Pornography is not degrading to women
Debate Rounds (5)
Please explain your argument.
For the purposes of this debate, when I say "pornography", I will be referring to mainstream American pornography. This is because the concept of porn, as well as the more artistic style of European porn, are distinctly different.
- The majority of porn is filmed and viewed by men.
- Because of this, porn largely reflects male fantasies about sex.
- Many of these fantasies include acts that degrade women, including physical, verbal, and even sexual abuse.
- Depictions of degrading fantasies are, by definition, degrading.
- There is very little foreplay in porn, and very little touching, kissing, caressing, and other intimate moments.
- Women generally need the above mentioned things to be satisfied when having sex
- The exclusion of female pleasuring acts in porn is degrading, as it suggests their pleasure is not as important as the man's.
- Suggesting men are superior to women is degrading.
- Most men watch porn with the understanding that porn is a fantasy and does not reflect how most women want to be treated.
- However, a minority of men, especially younger men and teens without the same life experience, will inevitably see porn as a guide to real sex.
- Using porn, which consists of male fantasies, as a guide to sex can create unrealistic expectations and hurt personal relations.
I've listed three arguments above. I tried to be as clear as possible, turning the floor over to you!
You said: 'There is very little foreplay in porn, and very little touching, kissing, caressing, and other intimate moments.' I completely disagree with this because most of porn videos include kissing, touching and caressing. Before the sexual intercourse,more precisely before the penis enters the vagina, we always see men caressing the women's breasts, fingering and licking the vagina which do not degrade women but rather gives them pleasure and is an act of care. Women also caress testicles, and have oral sex. In most cases , after the men has given the women oral sex.
Suggestions of men being superior to women are never made in pornography.
Pornography is not a guide to real sex, young men will understand that some things are not always as they seem.
You can't call porn sexual abuse, since women in videos accept to have sex, even if it may look hostile. Some of women like to have anal sex, which includes the 'doggy-style' position, which people think is wrong and degrading to women. But since they choose to, it is absolutely fine.
Your statement "Suggestions of men being superior to women are never made in pornography," is false. One cannot say something NEVER happens in pornography, as there are many types, subjects, genres, and influences on porn. A savvy web browser can find almost any kind of porn (see rule 34), which means that any blanket statement made about all of porn is never going to apply. So, let's amend your statement to read "Suggestions of men being superior to women are rarely made in pornography". I disagree with this statement.
-In porn, men are usually filmed in an angle of power over the woman. She is usually lower than he is, either on her knees, on all fours, or on her back. All submissive positions.
-Women in porn are rarely depicted to have any personality, thoughts, feelings, or desires, (other than PENIS!)
-Women are often depicted in humiliating positions, such as being ejaculated on, being choked, being restrained, being slapped or punished.
-All of the above makes women appear to be flat, one dimensional objects instead of rounded individuals, which is degradation.
One of your arguments is that since women choose to be in porn, it is not degrading. I have two objections to that. One, many women are forced into the porn industry by either direct means (controlling boyfriend, human trafficking) or indirect (dire financial circumstances, poor upbringing). However, let's ignore that for a moment and look at women who choose freely to do porn. Some women enjoy doing porn. Some women who don't do porn enjoy many of the things depicted in porn in real life. This is not wrong, people can do what they want with their bodies. However, the issue here is whether it is degrading. A woman being submissive to a man is degrading herself; she is lowering her stature in relation to his. Even if she enjoys it, the message it sends is a different one.
Now we seem to disagree on the foreplay issue. I see the foreplay in porn as sterile, unrealistic, and mechanical. I do not think it reflects what pleases women. I also maintain that while most porn includes kissing, touching and caressing, it certainly doesn't focus on them. They are thrown in as obligations before getting to the pounding, what porn directors think everyone wants to see. There is no laughter, tender dialogue, or emotional connections established in porn. This separates it from real sex, however I am willing to say this is simply a matter of taste.
Back to you!
The purpose of porn is not to show personality or feelings but only the concept or eroticism.
