The Instigator
Oneil_Ferrer
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
DoctorDeku
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Porn is not bad

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
DoctorDeku
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/23/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,430 times Debate No: 32806
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

Oneil_Ferrer

Pro

Porn is not bad.
DoctorDeku

Con

Porn is bad.
Debate Round No. 1
Oneil_Ferrer

Pro

Pornography is an art, it expresses humanity's perspective on reproduction. It is a natural phenomenon. Viewing a video won't hurt your body. Viewing a pornographic image does not kill or harm anyone. Men and women view it to have pleasure, and having sexual desires for someone isn't bad. People as teens develop having crushes, develop having sexual desires, and it is only but a natural thing to do. Pornography is a billion-dollar industry which further improves the economy. Watching pornography isn't a disgrace to anyone, desires are only desires. It is not bad to want something.
DoctorDeku

Con

On a side note, I don't know how I'm going to explain my browser history now.

Contention 1: Relationship Effect
Pornography is not an art. It is a means to gratuitously satisfy carnal urges while at the same time create a false world view that pleasure ought to something on demand. It allows men and women alike to fore go the necessary steps in cultivating a relationship with another person, and even destroys existing relationships by setting up a false world view about what sex, love an romance is meant to be.

Dines writes (quoting the sage research institute", that "The most extensive peer-reviewed study in the past decade found that a majority of scenes from 50 top-rented porn movies contained physical and verbal abuse of female performers. Physical aggression " including spanking, open-hand slapping and gagging " occurred in 88 percent of scenes, with expressions of verbal aggression " usually a man calling a woman derogatory names " in 48 percent.[1][2]"
[1] http://nyti.ms...
[2] http://bit.ly...

I could really go on forever about this flawed view of pornography as art and it's devastating impact on relationships, but there are other things which need to e duscussed.

Contention 2: Porn-hunger fuels sex trafficking-
Like any addiction you're going to be satisfied with the mild stuff for very long, and as the hunger for more depraved pornography increases, the willingness of actors and actresses to commit these acts dwindles. This in turn fuels not only the sex trade for pornography, but for sex trafficking (forced prostitution) a well.

Trueman, former head of the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the U.S. Justice Department, writes "It was 2 a.m. We were in the meat market section of New York, which, of course, was closed then. But in a two-block area there was a traffic jam of primarily college kids " and others as well, adults, but a lot of them were college kids " driving into this two-block area to have time with child prostitutes and some young adult prostitutes." and "On each side of you as you would drive down the street there was car after car with young men having sex with these young prostitutes, many of whom are children. There was a van parked there with one young man having sex, with all his college buddies standing outside the van, cheering him on. Now, these aren"t kids who just happened to be in the meat market section of Manhattan at 2 a.m. These are kids who spend their time on Internet pornography, buying magazines with pornography, looking at cable television pornography.[3]"
[3] http://bit.ly...

The fact is, pornography skews our ideas of what a healthy view of sex, and intimacy is supposed to be and fuels deviant sex acts and the desire for sex trafficking.

Gould, a reporter at the atlantic writes, "The leading demographic accounts of contemporary slavery project a global slave population of between 20 million and 30 million people. The highest ratios of slaves worldwide are from South and Southeast Asia, along with China, Russia, and the former satellite states of the Soviet Union. There is a significant slave presence across North Africa and the Middle East, including Lebanon. There is also a major slave trade in Africa. Descent-based slavery persists in Mauritania, where children of slaves are passed on to their slave-holders' children. And the North Korean gulag system, which holds 200,000 people, is essentially a constellation of slave-labor camps. Most of the world's slaves are in sedentary forms of servitude, such as hereditary collateral-debt bondage, but about 20 percent have been unwittingly trafficked by predators through deception and coercion.[4]"
[4] http://bit.ly...

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 2
Oneil_Ferrer

Pro

You said pornography is not an art, well, art is about dealing with the nature of beauty. Nudity is restricted or prohibited in most societies, but some depiction of nudity may serve a recognized social function. A major context for depictions of nudity are the arts, both fine art and the popular arts. Nudity is also allowed when it is seen as supporting a useful purpose, such as s-x education.
Porn is art (https://en.wikipedia.org...)
There are a lot of famous artists whom made nude art.

