The Instigator
Kukithan
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Viana
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Pokemon

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Viana
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/7/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 670 times Debate No: 80660
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (2)

 

Kukithan

Con

Pokemon is loaded with Satanic symbols and subliminal messages. That is why I stopped playing.
Viana

Pro

I've got a feeling that I'm about to be trolled but here goes nothing

What exactly is the satanic symbolism displayed on pokemon?
Debate Round No. 1
Kukithan

Con

Don't worry, this is legit. Look at Kadabra. It has a pentagram on its forehead, and it tends to brandish the three-fingered equivalent of a "Hail Satan," which you might know as the "Rock on" hand-sign. To look at something less circumstantial, the three lightning bolts on its torso represent the Satan "s." When three are together, they can be read as, "Satan's Solemn Servant," similar to the way KISS actually stands for, "Kings In Satan's Service."
Viana

Pro

First of all a five pointed star is not the same thing as a pentagram and what kadabra has in it's forehead is a five point star. After extensive research on google images I have never stumbled into kadabra doing the "rock sign" or "hail satan sign" and even if I did I don't know why it would be seen as evidence of satanism. Finally the 3 Ss. I've tried looking up for meaning in these but nothing came up. The best I could find in various pokemon wiki's is a description of the feature which is described across the board as "three red wavy lines". I think it's far fetched to interpret these lines as Ss and even more far fetched that these mean Satan's Solemn Servant. I would like you to respond to the fact that what kadabra has in the forehead is a five pointed star. I would also like for you to provide images of kadabra doing these hand signs. And finally I would like for you to explain how you came to the conclusion that the wavy lines are Ss and to provide what evidence do you have at your disposal that proves supposed Ss actually mean "Satan's Solemn Servant"
Debate Round No. 2
Kukithan

Con

First of all, a five-pointed star IS the same as a pentagram. You are thinking of pentaGONs. I have been advised to drop the hand sign. But when you searched for the s, did you actually type "satanic s?" The imagery is clear. Now, the pentagram itself isn't evil. It's how you use it. The only time it is DEFINITELY evil is when it is in a circle, upside-down, or both. Even if the lines are just lightning bolts, that is still bad. Lightning bolts tend to represent Lucifer's fall from heaven. Now to prove my point, I will use a different example: Kadabra's name. The name of it and it evolved and pre-evolved forms are part of an incantation, which, contrary to popular belief, happens to be real, and even usable if one is open to demons. To address the argument that this stuff goes over the heads of children (and most people), I will point out that the subconscious mind absorbs everything. Children and parents are being desensitized. Here is a link: https://www.youtube.com....
Viana

Pro

It's not a pentagram. It's a five pointed star.
The defenition of a pentagram is: the shape of a five-pointed star drawn with five straight strokes.
Link here for more info: https://en.wikipedia.org...
I actually feel kind of insulted that you had me so low in consideration as to think I mixed up the concepts of pentagram and pentagon but let's gloss past that.
You specifically said that "The only time it is DEFINITELY evil is when it is in a circle, upside-down, or both.".
So even entertaining the argument that the five pointed star is a pentagram, which it isnt, according to yourself you can not definitely prove it is evil so that's that.
Now going back to the lighting or Ss or what it is described as in the wiki "red wavy lines". You mention lighting bolts tend to represent lucifer's fall from heaven.
Now I looked up the passages in the Bible that referred to Lucifer's fall from heaven. The fall is described in two passages; Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18.
In none of these is lightning ever mentioned. So I don't know where you found this information that Lucifer is somehow connected to lighting bolts but the Bible certainly does not mention that.
Now even if Lucifer was connected to lightning bolts somehow, you still failed to provide evidence that those (already giving you the benefit of the lines being lightning bolts) lightning bolts in Kadabra's stomach are a reference to Satan's lightning bolts.
Going to his name now: Once again you failed to provide any evidence to support your claim that Abra, Kadabra and Alakazam are words used to summon demons. I actually looked up the words and found they contained a much more innocuous, even beneficial (not that I believe that they have any effect whatsoever), meaning. Abracadabra's first known mention is from third century AD book called Liber Medicinalis which prescribes people afflicted by malaria to use an amulet with the word inscribed in it in a geometrical pattern. More information provided in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org...
What I found of alakazam was meaningless or contradictory with most references seeming to indicate conjuring or sudden transformation.
To finalize I just want to remind you that Kadabra evolves into Alakazam which is the mos powerful of the two. With the evolution all the "satanic symbolism" seems to disappear which means that the none satanic version is more powerful than the satanic version. How's that for sending a message of satan's might. Bear in mind that this last argument is even considering all you said to be true, which I don't believe it is and I think I justified my position accordingly.
It has been a pleasure debating you
A bit of a weird topic and you might want to get a checkup, but entertaining nonetheless.
Thank you for your time and may the best man win
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Viana 1 year ago
Viana
Yeah, you're making a positive claim. It's you who has to choose which arguments to present and my job is to try refute them
Posted by KyronTheWise 1 year ago
KyronTheWise
Correction, YOU got stuck on Kadabra. There was nothing stopping you from arguing with more examples.
Posted by Kukithan 1 year ago
Kukithan
I intended to use more arguments, but we got stuck on Kadabra.
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
GoOrDin
Kukithan

how day you give Satan privilege over such things as symbols!

