The Instigator
TeeJayFlow
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points

Police - The new domestic military

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/31/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 714 times Debate No: 19063
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

TeeJayFlow

Con

Directly from my blog http://teejayflow.blogspot.com...

Take your time reading these articles. Witness the true magnitude of corruption. This is what our nation has succumb to. This is what it is to be a "protector". This is the direction that our government has allowed, and our people have ignored.

http://www.alternet.org...

Police using steel barriers to cage in protesters to the sidewalks, claiming it is to "keep people out of the roads for traffic" when in reality, majority of people actually walk in that area so there really isn't any traffic. Not to mention police are in those areas in the middle of the roads and arresting people for climbing over the barriers or just walking on the road side of them. The police are ignoring any contact with them regarding the "illegality" of being on the road side of the barriers. Citizens of the area claim that the police are much more of a problem than the protesters themselves! The peaceful protesters have marched by buildings and such and done nothing violent or costly to anyone except for walking(stated by a business owner in that area, who also claimed the barriers were hurting his business), yet the police are arresting people left and right for crimes the police themselves provoked. It is as if the police get paid for every person they lock up regardless of the charges and they just think a peaceful protest is a jackpot for victims.

http://www.alternet.org...

We fight against terrorism for decades in the Middle East while the domestic "public protectors" arm with bulletproof suits and grenade launchers and fully-automatic machine guns against peaceful protesters whom they arrest under fraudulent charges and astronomically exaggerated fairy tales... Meanwhile our economy crumbles. These Neo-Nazis make me sick. At least when Nazi Germany was around their economy was prosperous. We just have corrupt SOLDIERS("police") meeting a quota of corrupt arrests because they see a peaceful protest as a jackpot, further killing our economy by draining our tax dollars to pay for these gluttonous hogs to feast on the weak and peaceful victims, protesters. Is it hog hunting season yet? Get your shotguns ready.

http://www.alternet.org...

The police are minions of the constitution. Yet they outright violate people's rights that were given on the HIGHEST LEVEL LAW OF THE LAND, THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION. How does the lowest level of government (police) get away with breaking the highest level of rules (the constitution)? The government better start doing their job that WE PAY THEM TO DO. Or a revolution will happen, a very much needed one. No longer will we stay the victims of those that we employ. YOU WORK FOR US, YOU WILL DO WHAT WE WANT. Don't forget that, feds.
imabench

Pro

I read this Rush Limbaugh's dream child's blog that he posted about police practices and I fail to see three things.
1) Reason
2) Facts
3) Fairness

As for his first argument, A barrier is an object used to separate things, so keeping say protesters out of the way of traffic is probably a good idea. The traffic in this case would not be cars, but other people who have places to go and may be delayed if having to go through an occupy wall street demonstration.... So using steel barriers to keep everyone safe is a good idea, and those who violate the barriers are breaking the law and have subjected themselves to arrest, that is if they even get arrested.

As for police brutality, that I am against, and it does happen, but I think the con goes a little far by suggesting that they brutalize citizens so that they can arrest them just for money for themselves...... especially since he didn't provide any facts to back up this argument

The sources you offered come from one website which is a die hard tea-party supportive website that is against all things capitalism and government so I assume that this is a biased source

"We fight against terrorism for decades in the Middle East while the domestic "public protectors" arm with bulletproof suits and grenade launchers and fully-automatic machine guns against peaceful protesters whom they arrest under fraudulent charges and astronomically exaggerated fairy tales"

How the does terrorism have anything to do with this? by the way the con seems to fail at giving the distinction between the police and the riot police. We dont live in a society where every cop carries bulletproof suits, grenade launchers, and automatic machine guns. In fact even the riot police dont have grenade launchers and machine guns they have batons and teargas launchers, both of which are very non-lethal.....

"These Neo-Nazis make me sick. At least when Nazi Germany was around their economy was prosperous"

Clearly you dont know sh*t about nazism because in Nazi Germany people couldnt speak their minds, be politically free, sell to jews, rent property to jews, and Im pretty sure that their entire economy was manufacturing weapons of war such as cyanide gas, Zyklon-B, etc. So you might want to think about what you compare our government to.