Saying that women are humiliated is wrong. When a men ejaculates on a women it is not necessarily degrading since it is just another layer of excitement to add in the sexual intercourse. Also, being slapped during sex is not the same as being slapped like during a fight, it can excite the women even more.
We must keep in mind that porn is not about love, but human's sexual nature and behaviour.
Women are submissive in real life: Yeah, sometimes. Some women enjoy being submissive, others like being assertive. Most like to switch it up from time to time to experience both. The disproportionate amount of female submissive porn doesn't accurately reflect real life.
The purpose of porn is not to show personality or feelings: EXACTLY! By taking away a woman's personality or feelings, you are degrading her! Porn movies have dialogue, so why waste it on lines like "Did someone order their pizza with...extra sausage?" when they could build interesting characters. Making the porn stars into characters we can empathize with, the sex becomes more than just a girl on a set a penis in the anus, it becomes a much more intimate, erotic experience.
Saying that women are humiliated [in porn] is wrong: Again, in a lot of porn movies, women are frequently shown in pain, having sex with several men, having sex with girls to please a man, being verbally abused by male costars, and more. Is this true of all porn? No, and it is impossible to put an exact figure on what percentage of porn clips of the internet contain women being humiliated. But, *for science* I looked at the front page of a website *which I heard about from an acquaintance and have never visited before* called Pornhub. There were 36 videos featured on the front page. Of those, 17 videos are what I would consider degrading to women. The reasons? A revenge video (illegal), two three somes that the girls were coerced into (there were other three somes that looked consensual, I didn't count them), one with the word "beaten" in the title, forcible deep throating, girls paid to have sex with significantly older men, a doctor abusing his position of power with a patient, and a teacher abusing his position of power with a student, a girl blowing a landlord for rent, and several girls in pain from penises that are too large, too forcefully inserted, or otherwise mishandled.
I would argue that stripping the emotional, personal, and romantic connections from sex makes porn NOT about human's true sexual nature, but male fantasies about it.
Porn movies are not a love story, so dialogues don't need to be sophisticated or show certain specific things.
I understand that some porn videos include the idea of women experiencing pain or being punished or so, and I agree that we could say it represents male fantasies, however, not all videos are like this and even if there are such videos, since the woman accepts to be 'abused' , then 'degrading to women' is a wrong term.
Saying that girls are in pain from too large penises is exaggerated. This can occur in real life since women who are still virgin will have some pain.
We need to understand that everything can be malformed, if we say pornography is degrading to women because of the videos showing men abusing them, we can also say it's degrading to men because it shows that they have no interesting sexual aspect for women to appreciate.
I also would like to ask a question, do you consider people who watch porn, 'bad' or 'evil' ?
Do women experience pain during sex in real life? It shouldn't happen when sex is done properly (excluding fetishes), but yes, it does happen. Does this make it right to film exaggerations of this pain for male pleasure? I don't think so.
Also, you keep bringing up the point that if a woman agrees to do porn, it isn't degrading. Why? Just because she signs the waiver doesn't stop the video from being degrading. It still perpetuates the stereotype that women are objects of sexual pleasure for men, not people equal to men.
I'll close with my answer to your question. Are people who watch porn bad? To add context, I want it made clear that I have watched porn ever since I was a teen and still do to this day. I don't think the concept of watching porn is bad. People who don't have regular sex still need an outlet for their natural urges. Porn should not be banned or censored from the internet. We want to watch porn, maybe we even need it. But we need better porn. We need porn that better represents real human sex, and depicts people as people, and not playthings. We need porn that shows that men and women are equal. They have different bodies, and they have different desires, and they experience sex in different ways, and thats a good thing! Sex is great! We shouldn't be ashamed of it. So, in conclusion, no, people who watch porn are not bad people. But many of the people who make porn are. It is a rough industry with very lax standards that chews young, usually emotionally damaged and/or abused women up and spits them back out. Yes, they agree to get behind the camera. But does that make it any less degrading? Absolutely not.
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.