The Instigator
MajSchu1944
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
alevan
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

President Barack Obama's good qualities and actions outweigh the bad thigns he has done.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/30/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,570 times Debate No: 43136
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

MajSchu1944

Pro

Hello! This is my first debate on this site so let's just jump right in!

Barack Obama has done a lot for the country. Everything from refining healthcare so that everyone can get it for cheap to ending two wars that cost the billions of dollars and thousands of American lives. The economy is slowly but surely getting better. The stock market has been seeing record highs for the past two years now and the housing market is beginning to boom once again. The Republican House is not helping the president at all. The president has problems because of the House. The House will not pass any laws or bills proposed by Democrats and will try to repeal the ones that they do.
alevan

Con

I negate the resolution. Resolved "President Barack Obama's good qualities and actions outweigh the bad things he has done." I will start by attacking my opponents opening statement

I'd like to start by saying you can't necessarily blame the lack of good things done by the Obama administration on the house or senate. Remember he does have a democratic senate and the house, while may be doing an awful job, is part of our government and is a fundamental part to it. Our nation as whole is thankful we have it. To blame the lack of success of a man on other men is admitting two things.
1.) that he has not done many things to help people, let alone many things at all.
2.) that he is not a bi-partisan president and in fact is mainly working for a liberal America.
The conservative house is not going to vote for something that does not benefit the people they represent. The fact they are republican shows who he represents thus it is important he can appeal to both parties.

Now on to the affordable care act. I ask my opponent what part of it is affordable?
https://www.ahip.org...

If you'll open that article you'll see that as many as 200,000 private sector jobs won't be created. It is also going to cost the people in Florida as much as 8 billion dollars, that doesn't sound affordable to me.

Also you bring up the stock market reaching record highs and that's great but you're not telling me how Obama helped the stock market rise, you're just saying it happened and that's really a mute point if he didn't have any help with it.

Now that I've taken down all your benefits I will look to the harms posed by the Obama administration and why we will be seeing a neg ballot in today's debate.
Obama has shown to be a huge supporter for the NSA especially early in his first term. He claims to be against the domestic spying now but the damage is done.

1) Domestic Surveillance violates constitutional rights

A) As Federal Judge Taylor said in her ruling on the ACLU vs. the NSA in 2007 "The President of the United States, a creature of the same Constitution which gave us these Amendments, has undisputedly violated the Fourth in failing to procure judicial orders as required by FISA, and accordingly has violated the First Amendment Rights of these Plaintiffs as well."

B) Violates due process; 5th and 14th amendment
Most recently in June a man in Florida was to stand trial for a murder charge. His innocent plead was resting on his phone call records which he believe would have shown he was not at thearea of the murder when it occurred. His service provider no longer had the information so the mans lawyer turned to the NSA. According to the Atlantic Post NSA was unwilling to give evidence which " could save an innocent man from prison." This is an obvious violation of the due process by not supplying evidence to the court.

C) Search warrant -> Does unrestricted metadata violate probable cause?
...metadata, as Senator Leahy of the Senate Judiciary Committee noted, can often be more revealing than listening to the contents of phone calls themselves.

D) NSA employees in numerous cases have violated privacy rules, demonstrating a thorough lack of oversight

In the wake of revelations that the NSA had violated privacy rules on nearly 3,000 occasions in a one-year period, NSA Chief Compliance Officer John DeLong emphasized in a conference call with reporters last week that those errors were unintentional.

"It is alarming to know that the possibility of employees engaging in such behavior turns out to be very real," said Sen. Charles Grassely of numerous reports of NSA employees being capable of spying on their love interests with no restrictions.

2) Lack of meaningful warrants -> NSA corrupt

A) Metadata violates probable cause
...as the ACLU has noted, the failure of the NSA to recognize probable cause as a necessary element in seizure of information. This is known as "pizza delivery man" analogy. The NSA is claiming that anyone with the slightest communications between a suspected terrorist is a possible threat. The NSA then begins a thorough investigation on just a normal citizen who was doing their job and had no viable connection to any plot. Any one terrorist can be connected to over 5,000,000 people who are a "suspected terrorist."

Also he is a huge supporter for a path to citizenship for undocumented but once again we can see that is going to harm Americans in the future.

Harms of Immigration Reform including a path to citizenship

A) Creates a permanent low social class
According to The Council on Foreign relations by providing a path to citizenship the government is "... creating a permanent underclass in the American society that will contribute to the continuous mistreatment of men, women, and especially children of a Hispanic descent."

B) Economic Drag
In a study done by the Heritage Foundation the average undocumented immigrant in the United States has only a 10th grade education. The same study showed that the average citizen in the United States without a high school diploma collects over $46,000 in federal aid while only paying just over $11,000 back to the federal government. Collectively 45% of the undocumented do not have insurance, more than double the rate of naturalized (20%) and almost 4 times that of a US citizen (13%). Therefore, by granting citizenship we are putting a net drain on our National Treasury of nearly 6.4 trillion US dollars.

In numerous positions Mr. Obama has not only violated constitutional rights and harmed our economy in the past but he will continue to do so in the future. Thus I urge a con ballot in today's round. Thank You.
Debate Round No. 1
MajSchu1944

Pro

I see where you are coming from on many of your arguments, but the facts you have are just not correct.

