The Instigator
HeIsRisen
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
sherlockmethod
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

President Barack Obama is a Socialist.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/7/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,609 times Debate No: 8906
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (3)

 

HeIsRisen

Pro

Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Pesident Barack Obama is quickly turning America into a Socialistic State. He now has control over banks and car companies and will soon control healthcare and your thermostat. This all in a matter of 7 months. It's enough to make even Hugo Chavez blush. It's been proven time and time again in countries around the world that Socialism fails. End of story. No nation on Earth that has gone from Capitalism to Socialism has turned out better. I hate to see America go down the same path, but sadly it is.

I welcome my opponent's viewpoints.
sherlockmethod

Con

I thank our new member for offering this debate. I do have some questions concerning Pro's position.
1. Please give examples of countries under a pure capitalistic economy that later became a pure socialist economy.
2. Please give the historical timeframe in which the United States had a purely capitalistic economy.

My opponent presented the resolution that President Obama is a socialist, and then argued he wants to turn the country into a socialist nation. From these statements, my opponent is offering evidence from the current state of the economy and President Obama's policies to show he is a socialist; otherwise he is presenting two separate resolutions. Considering the resolution in conjunction with the opening argument, I conclude my opponent wishes to show Obama's policies are in place because of he is a socialist. The evidence my opponent proffers to support this contention is that Obama is a socialist because he controls or is attempting to control the banks, the car companies, healthcare, and interestingly enough, my thermostat. All these stances are rhetorical in nature and I will address each one, showing how some (when defined accurately) fit into the mixed economy of the United States, and others are simple punditry.

Socialism:
My opponent offers an innocuous definition of socialism, but wishes to espouse a more sinister meaning when he uses the term. I will accept the Merriam-Webster definition to some extent, but my opponent is offering evidence from apparent control over private companies, so the second portion of the definition needs to be considered.

President Barack Obama controls the banks.
My opponent must be referring to the bank bail out initiated by former President G.W. Bush. Government bailouts are not new, and President Obama did not initiate this one, he inherited it. I can see no reason to lay the bailout on Obama's policies as the legislation was not passed on his Presidential watch. The US Government has been bailing out companies for quite some time, Republican and Democrat, alike. Here is a decent site on the subject. http://www.propublica.org...
All of the bailouts were attempts to help businesses and industries that were in a financial crisis, and had a significant influence on the US economy. The current bailouts fall in line with this premise as well. I conclude the bailouts are not the result of an attempt by President Obama to turn the US into a socialist nation as he did not initiate the bailouts, and bailouts appear to fit well within the mixed economy of the U.S.

President Barack Obama controls the car companies.
Not really, the US government holds an 8% share in the referenced company. They certainly helped, but this is, again, in line with previous bailouts. I do not see any motive from the US Government to make the US a socialist nation here either.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com...
http://www.cbc.ca...
I ask my opponent to clarify this one so we can discuss it better.

President Obama wants to control healthcare.
http://www.politifact.com...
Politifact has been on top of the health care issue as so many falsehoods are being presented. Sarah Palin tried this tactic during the election. http://www.politifact.com...
A socialist plan would remove private competition, convert the hospitals to government facilities, and the employees would be government employees. The government would own the means of production. I do not see these qualities in President Obama's plan.

My thermostat?
Please address this one more fully. I have an idea where you are getting this one, but I want to be sure. I ask you to expand this point in your second round.

From the few points my opponent presented, he cannot support his position. President Obama is a democrat, no question. He is not a moderate democrat either, but his positions do not fall on the extreme left of the political spectrum and they fall short of socialism. The merits of President Obama's policies are a great debate subject, but the policies are not designed to promote a socialist US. Funny enough, socialists do not appear to be very receptive of President Obama.
http://www.washingtonpost.com...

This introduction is general, and I will get into more detail on socialism and the use of the term socialism from pundits, but I don't need to go that in depth yet.
Debate Round No. 1
HeIsRisen

Pro

HeIsRisen forfeited this round.
sherlockmethod

Con

My opponent no longer has an active account. He has forfeited.
Debate Round No. 2
HeIsRisen

Pro

HeIsRisen forfeited this round.
sherlockmethod

Con

See Above.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Conduct: CON. Pro forfeited.
S&G: CON. I count forfeits as grammatical errors.
Arguments: CON. Pro's case was very weak.
Sources: CON. One source vs. many sources.
Posted by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
That is fine buttons, but I will be in a big one with wj for a while so hold off on the challenge. My only problem with these is that the definition of socialism is so broad and I see too many slippery slope arguments in these debates.
Posted by MrButtons22 7 years ago
MrButtons22
Sherlock, I may want to take you on in this debate.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
Is it even a question?
Posted by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
Sad, my opponent no longer has an active account. This is the second time this has happened in the last week.
Posted by youngpolitic 7 years ago
youngpolitic
He is a socialist! He was the CEO of GM for goodness sakes and he talked constantly about redistributing the wealth.
Posted by MrButtons22 7 years ago
MrButtons22
I don't understand why sherlockmethod is even bringing up capitalism, let alone asking HeIsRisen to "give the historical timeframe in which the United States had a purely capitalistic economy". I do not think the issue here is whether or not we were purely capitalist (since even Adam Smith would not condone that.), but that we are turning socialist.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Agree with Volkov (this never happens).
Posted by Volkov 7 years ago
Volkov
"Pesident Barack Obama is quickly turning America into a Socialistic State..."

That is clearly pasted from your first argument, "HeIsRisen." Clearly, you didn't understand what wjm meant. Possibly, you lack in reading skills.

As well, Obama isn't a socialist. He is left-leaning, but a far cry from socialist. Think left, but not quite that left.
Posted by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
*Waits for tribefan011 to see this.*
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
HeIsRisensherlockmethodTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
HeIsRisensherlockmethodTied
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Vote Placed by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
HeIsRisensherlockmethodTied
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Total points awarded:07