The Instigator
Stephenknowsbest
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ragnar
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Pop music is bland and made just for money

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Ragnar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2015 Category: Music
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,065 times Debate No: 74255
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Stephenknowsbest

Pro

Pop music is very bland and is just for the money and fame. Nobody wants creative or new music, because all they want is a beat and a song about somebody's girlfriend breaking up with them.
Ragnar

Con

"is very bland and is just for the money and fame."
Thank for for conceding the argument, as the resolution calls for "just money."

"all they want is a beat and a song about somebody's girlfriend breaking up with them."
Not true, there are non-gay male pop singers, along with straight female pop singers. As for the song, cue first YouTube video [1]

"Bland"
Bland is easily refuted, as the songs are often very different as shown in the second YouTube video [2]. If they are good to everyone's taste, is irrelevant to them not being bland.

"just for money"
An increasing trend of narcissistic singers has taken gold in pop music [3]. Narcissistic Personality disorder is described by PhychCenteral as "an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others..." [4]. Making music to fill an overwhelming need for admiration, is making music for something other than money.
I could prove a hundred other healthy reasons, such as helping others [1], but even one reason is enough to wholly refute the argument.

Sources:
[1] YouTube: Colbie Caillat "Try"
[2] YouTube: Billboard Top 25 Pop Songs
[3] http://www.npr.org...
[4] http://psychcentral.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Stephenknowsbest

Pro

You talk about specific songs and how they are different from each other. Only a few songs stand out. Most straight males are singing about love. Ed Sheeran, Sam Smith, Justin Bieber, etc. are specifically targeting teenagers because that's what they want. They basically are putting the same lyrics to a different toon. Sam Smith's songs "stay with me" and "I'm not the only one" sound the same, but are very popular. Songs by One direction are very similar to each other also, and are also very popular. With singers who are female, Ellie Golding, Katy Perry, Miley Cirus, etc. are also singing about the same thing. Mainly: let's have sex. Katy Perry's song ET is very obviously an innuendo. It blends disturbing lyrics with a generic pop tune. Miley Cirus's "we can't stop" is about teenagers partying, getting drunk, and having sex. This is what the general audience wants, along with generic music that they listen to for a good beat. Ellie Golding is not even trying to hide sex in "love me like you do" which I understand was made for the Fifty shades of grey soundtrack, but is never the less making her tons of money. She doesn't care about a creative song, she just wants money and fame. You argue that only a few people have narcissistic personality disorder, but you don't need that to want to be in the spotlight. My friends and I like to act, but none of us have narcissistic personality disorder as far as I know. Pop singers and bands don't want to write something different because if they do, they don't get as many fans and notability as others who have learned to follow the times and make the same music as everyone else.
Ragnar

Con

Pro's argument is entirely self-refuting, unless everything is the same as everything else (such as a breakup with a girlfriend, and sex with a boyfriend). He can either be considered to offer no evidence, or to have again self-refuted (if Sam Smith's Stay With Me and Katy Perry's "E.T." sound the same, I'm a Smurf). None of my evidence has been challenged (one piece has been mildly misinterpreted, yet not in a way that would actually refute my argument).

"Sex"
Last round pro complained that every song is about a breakup with a girlfriend, and now he's talking about sex with boys non-stop instead; if the songs are the same, which is it?

"They basically are putting the same lyrics to a different toon."
Thank for for conceding the debate a second time, since if the music is a different tune, it is hardly bland.

Also depending on the definition of bland ("showing no emotion, concern, etc." [5]), it may be impossible for love songs to be bland.

As for the accusation of mass plagiarism, anyone is welcome to listen to a few of them to confirm if the lyrics are the same or not [2]; hint, they're vastly different. The comparison is like saying Harry Potter is just The Bible with the chapters in a different order.

"[Ellie Golding] just wants money and fame."
Third concession, as the resolution calls for the songs all being bland and made "just for money."