"they see a peaceful protest as a jackpot, further killing our economy by draining our tax dollars to pay for these gluttonous hogs to feast on the weak and peaceful victims, protesters. Is it hog hunting season yet? Get your shotguns ready."

This sounds more like ranting then actual debating so Ill let the readers decide for themselves whether you view may be slightly biased or not factually supported, or both.................. (answer is both)

"The police are minions of the constitution." says you and the biased incompetent website you took it from...

"The government better start doing their job that WE PAY THEM TO DO. Or a revolution will happen, a very much needed one. No longer will we stay the victims of those that we employ. YOU WORK FOR US, YOU WILL DO WHAT WE WANT. Don't forget that, feds"

I have no idea where the con buys his meth, but so far all of these points of view are coming for his own very warped perception of reality where his entire debate so far is ranting, ranting, ranting, nazi reference, ranting, ranting, ranting, hog hunting season, police pigs, ranting, go look at my blog.....

Now as for my very reasonable counter argument.....
The police do society a lot of good. They respond very quickly to local emergencies and they do protect us from coming into harm. When the bank down the street from where I lived got robbed a police officer actually parked in my driveway to try to find the criminal(s) before they caused harm to anyone, so I believe that the police do make people safe from that example alone. Furthermore, the police do not take orders from the national government, the state government, or really any government. They are given orders from their dispatchers and other protection agencies to coordinate when a situation has developed and they form a plan to contain the situation and keep others safe.

As for the occupy wall street demonstrations. People are being harassed by some, not all, not most, only some, police officers who are only trying to keep order over the demonstrations. Some over-react, some do something they ultimately regret. But we do not live in a society where every cop from New York to San Francisco is trying to find a reason to throw us behind bars so that they can get paid.

Anyone who is reading this line right now may want to take some time to prepare themselves for the Con's next hate-filled argument
Debate Round No. 1
TeeJayFlow

Con

I will start off by saying anything I say now is not to be taken as my final word, do not limit me to two sections of three in order to instill your self-assured "victory" you think you have.

You say I have no resources yet you show no resources of your own except for your gradual list of insults, I could get that level of information from a troll. I like how you call me out and claim my views are moronic and biased. Sure, I am biased. Biased in fact, against the blissfully ignorant and the predator such as yourself. Point at me as the problem, that'll achieve what has already been achieved, ignorance in regard to this topic. Let it be known how much you want to let people go on being as unprepared as you are. Have you ever thought for a minute about what being bias can be? Unwilling to accept the bullcrap and pushing for the truth to be known. That's your bias. Now that you've been corrected on that, I will further correct you on everything else.

You say that people are busy and have a place to go but they aren't in cars... You claim that people have places to be and can't get to where they have to be in ample time. Yet, putting barriers on the sidewalk saying people HAVE to stay on the sidewalk doesn't make more room for those people who have to get places. Do you think they have some certificate that says they have permission to walk on the road because they're going somewhere? No, they don't. And if they do, where are YOUR facts? How can people who have somewhere to go get there in a faster amount of time with less space to move around? How is a blocked sidewalk a better passage than an entire street, including the sidewalk as well? As for those "breaking the law" by going over the barriers, they weren't given notice that it's illegal to do so, and when they were contacted, the police didn't respond to any form of communication regarding the topic. Which, if you read my SOURCE THAT I PUT FOR A REASON, the information did in fact come from them. http://www.alternet.org...
And here's another article talking about the police corruption going on http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com...

They DO brutalize citizens so they can meet their quota. Every officer has a quota of arrests. Here's your source. http://consumerist.com...
I thought it was general knowledge. Perhaps you're not as smart as you make yourself out to be.

The War on Terrorism has to do with this in the terms that the police are starting to act like they're the military. If you really think they don't have a locker room full of machine guns, grenades, and pretty much anything that would be illegal for a citizen to own, then you are misinformed to the nth degree. http://www.ajc.com...
Grenades: http://tinyurl.com...

