The Instigator
RepublicanView333
Pro (for)
Winning
39 Points
The Contender
governments_kill
Con (against)
Losing
20 Points

Politically Correctness is Politically Incorrect in itself

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,655 times Debate No: 736
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (18)
Votes (19)

 

RepublicanView333

Pro

To be Politically Correct is all ways stressed to people. To be politically correct is to:
describe language, ideas, policies, or behaviour seen as seeking to minimize offence to racial, cultural, or other identity groups. Conversely, the term politically incorrect is used to refer to language or ideas that may cause offense or that are unconstrained by orthodoxy

I believe to be Politically Correct is to be in itself Politically Incorrect.(HaHa what a paradox)

To be Politically Correct you can't express your religion or beliefs because it might exclude or insult someone elses. I really thought of this today in my homebase when we started talking about not being able to say Merry Christmas because you had to say Happy Holidays to not offend anyone else who celebrated Hanakah or Kwanza. (srry 4 my spelling might be...Poltitically Incorrect)

Now being Politically Correct is to be in itself Politically Incorrect because it stops people from expressing there own religion or beliefs...Does that make sense?
governments_kill

Con

I'd like to use this definition of political correctness if that is alright.

American Heritage Dictionary politically correct adj. Abbr. PC

Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.

I think it is a little more clear than the one that you had proposed because for me it involves much more than simply describing ideas or beliefs. In fact, your definition actually excludes the situation that you were characterizing as offensive. Wishing someone a happy holiday or a merry christmas is much more than describing a set of ideas. So I hope we can agree to use my definition, and I will agree to focus this argument primarily on language, since that is what it appeared you are most distraught by.

Now that I have outlined the framework I'll respond to your assertion first, before presenting my own support of politically correct language. To begin, I have never heard of a situation where someone was prevented from "express your religion or beliefs" due to political correctness. I have heard of a few situations where a local government was not allowed to recognize one religious holiday without due recognition to all religious holidays. This is not the same as what you are asserting. No one has stopped anyone from celebrating Christmas. (I'm using the Christian religion here, because that is the only way in which this critique could be situated as you'll see from my later arguments.) If it got to the point where people were forbidden from worshipping or celebrating Christmas, it would no longer be political correctness. At that point Jon Gibson would be right to call it a "War on Christmas." Until then, it is simply an attempt to not allow the dominant religion to force itself on everyone in the country, state, county, township, whatever. Folks who aren't Christian shouldn't be forced to subsidize Christmas displays. That's political correctness on a policy level.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume that you're talking about a personal level using the terminology Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. If you say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, how does that prohibit you from expressing your own religion or beliefs? Is Christmas not a holiday? The point of politically correct language is that it is all encompassing. Even atheists will celebrate the New Year, which is included in "Have a Happy Holiday." So I think that it does absolutely no damage to the Christian speaker to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

To further this discussion, I think it is a positive thing to recognize the existence of other holidays. This country may be majority Christian, but that does not mean that it is a "Christian Nation." There is a first amendment freedom of expression clause, which means that folks are legally able to choose their religious identity. Even though, this is not a Christian Nation, non-Christian folks are still largely excluded from public life. We've never had a non-Christian president, and you can count the Senators that are non-Christian on a hand. This creates a whole society that ends up working against the interests of non-Christian folks. Our work day is clearly not geared toward Muslims who have to pray five times a day. We adapt and tolerate, but it's far from an attitude of genuine inclusion. This current "War on the War on Christmas" is simply an attempt to compound the privilege of Christians and further entrench Christian supremacy in this society. I feel that it is a much better thing to recognize the existence of other religious traditions and religious holidays and not further marginalize folks who aren't Christian.

Further, I think there are many more benefits to political correctness that go beyond the issue of religion. It's politically correct to not use racial slurs or sexist jargon. Is that also keeping people from expressing their beliefs? If that offends racists and sexists, I'm alright with that. Dominant groups should not be afforded the additional privilege of using language to further lower the self-esteem of marginalized groups. Instead, this nation of "E Pluribus Unum" (Out of many, one) should work to build as inclusive a society as possible. Politically correct language is one part of that. The broader project, which was outlined in my proposed definition, is the overthrow of structural impediments to realizing this society that allows people the freedom to define themselves and not suffer any setbacks because of how they choose to live.
Debate Round No. 1
RepublicanView333

Pro

Well, my debate was why "Politically Correctness is Politically Incorrect in itself" you pretty much described to my why to be Politically Correct.

Really what I see in Politically Correctness is PC stopping people from expressing there Beliefs and Religion...

Like the Happy Holidays thing...when i say "Merry Christmas" do i push my religion on Jews or Muslims...no...all im doing is expressing myself...When im forced to be PC i'm stoped from using my first amendment...When I'm PC i'm stopped from using my rights i got from the Bill...of Rights. I don't say...hey you jew...hey you Muslim...hey you athiest...bow down and worship Christ...all im doing is enjoying my holiday and using the right i got from the first amendment...

Now... the goverment has to be PC b/c if it chooses one holiday over another than its in trouble but I shouldn't have to stop saying the name of my holiday just b/c i have to be PC.