Pornography is not bad. That's why it's legal.

Argument 1 : Relationship Effect

In a small study from the University of Montreal in 2009 -- also self-reporting -- the male participants claimed that watching porn didn"t change their views of women or impact their relationships. An oft-repeated punchline of the study was that the researchers tried, and failed, to find men who had never viewed porn.
Then there was a 2009 study by Michael Twohig (cited in Sunny Side ) from the University of Utah, which asked students whether or not their porn consumption was problematic. Twohig found that porn itself didn"t affect the students" mental state; it was only a problem when they tried to control their urge to watch it.
http://www.alternet.org...

You said " It allows men and women alike to fore go the necessary steps in cultivating a relationship with another person"
-When you view sex it does not mean you can just have sex to whom you want. No women would open up their legs for a man whom she don't know the name. People only have sex to whom they have utmost/highest degree of trust.
The only necessary steps in cultivating a relationship is to build up a foundation of bond, nobody needs to go overboard and marry the person. Sex is natural, and religion is not for anybody. Nobody skips the steps, believe me. Since the only necessary steps are subjective and can be of a minimum of minutes actually. Most women do not view porn, but if they do, it does not mean that they are hungry for sex and want to have sex with all those handsome beings on the road. The steps to take is the woman's decision and porn does not do that bad.

You said "Porn contained physical and verbal abuse of female performers" . It does influence, but not to the point that someone who watched porn would be a different person afterward. It is merely a scene, and it shows intense intimacy. Watching porn is like watching movies, they do contain physical and verbal abuse. Porn and movies are legal and not banned because the world do revolve on that actions naturally. Porn's impact on relationships is up to the person himself. Don't worry, watching porn does not make you an animal-craving mind. At the end of the day, you are still a rational being naturally wanting art.

Beneficial to a Happier Sex Life

Most internet pornography is actually pretty damn funny and watching it together can encourage conversation and laughter between couples. By encouraging laughing and communication combined with physical arousal, internet pornography can be a sexual enhancer. A Danish study showed viewing hardcore pornography has "had primarily a positive effect f on various aspects of their lives" for men and women. (Hald and Malamuth: Self-Perceived Effects of Pornography Consumption)

Read more: http://www.cracked.com...

Those verbal and physical abuse of spanking and etc are just role plays. Just like in a movie, when someone kills, it does not even mean that you should kill. It's just a way of entertainment as it is.

Argument 2 : Porn-hunger fuels sex trafficking
It is actually the other way around.
Diamond's study took a slightly different tact. Diamond and his team were reviewing previous studies that supported the "fact" that pornography use increases a person's likelihood to commit sex crimes, and that the more pornography is dispersed the higher the sex crime numbers become. Diamond's study concluded that these myths are in fact myths, and that generally speaking there is absolutely no proven link between pornography in a culture or society and the rate of sex crimes. In fact, according to Diamond, it seems that when pornography is readily available sex crimes either remain steady, or decrease.

Isn't that something? It seems that by watching sex on film you may feel better about yourself, your life, and even the opposite sex. Though it wasn't a part of the study, I would venture to say that pornography could also be used as a teaching tool, an aphrodesiac, and even an activity that consenting adults could participate in together. Watching it, or making it, whatever floats your boat as long as everyone has a good time.

http://voices.yahoo.com...

Decreasing the Rate of Sex Crimes

Internet porn creates an outlet for violent fantasies, which can decrease sex crimes. Just think about comparative research. Studies have shown that when violent films are released, the rates violent crimes decrease. Researchers have also learned that the rates of murders committed by males in their mid-teens dropped significantly when explicitly violent video games became popular. Of course, correlation and causation are not the same (but it does allow for a heated discussion that might just have some getting a little hot). Comparison studies, although interesting (to some), are not necessary. Considering that everywhere scientific studies were conducted produced the same results: an increase in the availability and acceptance of pornography has the effect of decreasing sex crimes (Results were published in 2009 by Diamond: Pornography, public acceptance and sex related crime: a review.)