I don't know anything about Nazism eh? Is that why I made a reference to it then? No. It isn't. I referred to Nazis because in Nazi Germany you are right, people couldn't speak their minds, or be politically free. That was the analogy I was giving. The police are using fear to keep people from speaking their minds, and being politically free. AKA throwing grenades and threatening with guns, then arresting peaceful protesters. The reference of their booming economy was to point out that even under the highest amount of corrupt their economy was doing better than ours. And we make a lot more war goods than you think.
According to this http://www.germanmilitaryhistory.com... Nazi Germany "In 1936, Hitler instituted a Four-Year Plan for the economy under Reichsmarschall (Reich Marshal) Herman Göring. The idea was designed to centralize the economy. However, as with everything else in the Third Reich, the rivalry of higher-ranking officials, encouraged by Hitler, meant that the economy remained a battlefield for various competing interests, even within the armed forces themselves. Despite these inefficiencies, Germany rebuilt its military. Spending on the armed forces, however, was consuming 50 percent of the budget, or approximately 60 billion reichsmarks, per year. Hjalmar Schacht, head of the Reichsbank, pointed out that this level of expenditure could not be sustained."
According to Wikipedia, the http://en.wikipedia.org... "The Reichsmark was put on the gold standard at the rate previously used by the Goldmark, with the U.S. dollar worth 4.2 ℛℳ." Meaning the US dollar in WWII times.
According to http://data.bls.gov... 60 billion reichsmarks would be worth $233.143 billion today. Multiply that by about 3.4 in order to get the populations even, you get roughly $792 billion dollars being spent by Nazi Germany. So they spent that much on the military in 1936, while we spend http://en.wikipedia.org... $685.1 billion, they spent about 15% more than we do, after all the adjustments have been made.

Let's break it down to you. Police get paid based on how "good" they do their job. As people get arrested, they get more money as they're meeting their quota, as I linked to you above. As well as the cost to the individual dealing with court and the tax dollars involved if they get prosecuted.

Make all the implications you want. Your entire response was asking me where my references were, and here they are. Now where are YOUR references? The police ARE the minions of constitution. They're the lowest form of law enforcement on the hierarchy, whereas the United States Constitution is the highest form. They disregard the law of the land. The government DOES work for us. It's a government "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE". Our tax dollars go towards their salaries. Our tax dollars are going to a less than 15% Congress approval rate, and a failing president. When the government disregards us as their employers, it's the spark of a revolution.

Also thanks for the insulting innuendo due to your lack of better content. Your "warped perception of reality" remark has just been invalidated.

For every few apples there's a rotten apple. But rotten apples can also be entire police departments themselves. I didn't disregard police as never protecting people, but I did focus on the fact this corruption and neglect is happening under our noses and it isn't right. Being oblivious isn't right neither, as you obviously are, hence the verbal attacks you've made on me. The police are PAID BY US, and are to follow the guidelines of the United States Constitution. As well as their state constitutions. Who did they keep safe in the Occupy movements? If anything the police did more damage than the people were capable of doing.

There goes your "hate-filled argument". Perhaps you're the bias one in this.
imabench

Pro

Alright now I have something to work with :D

We agree your biased but then you attack me for being biased by according to how "Unwilling to accept the bullcrap and pushing for the truth to be known" I am....... I dont see how being UNWILLING to accept bullcrap makes me biased... As for pushing for the truth to be known I have given what I believe is the truth, that truth being that the police are here to protect us, that they do that job fairly well, and that they are not pawns of the government......

"putting barriers on the sidewalk saying people HAVE to stay on the sidewalk doesn't make more room for those people who have to get places." Well see if you have a group of people standing still (the protesters) and you have other people in the same area trying to get to other places (the others) then the others will have trouble getting on with their lives. There are a lot of "others" In New York City and an ever growing number of protesters also In New York City, so if you take the people who are acting as roadblocks, and then move them about 6 feet to the left onto the sidewalks where they can stay and protest while others can get on with their day, then that could make things easier for the others....

"Do you think they have some certificate that says they have permission to walk on the road because they're going somewhere?' No I dont, you dont need a certificate to go to work.......

