Predestination makes God look evil.
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Original sin taken in its full context is caused by Adam ( Gen 3 ) in what is called the fall of man. In the fall man now is born sinful and unclean and can do nothing to save himself. Which means in application that our wills are tainted and that everything that we do is not considered good but as filthy rags. The (AAC Article 18) "Since there is left in human nature reason and judgment concerning objects subjected to the senses, choice between these things, and the liberty and power to render civil righteousness, are also left. For Scripture calls this the righteousness of the flesh which the carnal nature, i.e., reason, renders by itself, 71] without the Holy Ghost. Although the power of concupiscence is such that men more frequently obey evil dispositions than sound judgment. And the devil, who is efficacious in the godless, as Paul says, Eph. 2:2, does not cease to incite this feeble nature to various offenses....Therefore, although we concede to free will the liberty and power to perform the outward works of the Law, yet we do not ascribe to free will these spiritual matters, namely, truly to fear God, truly to believe God, truly to be confident and hold that God regards us, hears us, forgives us, etc. These are the true works of the First Table, which the heart cannot render without the Holy Ghost, as Paul says, 1 Cor. 2:14: The natural man, i.e., man using only natural strength, receiveth not the things 74] of the Spirit of God. (That is, a person who is not enlightened by the Spirit of God does not, by his natural reason, receive anything of God's will and divine matters.] And this can be decided if men consider what their hearts believe concerning God's will, whether they are truly confident that they are regarded and heard by God. Even for saints to retain this faith [and, as Peter says (1 Pet. 1:8), to risk and commit himself entirely to God, whom he does not see, to love Christ, and esteem Him highly, whom he does not see] is difficult, so far is it from existing in the godless. But it is conceived, as we have said above, when terrified hearts hear the Gospel and receive consolation [when we are born anew of the Holy Ghost]....75] Therefore such a distribution is of advantage in which civil righteousness is ascribed to the free will and spiritual righteousness to the governing of the Holy Ghost in the regenerate. For thus the outward discipline is retained, because all men ought to know equally, both that God requires this civil righteousness [God will not tolerate indecent, wild, reckless conduct], and that, in a measure, we can afford it. And yet a distinction is shown between human and spiritual righteousness, between philosophical doctrine and the doctrine of the Holy Ghost, and it can be understood for what there is need of the Holy Ghost. 76] Nor has this distribution been invented by us, but Scripture most clearly teaches it. Augustine also treats of it, and recently it has been well treated of by William of Paris, but it has been wickedly suppressed by those who have dreamt that men can obey God's Law without the Holy Ghost, but that the Holy Ghost is given in order that, in addition, it may be considered meritorious." This means that good works are separated into two categories one is civil and the other is spiritual. As heathens we can only do civil good works, and cannot do spiritual works. Once Christ saves us with his atoning blood then in this freedom from the law can we do spiritual good works, but only by him is this accomplished.
Now that I have laid that we cannot at all save ourselves and that humans have no free will except the will to sin I will explain predestination. The definition you gave,"God chose (predestined) those who would achieve salvation and those who would not." Is not the definition I operate off of here is the definition I use.Matthew Block."Why Lutheran Predessptination isn't Calvinist Predestination." First Thoughts. http://www.firstthings.com... "The Scriptures do not teach that God has predestined to be damned those who will be damned. Indeed, as the Formula of Concord warns, "this would be to ascribe to God contradictory wills" (SD 11:35). God tells us in His Word that He wills the salvation of all; He cannot simultaneously have willed that some not be saved. It is clear then that, insofar as Lutherans teach predestination, we do not teach it in the way which the world understands the word. It should not be surprising, therefore, that since Lutherans teach a doctrine different than that which the world calls "predestination," we have not been associated with the term. The reason why is as simple as answering why Lutherans aren"t associated with the term "Calvinist" in public discourse: it"s because the word doesn"t describe who we are." Block makes a point to separate the Lutherans and Calvinists on this issue, because the bible only speaks on how God has predestined us to be with him, and says nothing of how he has predestined us for damnation. Romans 8:29 "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers"
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Vote Placed by thett3 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: The structure of the debate made it difficult for Pro to win due to not being able to rebut Con's case. Cons arguments stand unrefuted, and easily over power Pros.
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