Read more: http://www.cracked.com...

You posted something about slavery. Porn is a billion-dollar industry which employs thousands.
An epidemiological study of 30,000 American men by Michael Leitzman, a cancer researcher at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, has found that men who enjoy an active sex life do not risk prostate cancer in later life.
There has been a suggested link with greater sexual activity and increased incidents of prostate cancer in previous scientific data because of the link with the male hormone testosterone and its effect on promoting cancer cell growth.
Leitzmann's findings were that men who ejaculate between 13 and 20 times a month had a 14% lower risk of prostate cancer that men who ejaculated on average, between 4 and 7 times a month for most of their adult life. Men who ejaculated upwards of 21 times a month had a 33% lower lifetime risk of prostate cancer than the baseline group.

At the end of the day, porn is not bad. Pornography is an art, as many artists/painters/sculptors create it. Porn is legally accepted. It is a natural phenomenon.
DoctorDeku

Con

Art-
This is really a mute point, so I'll be brief here, nudity or lack thereof isn't the factor that makes or breaks something's qualification of being 'art'. I agree that there has been tons of art throughout history with nudity, but those things are tasteful. Two strangers pretending to be into each other while having sex is means to an end.

Further there can be bad art. Just because something is art doesn't mean it's good.

Relationships-
My opponent openly admits that the study he's citing had both a small pool of participants, and that the participants reaction to the study where self-reported. This shows that the evidence my opponent cites here is fallible and unreliable. Aside from that my opponent doesn't actually cite the study itself, but an article referencing the study. This is a link to the actual abstract [ http://www.eurekalert.org... ] in which we see that the sample size was on 20 people.

20 people. That's the equivalent of asking a single college class if pron effects their relationships, not indicative of a real qualitative study.

So right of the bat my opponent's refutation is discredited. But further of all the sources he could have cited to further build is case, he chose Cracked. For those of you who don't get why this is a joke of a source when it comes to academic quality just follow the link my opponent provided. Cracked is a media site which is known for writing entertaining articles on a variety of subjects. Usually when these articles are written the empirical claims warranted within the article with some kind of data, but this article in particular doesn't cite a thing. It's mostly just pictures with baseless claims.

What my opponent doesn't respond to in his cherry-picked, quote-mined rebuttal is the portrayal of women in pornography or the skewed intention of romance cause by pornography. These arguments are utter drops on behalf of my opponent and need to be extended across explicitly.

Finally, before moving on, I'd like to point out that my opponent has waited until the last round to make these arguments. It the job and the burden of the instigator frame the round and provide compelling argument for affirmation in the first speech -- his argument there was one of art and of no-one else getting hurt. Now he's arguing that porn can be funny.

Sex Trafficking-
Here my opponent is outright ignoring the two academic source I provided previously in favor of a Yahoo article as well as another Cracked article. Further the yahoo article was another example of quote mining another source to completely change the intention of the study. The original source for the study was found int he journal of Sexual Medicine [ http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk... ] and didn't conclude that pornography was good for you, it concluded that the mental effect of pornography on teenagers are exaggerated. This means teenagers aren't going to grow hair on their hands, or have their eyes melt out of their skull for looking at porn, but that doesn't mean there are no ill effects.

For my opponent to claim benefits from pornography are misguided at best, academically dishonest at worst.

Further, the study open stated that it was in the minority of research. Basically that means the findings of the research aren't an authority in pornography research. Unsafe sex as a result of the influence of pornography, deviant sexual desires and even acting maliciously on said desires are still a very real threat of pornography consumption.

Next, my opponent makes irrelevant arguments concerning violence and violent video games. First, let's discuss the fact the my opponent fails to cite evidence warranting such a claim; the argument that violent video games decrease violent tendencies is an urban myth. While I'm not going to claim that violent video games increases violence, Bush and Anderson found that violent video games do indeed increase aggressiveness in players [5].
[5] http://pss.sagepub.com...