The point of moving people out of the way is so that it frees up more space within an area (like the street) for people to walk through instead of people having to make way through the crowd in both the street and the sidewalk

"It's to keep people from spilling into the street and blocking traffic," - from your source

Your article of police corruption talks about 6 arrests over the period of a day, 3 people were wearing ski masks, 1 person graffitied on a bank, and another person had an altercation with an officer. 5 out of 6 arrests were justified while the last was a misunderstanding, not really police corruption.

New York City cops do have a quota, but the one (and only one) cop in your source didnt bother to mention that the quota applies only to summonses (traffic tickets and that stuff) not arrests for Occupy Wall Street demonstrations. There are many sources that do say that quotas exist, but the quotas are only for tickets and minor traffic infractions, not arrests
http://www.nytimes.com...

"The Police start to act like the military."..... You mean the same military who put their lives on the line for the safety of the rest of us back home, then sure I dont mid the police acting like the military. The first source you provided is riot police using pellet guns and pepper spray on Occupy Denver protestors, It says nothing that suggests they are armed to their teeth in automatic weapons like you claim.

http://www.ajc.com...

As for your grenades source. It is a youtube video with a voice over of someone who is also trying to make the police look bad. For the record they are not actual grenades, they are FLASH grenades, which do far far less harm than the grenades your implying they used.

(see video above)


"I don't know anything about Nazism eh? Is that why I made a reference to it then? No. It isn't. I referred to Nazis because in Nazi Germany you are right, people couldn't speak their minds, or be politically free. That was the analogy I was giving"

How do you get THAT analogy from this sentence?

"These Neo-Nazis make me sick. At least when Nazi Germany was around their economy was prosperous. We just have corrupt SOLDIERS("police")........... Is it hog hunting season yet? Get your shotguns ready."

Next time you use a Nazism reference you may want to make sure that the message your trying to send sounds more like a message and not a declaration of war. As for the economic comparison, Nazi Germany's economy at its height lost a massive war to the country following its lowest height (the great depression), and Nazi Germany got their a$$ kicked....

Your next source about the power of the German currency you completely miss.... 1 US dollar was equal to 4.2 German reichsmarks , meaning that the German dollar was 4.2x less valuable then the american dollar...... Your next source to calculate the value of the German currency is actually a US inflation calculator.... not an estimator of discontinued German currency and its value today

Your math is completely messed up on both accounts which invalidate your argument which doesnt even relate to the US police....

Police dont get paid based off of how many arrests they make, they are paid on an hourly basis just like everybody else

http://www.bls.gov...

"Your entire response was asking me where my references were" Well yeah I did...... Because of the 4 links you provided one was one from your own blog where you copy pasted your entire first argument, your other 3 are from the same website that sing a different song then what you claim they sing......... Thank you for actually providing sources this time even though you still used some of them wrong......

"Police are minions of the constitution"....... Thats cute but the police are agencies of law enforcement contracted by state and local governments to keep order and prevent conflict on the local level

"They're the lowest form of law enforcement on the hierarchy"........ There isnt a hierarchy of law enforcement and if there was I think school hall monitor would be at the bottom not the city police force.....

"They disregard the law of the land"........ They enforce the laws of the Constitution and they do a very good job of it

"It's a government "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE". Our tax dollars go towards their salaries. Our tax dollars are going to a less than 15% Congress approval rate, and a failing president. "......... We dont live in a democracy, we live in a constitutional republic where the people elect others to represent them........ as for tax dollars that money goes into a lot of things before it goes into politician's wallets.

Those include Social Security, Medicare, defense, pensions, affirmative action programs, etc.
http://cman.cx...

"When the government disregards us as their employers, it's the spark of a revolution."........ No it sends their approval ratings down to less than 20% and gets them voted out the next election

The Police are not corruption-riddled government agencies trying to stay in power, these are the services our police officers provide

To prevent and control conduct widely recognized as threatening to life and property
To aid individuals who are in danger of physical harm, such as the victims of violent attack
To facilitate the movement of people and vehicles
To assist those who cannot care for themselves, the intoxicated, the addicted, the mentally ill, the physically disables, the old, and the young
To resolve conflict, whether it be between individuals, groups or individuals, or individuals and their government
To identify problems that have the potential for becoming more serious
To create and maintain a feeling of security

The Police are not corrupt hogs that the Con believes they are, the majority of them are good officers who want to protect people and make society safe
Debate Round No. 2
TeeJayFlow

Con

I was calling you biased in the aspect you were trying to use on me.