"You argue that only a few people have narcissistic personality disorder"
I argued no particular number, but an increasing trend. 1% or 100% both refute your case, since the motivation for the songs needs to be "just for money," not sex/fame/drugs or anything else. If even one of them (such as Katy Perry) does it for money and sex as the song he complains of implies, his case is refuted. If said song is not about breaking up with a girlfriend, pro's case is self-refuted. If the song is different than Colbie Caillat's "Try" [1], pro's case is again refuted; cue Katy Perry video and decide for yourself [6].

"My friends and I like to act, but none of us have narcissistic personality disorder as far as I know."
Anecdotal rather than a valid argument [7]. And with a name like "Stephenknowsbest," you're either incredibly humble to your buddy Stephen, or trying to set up an Ad Hominem attack against yourself on grounds of extreme narcissism.

[5] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
[6] YouTube: Katy Perry "E.T."
[7] https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Stephenknowsbest

Pro

I can't believe how far you've taken this. I admire you for ability to debate effectively. My point still stands, and I am not changing. I never said that Stay with Me is the same as E.T. but i can see where you are coming from. I meant at the beginning "uncreative" rather then bland. I did not spend that much time naming this debate. How many pop songs can you think of that are not about 1. sex 2. drugs 3. love 4. butts 5. making yourself feel happy? Probably not many. People write songs about that because that is what people like, so that is what people buy. People don't pay attention to good, creative artists like King Crimson, Thinking Plague, and even Frank Zappa. People are programmed to like pop even when they are first born, because their parents like it. I ask my friends who listen to pop why they like it, and all of them (20 people) said it was because it was catchy. You don't have to work that hard to write a catchy song.

Stephen was my grandfather who passed away when I was 8, so I do not appreciate the critisicm.
Ragnar

Con

In short:
My opponent has dropped both claims in the resolution. He admits pop music is not bland just "uncreative;" further that it is made for things other than money.
Uncreative is already self-refuted, with the various very different sounding songs named; plus pre-refuted in my opening case [2].

Elongated:
"My point still stands, and I am not changing. ... I meant at the beginning 'uncreative' rather then bland."
By your quote you have changed, in fact you've committed the logical fallacy of Moving The Goalpost, sometimes called Special Pleading...
Yourlogicalfallacyis.com<br>by: Jesse Richardson, Andy Smith and Som Meaden.

"People don't pay attention to good, creative artists like King Crimson, Thinking Plague, and even Frank Zappa."
Comparison of creativity against such bands seems ideal, however none of their songs have been shown to be about anything other than "1. sex 2. drugs 3. love 4. butts 5. making yourself feel happy?" In fact, given that people enjoy singing, I doubt many songs can be said to not intrinsically being about making yourself happy (the sex, drugs, love, and butts all fall under that).

"I ask my friends..."
Again "anecdotal rather than a valid argument [7]."

"You don't have to work that hard to write a catchy song."
If true, I suggest you become a pop-music star. If writing multiple is also not hard work, you could become a super-star.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Espera 1 year ago
Espera
...I just had to say this: A singer who has songs that sound similar is a singer who has a singular style. You cannot penalize Billy Corgan for sounding like Billy Corgan or Queen for sounding like Queen. It's be like saying Picasso painted similar pictures and therefore all cubism is bland and created to make money.
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
BTW, best if luck on your future debates. If you've like any help formulating arguments, please let me know.
Posted by Diego_St.Clair 1 year ago
Diego_St.Clair
Pop music is literally all things mainstream and ridiculous... I have absolutely no respect for people who worship Pop music...
Posted by Foolylekooly 1 year ago
Foolylekooly
Damn right it is
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
StephenknowsbestRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: pro made many fallacies that were pointed out by con, so he wins.
Vote Placed by Wylted 1 year ago
Wylted
StephenknowsbestRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was the only one to use sources and not use run on paragraphs
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
StephenknowsbestRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for moving the goalposts. Arguments for numerous concessions