The Instigator
koppime
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Pheidippies
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Pre-testing in public schools

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
koppime
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,634 times Debate No: 29230
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

koppime

Pro

In various different high schools there are pre-tests. Pre-tests do not count for a grade and cover all of the questions that will be on the actual graded test.
I think that pre-testing is a great way to prepare for a test without missing anything you need to know for the test, and also without studying things that wont be on the test. I am sure we have all had the teacher that has one question in the entire test about the 8 pages of notes you took. I have asked my teachers what tests are actually for, and they all seem to agree that tests are there to make sure you learned what you were supposed to. What if you didn't learn everything? You just fail? That isn't right. Half of the time I forget what I "learned" a week after testing. Isn't the whole point of school to learn? Another good thing about pre-tests is that when you get the pre-test back you can study everything you got wrong, and do well on the test, which is a great help. Thank you for reading! :) I'm new at this, so don't expect too much.
Pheidippies

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for bring this topic up. The statement that Pre-Tests do not count for a grade and it covers all of the questions that be will be on the actual graded test is not all true. Some school districts in USA do take Pre-Test as grade and all the questions on the Pre-test are not actually on the post-test. We are assuming that Pre-Test and Post-Test are the same test. This is actually not the case in some school district. If we are assuming that the Pre-Test and Post-Test are the same then, we enter into your next point about learned what you were supposed to. A student can memorize the Pre-Test answer and sleep during all lesson leading up to the Post-Test. Then, this student can answer the entire question on the Post-Test and it show that he actually learn something. This data is misleading to the student, teacher and school administrators. A better way to see what you actually learn is thru real world projects. Pre-test are for one classroom school houses.
Debate Round No. 1
koppime

Pro

Hello! Thank-you for joining me in this topic. I see you did bring up the fact that not all pre-tests are like the ones that I described, I do agree and am only debating the ones I referred to. I also would like to say that I never did say the pre-tests and actual test were the exact same, I simply stated that the pre-test would cover everything that would be on the graded actual test. You also said a student could memorize the pre-test. Pre-tests are given after learning a lesson and before a test. Anything the student knew on the pre-test was learned from the lesson. If they missed questions they would have to find the answers themselves and memorize them which would be learning/studying.
I assume you agree due to the fact that you said yourself that a student could memorize what was on the pre-test, and answer the question on the actual test which would "show that he actually learn something." (learned).
Also, most schools do not pre-test, but a majority of schools also do not pursue real world projects. In fact most just have worksheets, and then tests, and that's it. Once again, thank you for debating me, cant wait to see your rebuttal!
Pheidippies

Con

Being a Math Teacher myself, you definition is incorrect with Pre-Test. You are describing checking for understanding for THAT lesson which some teachers call ticket out, bell rings, or even pop quiz. The following references define Pre-Test. According to the dictionary [1]Pre-test is A preliminary test administered to determine a student's baseline knowledge or preparedness for an educational experience or course of study. According to references [2] Pret-Test is a test given to determine if students are sufficiently prepared to BEGIN a new course of study. A true Pre-Test is given BEFORE the unit which includes all lessons that will be cover on the post test. If your teacher is giving you Pre-test after he has taught you then that is not pre-test and is QUIZ or ticket out the door. Memorize has nothing to do with learning something. You have to apply what you learn in the classroom to the real world that shows that you actually learn something. I have many students that can memorize songs and speeches but they cannot tell me what the song is about or the speech. It shows that you can recall where you put your car keys or even where you lived at. If you can apply what you learn then, you can tell me how you can get to your house by the streets or how to find your car keys

Sources
[1] http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
[2] http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 2
koppime

Pro

Being a student myself I can say that every time I have taken a pre-test it has infact been what I described. You are only one teacher, so you do things one way. I have had MANY teachers. If you look on dictionary.com there is a 3rd definition which simply says "a test taken for practice." (http://dictionary.reference.com...) As I described. So I do agree it could be either way, but because I am the one who started this debate, and described what version of pre-testing I would like to discuss already I think it would be great if we get back to the actual matter at hand. You stated "Memorize has nothing to do with learning something.", but you also stated in an earlier argument "A student can memorize the Pre-Test answer and sleep during all lesson leading up to the Post-Test. Then, this student can answer the entire question on the Post-Test and it show that he actually learn something.". So, are you saying (as you are a math teacher) that you do or do not need to memorize something to actually learn it. I know if I didn't have things memorized I would fail, due to the fact that I didn't remember anything. At the moment I am making straight A's by memorizing notes and formulas, and I still remember everything from months ago because I memorized it. Obviously it is working for me. Thank you! :D
Pheidippies

Con

In Round 3, you said "At the moment I am making straight A's by memorizing notes and formulas, and I still remember everything from months ago because I memorized it." However, in Round 1 you said "Half of the time I forget what I "learned" a week after testing." These two above statements are contradiction of each other. If you still remember everything from month ago then how do you forget what you learned a week ago? If you truly memorized your notes and formula then you should not forget your notes and formula from 10 years from now.
Debate Round No. 3
koppime

Pro

Thank-you for noticing, but in the first round I was referring to classes I've had without pre-testing, and in the last round I was referring to the classes I have now WITH pre-testing.
Pheidippies

Con

My opponent has not showed my pre-testing is better for public school. He just stands one case study. Therefore, please vote for con.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by rross 4 years ago
rross
koppimePheidippiesTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro put himself up as an example of a typical public schools student and so his experiences could be generalized. I think Con had some good arguments, but they didn't really come together coherently. Pro's argument was simpler and more compelling.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
koppimePheidippiesTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con seemed to want to quibble over the term used to describe the tests Pro was referring to, rather than accept the definition of the term as defined by Pro and debate the concept. Conduct and arguments to Pro.