Well see if you have a group of people standing still (the protesters) and you have other people in the same area trying to get to other places (the others) then the others will have trouble getting on with their lives.

Those "other people" weren't just allowed to walk in the street. They had to walk on the sidewalks as well. The crowded, loud, unbudging sidewalks, condensing people like alaskan king crabs.

There are many sources that do say that quotas exist, but the quotas are only for tickets and minor traffic infractions, not arrests

I have friends who are police and they have told me they have to arrest a certain amount of people a year, as well as my friends who have officer acquaintances who have said the same thing, and we live in two completely different areas.

As for your grenades source. It is a youtube video with a voice over of someone who is also trying to make the police look bad. For the record they are not actual grenades, they are FLASH grenades, which do far far less harm than the grenades your implying they used.

The video clearly shows that officer throwing a grenade into a group of people trying to help someone. Flash grenades have shrapnel too bud. http://www.theagitator.com...

Next time you use a Nazism reference you may want to make sure that the message your trying to send sounds more like a message and not a declaration of war. As for the economic comparison, Nazi Germany's economy at its height lost a massive war to the country following its lowest height (the great depression), and Nazi Germany got their a$$ kicked

Nazi Germany lost a massive war because they were getting hit from Russia on one side and all of the allies on the other. They would have dominated the world if they didn't cross Russia. So no, they didn't lose a war to America, they lost a war against several nations combined.

Your next source about the power of the German currency you completely miss.... 1 US dollar was equal to 4.2 German reichsmarks , meaning that the German dollar was 4.2x less valuable then the american dollar...... Your next source to calculate the value of the German currency is actually a US inflation calculator.... not an estimator of discontinued German currency and its value today

Your math is completely messed up on both accounts which invalidate your argument which doesnt even relate to the US police

Wow, your mathematical skills are disgraceful... I divided 60 billion by 4.2 and got 14.286 billion. I then multiplied 14.286 billion by the inflated value as the dollar was worth much more back then. One dollar from 1936 is worth $16.32 today. $14.286 billion x $16.32 = $233.14 billion dollars. I adjusted their population which was roughly 90 million to meet our population which is 300+, hence the "multiply that by about 3.4" 90 million x 3.4 = 306 million people, about our population. So multiply $233.14 billion by 3.4 and you get $792 billion. Whereas we spent $685.1 billion just in 2010. Don't spite me just because you never learned math. So shut up, your ignorance invalidates your entire debate.

But I will continue.

"Police are minions of the constitution"....... Thats cute but the police are agencies of law enforcement contracted by state and local governments to keep order and prevent conflict on the local level

So...? When it gets down to it, the constitution is their guidelines, their ruler, their master.

"They're the lowest form of law enforcement on the hierarchy"........ There isnt a hierarchy of law enforcement and if there was I think school hall monitor would be at the bottom not the city police force.....

Oh there isn't? What about the FBI? DEA? ICE? The hierarchy starts at the point where you can have someone formally arrested and charged in a court of law.

"They disregard the law of the land"........ They enforce the laws of the Constitution and they do a very good job of it

No, they flex their probable cause in every situation where they can make it sound realistic.

"It's a government "BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE". Our tax dollars go towards their salaries. Our tax dollars are going to a less than 15% Congress approval rate, and a failing president. "......... We dont live in a democracy, we live in a constitutional republic where the people elect others to represent them........ as for tax dollars that money goes into a lot of things before it goes into politician's wallets.

By the way their salaries start at $170,000 a year regardless of where tax money goes that year.

"When the government disregards us as their employers, it's the spark of a revolution."........ No it sends their approval ratings down to less than 20% and gets them voted out the next election

Yeah, because people would rather wait for the ground to give in to the pressure and suck everyone down the abyss instead of fighting what they know is wrong.

The Police are not corruption-riddled government agencies trying to stay in power, these are the services our police officers provide

Incorrect. They are the lowest form of law enforcement and they're also the most capable to get away with things because they're surveillanced the least.