So, since your debate will be the last one...only 2 rounds...please address and debate why to be Politically Correct ISN'T Politically Incorrect
governments_kill

Con

To address your concern that I only described why to be politically correct, I felt that the only conclusion that could be drawn from your argument was to abandon political correctness as a standard of behavior. I think that this is the wrong method to take and therefore I offered additional reasons to adopt "politically correct" behavior. However, I also felt that I offered defensive reasons why "political correctness" was not "politically incorrect in itself." Seeing as how my arguments may have been lost in the broader argument above, I will repeat them since you appear to not be advocating the conclusion that I assumed had to be drawn from your original argument.

That said, this response will be directed specifically at the claim that you articulated in the topic.
You unfortuntely did not see a response to your claim that the statement "Merry Christmas" does not push your views on others. Not only do I feel that I offered a response to that above, I also thought that I offered reasons why saying Happy Holidays did not violate your freedom of expression or beliefs. I will now rearticulate these supports.

You say, "Really what I see in Politically Correctness is PC stopping people from expressing there Beliefs and Religion." However, (this is quoted from above) "No one has stopped anyone from celebrating Christmas. (I'm using the Christian religion here, because that is the only way in which this critique could be situated as you'll see from my later arguments.) If it got to the point where people were forbidden from worshipping or celebrating Christmas, it would no longer be political correctness." You are not stopped from celebrating Christmas simply from assuming that other folks are celebrating Christmas.

You say, "Like the Happy Holidays thing...when i say "Merry Christmas" do i push my religion on Jews or Muslims?" You claim that the answer to this question is no, but I strongly disagree. While you may not be forcing them to worship as you assume, you are in fact restricting their freedom of expression. Muslims, Jewish folks, Buddhists, etc. do not celebrate Christmas. Atheists do not celebrate any holiday. When you say "Merry Christmas" you act as if that is the only legitimate expression of religious identity. This does not account for folks that are non-Christian and don't recognize Christmas as a holiday. However, everyone in the United States, around the latter half of December, will recognize at least one holiday. Some folks have religious holidays (such as Christian folks with Christmas and Jewish folks and Chanukkah) while everyone at least recognizes the arrival of the new calendar year. This is a broad based and secular holiday. Therefore, the "politically correct language" avoids assumptions or the possibility of further marginalization, while still allowing people to freely express their form of religious identity. As I had said earlier, "If you say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, how does that prohibit you from expressing your own religion or beliefs? Is Christmas not a holiday?" To say that it prohibits your free expression is to say that Christmas is not a holiday. Christmas is included in the phrase "Happy Holidays" while Chanukkah is not included in the phrase "Merry Christmas." So while it would not be offensive to wish someone that you know celebrates Christmas a "Merry Christmas," it is a totally different situation with folks that you don't know.

To clarify this argument, I think that I offered many arguments why political correctness is a beneficial thing. I did this, because I feel that the only conclusion that can be drawn from your argument is to abandon politically correct language. Even if this is not the conclusion to be drawn from your argument, I feel that I have sufficiently responded to your concerns with "political correctness," while you failed to articulate any reasons why it does limit or marginalize folks in the dominant group. If you can't answer my question of whether Christmas is a holiday in the negative, then it is impossible to articulate that Christians are limited by wishing people a "Happy Holiday." This argument on its own is sufficient to side with the "Con" in this argument as it proves beyond a doubt that political correctness includes more people while not marginalizing anyone. It was nice debating with you and thanks for following up.
Debate Round No. 2
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
but i still voted for you because pro just didn't argue it all that well. no offense, i even side with him, but con got my vote.
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
i felt that in round 2 you failed to show how saying merry christmas kept them from their right to freedom of expression. it jsut didn't cut it for me.
Posted by governments_kill 9 years ago
governments_kill
Just for some feedback, I was wondering what I could have done to not lose. Also, I now realize that I disagree that political correctness is stressed at all to folks, but that doesn't matter.
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
thanks solarman...iggles fight for 500...
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
wow, solarman, i actually agreed mostly with that last comment you made!
and...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
i sincerely hope you're all still able to express your beliefs.
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
i totally agree with pro and actually considered starting debates about PC, Con argued better, (though not without it's flaws). I vote for con.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
right on Kid!

you are way ahead of the game and I love the Iggles too! (good Philly speech there)

Liberals only beleive in free speech for THEMSELVES

look at what happens to conservatives who want to go talk on the liberal campuses (most were taken over and inflitrated in the 60s by USSR trained communists who wanted to undermine america from within)

they are shouted down and called

Racist!

Sexist !

Homophobe !

and whatever other crap that the idiot liberals throw at them

they CANNOT STAND free speech by conservatives who RUN CIRLCES around them, befuddle and confuse them, pierce their stupid mypoic world view, and thus, SCARE them.

Kudos to you kid!

Rush, Shaun, Mike, Mark and the rest are your BEST refuge from the constant liberalism you will get in school and from your friends

Now be careful !

Girls especially are LIBERALS and are easily scared off by good hard nosed conservatives (my wife is a gorgeous liberal social worker but really is a conservative deep down inside)

So be CAREFUL about trashing their world view

just some advice from a good coservative philly boy!

cheers and merry christmas

solarman
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
umm ya its a paradox..umm contradicts itself
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
"This sentence is False.":-)
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