo1
I'm SOOO sorry i wasnt able to to my rebutle. I have been at state finals for debate and i havent had access to my computer in four days.
Posted by xxxallyssarulezxxx 4 years ago
xxxallyssarulezxxx
The "gay and retarded" quote was direct, and given the nature and purpose of quotes, I always make sure I quote directly. Saying: he said something about it's nature being off -- is inferior to: "this is gay and retarded", which is a direct quote.
Posted by cheesedingo1 4 years ago
cheesedingo1
Ha no its ok just keep it a little bit less serious. The gay and retatrded vocabulary could offend some people so lets keep that on the down low.
Posted by xxxallyssarulezxxx 4 years ago
xxxallyssarulezxxx
Cheesdingo1,

I may have gone overboard with the absurdity. I'll take the next round deadly serious.
Posted by xxxallyssarulezxxx 4 years ago
xxxallyssarulezxxx
Riza Rosette,

It is only possible to discuss Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh in a serious way.
Posted by Riza_Rosette 4 years ago
Riza_Rosette
I don't think it's... is ethical the right word?
To site your own experience as a source. I mean, it's not like I can click the link and fact-check it.
Furthermore, "common knowledge" is only common to those who have it.

Also, is Con playing Devil's Advocate with that evolution comment? I really hope that's not serious.
Posted by cheesedingo1 4 years ago
cheesedingo1
ha im sure
Posted by xxxallyssarulezxxx 4 years ago
xxxallyssarulezxxx
Don't worry about it, I'll beat you anyway ;)
Posted by cheesedingo1 4 years ago
cheesedingo1
please tell me if i seem too serious about this, and ill lay back abit. :)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Beachgirly 4 years ago
Beachgirly
cheesedingo1xxxallyssarulezxxxTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: YGO ftw