I'll start with the ACA. It is affordable for millions of lower income and young adults. My sister, a 26 year-old female who is healthy and smokes can receive healthcare for as low as $46/month. Now somebody has to pay for that, yes, but it takes a financial burden off of people who don't need it. If a higher income person can help to pay for health insurance for younger people it helps the economy. If person A(young/low income person) gets hurt at work and can't work because they can't get better do to the lack of health care, it hurts the economy because either that person gets laid-off, or that person is out of the work force and is costing the company money for workman's compensation (which is usually not able to provide meaningful cost of extreme injury medical care). If person B(higher income person) can get person A good health care, person A returns to the work place quicker.

Private sector jobs will be lost if the ACA is not followed. A business that provides health care for its employees can receive tax benefits and will save 4% on the healthcare premiums.

http://www.yourrepublicanuncle.com...

Also, businesses that do not put healthcare plans in place for their workers face a $2,000 fine per employee, which would hurt the business. The healthcare act is already in place and goes into effect next month, so the argument to repeal is virtually over, especially if the Democrats remain in control of the Senate and retake the House like they are prejected to next November.

http://www.rawstory.com...

Do not pay attention to the reporter's own personal beliefs but to the fact that, "Right now, the Democrats hold a lead of about 4-5pt per the HuffPollster and Real Clear Politics average." While this may fall, it is still enough to take back the House if these numbers remain.

The Republican House is a huge reason as to why the President can't get many bills passed. The evidence of that is undeniable. The Republicans in the House tried 47 times to get the ACA defunded or repealed and eventually shut down the government in order to do so. That is an example of the extreme acts that the House has taken. Just recently, a bill was passed by the Senate that would forbid the discrimination of gays in the workplace. The President agreed to sign the bills after the Senate passed it. When the bill reached the floor of the House, Speaker John Boehner decided not to even hold a vote. Now it's one thing if the House just doesn't pass the bill, but it is another to not call a vote at all. The President faces these problems many times and the House tries at every moment to stop the bills that President Obama proposes and that the Senate passes and send through to the House.

When you say that the House is a fundamental part of the government, I think you misunderstood my argument. I'm not saying that we should get rid of the House at all. I completely agree. All I am saying is that the House is trying to stop the President from getting things done, which is a simple fact, not a partisan view.

As to your claim that the President is not bi-partisan, that is also false.

http://abcnews.go.com...

The above article is about the President signing the bi-partisan defense bill and budget deal. Claims made that the president is not bi-partisan because he wouldn't negotiate during the government shutdown are also false. There is a difference between being bi-partisan and not trying to get rid of something you believe in to let another side win. He said that he would negotiate with the House on the ACA, but not if the House was going to do a shutdown for it.

As for your claims about the NSA. Yes, the NSA has done unconstitutional things, but Obama repeatedly said that he was in the dark during all of it and had no idea that the NSA was spying on US citizens.

With the due process violation: The NSA would have given a reason for the inability to hand over the evidence. You did not state the rest of the story, the NSA's comments, or where you received this information, so it is hard for me to argue against it. The path to citizenship is a good thing. While on the path, these immigrants are paying taxes, some are working, and they are doing all of the things that a normal citizen would do with the exception of certain rights, like the right to vote. They are still contributing to the economy.

Giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship would not hurt the economy, but help it immensely. Over the next 10 years, 11 million illegal immigrants become citizens, which would grow the economy by $832 billion. A path to citizenship is a good thing.

Many of the current laws that allow for the mistreatment of Hispanic people are being stuck down and new laws are being put into place.

The actions of organizations like the NSA are not to be placed on the President when he was not directly informed of them. The President himself has not performed any unconstitutional acts and, while hitting a few rough areas here and there, has grown the economy and provided a job growth for a consecutive 45 months. Therefore, the Presidency of Barack Obama has been successful and has not hurt the country. Thank you.
alevan

Con

alevan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MajSchu1944

Pro

MajSchu1944 forfeited this round.
alevan

Con

Everyone vote pro as I will be unable to respond to the debate from this point on
Debate Round No. 3
MajSchu1944

Pro

MajSchu1944 forfeited this round.
alevan

Con

I've already conceded vote Pro
Debate Round No. 4
MajSchu1944

Pro

MajSchu1944 forfeited this round.
alevan

Con

alevan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by alevan 3 years ago
alevan
I apologize I just don't have the time to do this debate anymore. EVERYONE VOTE PRO.
Posted by MarkDenbow 3 years ago
MarkDenbow
I do not wish to debate this subject but only interject a brief comment if I may.

"Barack Obama has done a lot for the country. Everything from refining healthcare so that everyone can get it for cheap" I think you'd better research this a little more. The Affordable Health Care Act and "cheap" are mutually exclusive terms. Cheap for some maybe, but somebody has to pay for it.

"The economy is slowly but surely getting better. The stock market has been seeing record highs for the past two years now and the housing market is beginning to boom once again." These are all due to the free market system we enjoy in this country and has absolutely nothing to do with governmental "accomplishments."

"The Republican House is not helping the president at all. The president has problems because of the House. The House will not pass any laws or bills proposed by Democrats and will try to repeal the ones that they do." Didn't it ever occur to anyone that the Republicans just don't agree with the Democrats' ideas? That's why we have the system we have, so that no one ruling party can take over. Maybe, just maybe the Republicans don't feel the Democrats' ideas are in the best interest of the country. Instead of just labeling them obstructionists, or racists, or whatever, maybe people should find out the real reason why they're inhibiting some things from passing.

Just a thought.
Posted by alevan 3 years ago
alevan
I want to know. Can we rephrase the resolution to "The benefits of Barack Obamas presidency outweigh the harms" because one it will sound better and two I will accept it. Even though I'm an Obama supporter I like to debate both sides on every issue
No votes have been placed for this debate.