And as for your last list of things, of course that's what their duties are on the surface, that's common knowledge and quite frankly you wasted your time writing that.

The Police are not corrupt hogs that the Con believes they are, the majority of them are good officers who want to protect people and make society safe

Ahah. If that was the case they would join the military. More money in that. Police are given immunity strictly on the fact that they are police. It's a fullproof way to keep from getting in trouble and being able to bend the rules to your command because "you said so"

Pro has stated continuously of how the police are the polar opposite of what people - including myself - have witnessed and been through. It's obvious his obliviousness - his massive gullibility - has a check on his reality. Those of us who have had the experience of going through the system know it didn't have to go like it did, and it only did because the police made it like that. Those select few who do their job honestly and with true good morality above self benefit deserve the positives that Pro has granted them. But that majority who joined to take advantage and have that invisible wall around them do not. My conclusion is the same as my thesis.
imabench

Pro

"I have friends who are police and they have told me they have to arrest a certain amount of people a year" Am I the only person who thinks that A) you made this up and B) The fact that you have shown tremendous hatred towards the police implies you would never ever ever have any friends that happen to be police officers who happen to have told you there is a quota for arrests....

I find it a little concerning that the Con cannot tell the difference between a flash grenade and an actual military-grade grenade

The Con has also not offered a counter argument to why he feels that living in Nazi Germany is better than living in America...

I like how the claims I havent learned math when he thinks that
$1 = $4.2 R and in the same sentence states that,
$233 Billion = $60 billion R..... A 4 year old could figure out that the ratios dont match

Con has forfeited how the police are allegedly minions of the Constitution
Con has forfeited how we live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy
Con has forfeited how we spend the majority of our budget on programs that do not go to law enforcement
Con has forfeited how armed the local police are
Con has forfeited how all cops are evil and has admitted there are some good ones
Con has countered all my other arguments in the third round with either opinions or rantings, no evidence or facts

But wait, look at this, his very last argument
"Those of us who have had the experience of going through the system know it didn't have to go like it did"

It all makes sense now..... The Con was arrested for something!!!!!!!

He went through the system where he was caught doing something illegal, he didnt like how he was treated, and hes been ranting against the police on his blog ever since and only now has been using rare occurrences of police brutality from the Occupy Wall Street movements to try to justify his biased hatred towards cops :O

I rest my case
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
Why thank you :D
p.s. I know you new so here's some advice, dont ever, ever, ever let people know about anything that happens in your life that they could use against you at the very end of a debate in the last round when you cannot offer a counter argument

Sincerely - imabench
Posted by TeeJayFlow 2 years ago
TeeJayFlow
You're such an ignoramus. I sat there and explained exactly how you get those numbers and you act like a preschooler who just learned addition. Grow up. And keep people's personal lives out of your spiteful responses kid.
Posted by TeeJayFlow 2 years ago
TeeJayFlow
At least I won't be lying to make people vote for me. AKA politicians. I'll get over it
Posted by Lordknukle 2 years ago
Lordknukle
I can assure you that you are not making a positive name for yourself.

WTF.com:
A place to rant

You should visit is sometimes.
Posted by TeeJayFlow 2 years ago
TeeJayFlow
I'll assume that's rhetorical.
Posted by drafterman 2 years ago
drafterman
So... which is it?
Posted by TeeJayFlow 2 years ago
TeeJayFlow
Well I could have a debate where no one knows my views or knowledge, in the end being anonymous vs anonymous. Or I could make a name for myself in adjusting general education in regard to people's ignorance of endless subjects.
Posted by drafterman 2 years ago
drafterman
Are you here to actually debate, or just promote your blog?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by randolph7 2 years ago
randolph7
TeeJayFlowimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Godwin's law.
Vote Placed by googlemabob 2 years ago
googlemabob
TeeJayFlowimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: This whole round goes to pro for me. His arguments were better but together, his conduct was more debate-worthy, and the sources he used were from more unbiased sites. No contest here.
Vote Placed by Lordknukle 2 years ago
Lordknukle
TeeJayFlowimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Too many ad homs from Con.