The Instigator
Eli01
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points

Predestination

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 667 times Debate No: 67564
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Eli01

Con

First round is acceptance.
Second Round is our First and ONLY arguments.
Voters will choose the winner by which argument, they agree with, the sources they use etc.
lannan13

Pro

I accept this debate and will argue that Predestination is real and Biblical.

I wish my opponent good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Eli01

Con

Some who preach the doctrine of predestination insist that just because god can see the future has already forseen th evnts that will take place in the future. However, that notion actually undermines god’s wisdom, for it implies that he cannot control his ability to look into the future. To illustrate: If you had a singing voice of unparalleled beauty, would you then have no choice but to sing all the time? The notion is absurd! Likewise, god has the ability to foreknow the future, but he does not use it all the time. To do so might infringe upon our own free will, a precious gift that god will never revoke.Worse yet, the very notion of predestination suggests that god’s wisdom is cold, devoid of heart, feeling, or compassion. But nothing could be further from the truth! The Bible teaches that god is “wise in heart.” [1]Not that he has a literal heart, but the Bible often uses that term in connection with the innermost self, which includes motivations and feelings, such as love. So god’s wisdom, like his other qualities, is governed by love.[2]

[1] Job 9:4
[2] 1 John 4:8

lannan13

Pro

In a debate like this I would feel that it is best that we define what exactly Predestination is. The Oxford Dictionary defines it as the Christian Doctrine of the foreordaining of all that will happen especially when it comes to salvation. (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...) Now Foreordaining is what will happen such as fate, so in order to win the debate all I would have to do is to prove that the Bible has devine fate such as that in Revalations, but I shall do both.
Rom 8:29-30
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
2 Thess 2:13
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
(NIV)
If we observe the above Biblical verse we can see that God has chose at the very beginning of time who would be saved and who would be damned based on his all knowing ability that it really doesn't mater your acts as it is already known as God knows who you are in advance before you are even born and he knows your heart and he also knows the kind of things that you will do and if you really believe in him. It's almost like a Santa Claus on steroids.
Eph 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will
(NKJV)
If we observe the above verse we can see that God has given everyman a purpose, but it is because of that purpose that God has predestinied us. Weather our purpose is to be a burger flipper at McDonald's or the next President of the United States God has a plan and it's based on his plan is weather or not we are going to be saved or not.
John 15:16
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
If we observe the above verse we can see that God chooses who is saved and who isn't. It matters not what you believe or how you believe in God it's the fact that God knows all and he will choose who is saved and who is eternally damned.

- Romans 11:5-7

but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory.

If we observe the above verse we can see that God has predestined us before we even come into existance.

Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
In this verse of Revelations we can see in this foresite of the future that there are a certain amount of people who will and will not be saved. This is fate as God has predicted the second coming of Christ and that there are only a few that would be saved. This is an example of foreordaining as shown in the definition of Predestination.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ESV

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.


Here is another example of the second comng of Christ and the Devine Faith.
So with that I have provided multiple examples of Presdestination in the Bible as well as Devine Foreordaining both of which fit the definition of which I had provided.
With that I thank you and please vote Pro.


Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by philochristos 1 year ago
philochristos
I agree with Beagle. You need to give us a clear statement to serve as the resolution so we know what the debate is about. "Predestination" doesn't tell us much. What ABOUT predestination?
Posted by Asburnu 1 year ago
Asburnu
Which are you hoping will challenge you, a Lutheran or Calvinist?
Posted by Beagle_hugs 1 year ago
Beagle_hugs
This isn't a real debate then. Two people randomly stating what they think on a topic is not a debate--it's only a debate if there's actual response.

More importantly, what kind of predestination are you talking about? The religious kind where it is already determined who will reside in Hades, or scientific/philosophical determinism? Or something else? And, are we arguing whether we believe it is true, whether we believe it is a good way to think about the world, or something else? I would like to know what I would potentially be submitting an argument about, and just posting a single word up doesn't come even remotely close enough.
Posted by Defro 1 year ago
Defro
What is your argument?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Emilrose 1 year ago
Emilrose
Eli01lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro expounds on his argument and uses direct verses from the New Testament in which pre-destination is either explicitly stated or strongly implied. Pro also provides the definition (technically, the job of Con) along with a source.
Vote Placed by Lexus 1 year ago
Lexus
Eli01lannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro put much more work and thought into the debate. Both sides used sources, used good conduct, had good S&G. Good job to both.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Eli01lannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro offered more evidence to support his claim. The Bible seems to support some kind of predestination.