The logical extension here my opponent is trying to make here with pornography is lost as it is, however the more subtle fallacy in the original construction is the real problem. My opponent commits a correlation causation fallacy in making the argument that pornography does not increase sex crimes. I don't even make an argument to show a link between sex-related crimes and pornography on the general scale, I'm talking specifically about sex-trafficking. This rebuttal is really is self-incriminating.

Next let's talk about the issue of sex trafficking; my opponent's response is simply that porn is a multi-billion dollar industry; that doesn't even begin to refute my original argument. I'm going to outright copt/paste the same thing I wrote before

"The leading demographic accounts of contemporary slavery project a global slave population of between 20 million and 30 million people. The highest ratios of slaves worldwide are from South and Southeast Asia, along with China, Russia, and the former satellite states of the Soviet Union. There is a significant slave presence across North Africa and the Middle East, including Lebanon. There is also a major slave trade in Africa. Descent-based slavery persists in Mauritania, where children of slaves are passed on to their slave-holders' children. And the North Korean gulag system, which holds 200,000 people, is essentially a constellation of slave-labor camps. Most of the world's slaves are in sedentary forms of servitude, such as hereditary collateral-debt bondage, but about 20 percent have been unwittingly trafficked by predators through deception and coercion.[4]"

The fact that there are willing participants doesn"t refute the fact that hundreds of thousands are forced into this "occupation" every day.

So why should you vote Con?
The on-case arguments are pretty solid as it is, but let's really review the reasons that a vote for Con is in order

a. All of the clash is on the Con flow; my opponent's arguments aren't in defensive of his most basic premise, but are in refutation of the Con's original premise. What this means is that my opponent has utterly failed to prove his arguments true, and has at best only succeeded at refuting the clash of the con. Even you buy his refutation that only brings this debate to a balanced level at which point you default Con based on the presumption of belief.

That is, you assume the opposition's stance to be true unless the instigator can prove otherwise.

b. Fallacies galore! To name a few, my opponent practices: cherry-picking, quote mining, appeals to anonymous authority and correlation-causation fallacies. His logic wholly academically dishonest and not worthy of a vote on a strictly academic level.

To vote for my opponent even given the knowledge of these fallacies is to teach him that committing these fallacies is acceptable and good. Do not do that, vote Con and teach him that these deceitful tactics have no place in debate.

c. Source citation: He's using Cracked guys. Cracked! Need I really say more?

d. and the coup de grace, the on-case utterly falls. My opponent's most basic argument is that Porn is art, and it doesn't hurt anyone. I've already shown you that the first premise is false, and even if it isn't art can be bad.

Further I've shown a clear and explicit link between pornography and sex trafficking which my opponent has utterly failed to refute.

For all of these reasons, I respectfully ask for a Con Vote.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DoctorDeku 4 years ago
DoctorDeku
You're citing Cracked as evidence? Really?
Posted by Sui_Generis 4 years ago
Sui_Generis
Someone's a perv.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by MrCarroll 4 years ago
MrCarroll
Oneil_FerrerDoctorDekuTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con provided several well sourced arguments while Pro provided several not so well sourced arguments. Though Pro's round 3 argument was a good attempt, Con concluded convincingly. Both needed to check their spelling.
Vote Placed by Nyx999 4 years ago
Nyx999
Oneil_FerrerDoctorDekuTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I absolutely loved the new ideas and new view Pro had, and I completely agree with him. Lust and love are two different things, and sometimes in realtionships one person is more ready than another person, and the person who is more ready should be allowed to satisfy their urges without being frowned upon. It's natural.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
Oneil_FerrerDoctorDekuTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Sources: I became biased on sources when I saw cracked.com (awesome site, but not for a serious debate) and wiki. Argument: I agree with pro that it is art (or at least sometimes is), claiming otherwise would risk the No True Scotsman fallacy, but con redeemed himself on this with "Further there can be bad art. Just because something is art doesn't mean it's good." Pro himself admitted it's an addiction. Finally con was successfully able to connect bad things to porn. Pro, a better argument question might have been "is porn worth it?" or "The benefits of porn outweigh the negatives." Bad things can be very beneficial, and still from countless valid standpoints remain "bad," low doses of certain poisons to treat heart conditions for example.