Satan is a reference to Moral concepts and actions not symbolism.

Baalpeor was a reference to anal, oral, masturbation, dildos, prostitution, unfaithfulness, seduction with money and power, poppin cherries, orgies etc.. you had to poop before you when to go hang out with the godless rapists that they were. That is a reference to Satanism. Ballpeor can have several drawn symbols but he as an entity has no rights tot hem, they are God's.

The only thing a demon or devil has claim to is the immoral principals of they way that life is lead in their name.
Posted by Viana 1 year ago
Viana
His subliminal message proof was a two hour long youtube video that showed some tv show from the 70s whose host seemed to be a priest from Alabama and the guest was an ex high satanist priest
Posted by KyronTheWise 1 year ago
KyronTheWise
Look, I'm not one to typically criticize someone...but seriously, Kuki, there was a major lack of logic, or research on your part.
The pentagram thing, a pentagram is defined as a five point star drawn in five strokes. That means, not filled in. Also, even if it is, you crushed your own claim when you said a pentagram is only evil when it is in a circle, upside down, or both. Lets even assume this is true, and even that a pentagram is a five point star. The star on Kadabra's head? Right side up. So that's out.
You tossed out the hand sign nonsense on your own, so credit for that. Now all your argument relies on is the wavy lines.
First, your entire argument that there is Satanic Imagery in Pokemon is with one example. That, that right there? That already means a poor argument. Second, you're arguing that three wavy lines means either three S, which you claim to mean Satan's Solemn Servant, or later claim to be lightning bolts, which are tied to Satan.
Right, so I'm pretty sure lightning and thunder is tied closer to God than Satan. Your opponent already gave proof shutting down that claim. The S thing was also nonsense. One religion cannot lay claim to SSS standing for one thing in every case it appears.

The point is, you can't just say that this thing looks like that thing, and that thing is Satanic so the other is too. That is terrible logic. You need to prove that it was put there to spread a Satanic message.

Furthermore, you never even proved subliminal messaging! Hell, you never even MENTIONED it. In my philosophy classes. If you were to make an argument with 2 premises, and never even mentioned one of them throughout the argument, you'd be punted out.
Posted by rabbidrabbid 1 year ago
rabbidrabbid
I'm shocked. I'm actually shocked that ANYONE can believe Pokemon is evil. Best of luck to Viana, because I'm definitely voting for them.
Posted by mrPrime 1 year ago
mrPrime
Pokemon in general as a concept can be twisted into a very negative light. I can give you that much, but to see these "subliminal" and "satanic" messages you see, one would have to have a warped mind and reach for implications that my have been coincidentally designed purely by accident. It may be easy to see evidence of these claims, if you already think that way, but as the traditional 8 - 16yr old targeted consumer, such probably completely bypasses perception.
Posted by KyronTheWise 1 year ago
KyronTheWise
In response to V's argument, he claimed that three S's could be read as such. Technically true. The more important claim is if it is reasonable to do so.

Almost missed that pentagram part. Yeah, five point star isn't a pentagram. If it is, then alot of Christmas tree toppers are in fact, Satanic, if Satanism can ruin the pentagram for everyone.

Already made my point on the three fingered hand.

I'm just going to boil down my argument here. You cannot claim imagery is of a specific bent or another without knowing the intent. Example: Swastika. Ya know, other cultures used it before Hitler. In some forms, it's good luck, in others, it means bad luck for Jews. The intent changes it. Prove that Pokemon designers specifically placed imagery with the intent that it be referencing Satan.
Posted by KyronTheWise 1 year ago
KyronTheWise
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm not the contender in the debate, but I feel I have to make some points.
First, the ' Hail Satan' hand sign. Yes, the description of one you gave, the rock on handsign, with the two middle fingers curled and the rest pointing out, is apparently Satanic. Here is the issue. Kadabra, the Pokemon, only has three fingers. To argue that it must be using an equivalent of a five fingered handsign, as the curled fingers as as important to the gesture as the pointing ones, is a bit farfetched (pun not intended).

Next, the bolts on its pelvis, or equivalent. Okay, they look like three S's. That is reasonable to say, they do kinda look like S's. That's not what you need to prove. You need to prove that those, along with the hand gesture, are specifically Satanic Imagery. For example, that infamous set of letters in Lion King, the ones that appeared to spell out SEX. Well, the animators argued that it was meant, and actually said, SFX. The intention behind the creation is what matters.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Richardsonalj 1 year ago
Richardsonalj
KukithanVianaTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Viana was able to argue that Pokemon doesn't support satanic ideas. I found that Viana had better spelling and grammar, compared to Con. Both sited a website, so no one won most reliable sources. Viana wins.
Vote Placed by mrPrime 1 year ago
mrPrime
KukithanVianaTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: gg