The Instigator
Viper-King
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

President George W. Bush Was Not A Good President!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,690 times Debate No: 19155
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

Viper-King

Pro

Round 1: Introduction
Round 2,3,4: Debate
Round 5: Wrap it up!
You must debate Lincoln-Douglas style.

AC
NR/1NC
1AR
2NR
2AR
A=Affirmative N=Negative R=Rebuttal
Thank you!

I think that George W. Bush was a bad president and would like to challenge you to a debate!
16kadams

Con

I dont understand your abations so please explain a lincolon style. I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Viper-King

Pro

*Lincoln-Douglas Style Means You Have To Make A Case Every Round While Having A Rebuttal! It Also Has 3 Contentions With A Value And Definitions And Maybe Criteria.
"Bad leadership during the past years has cast on our Party the shadow of great and grave burdens."
Janos Kadar. It is because I agree with Janos Kandar that I agree with the resolution "George W. Bush was not a good president!" To show you what I mean, I have offered these definitions:
Good: possessing the necessary skill or talent to do something
President: the head of state, or head of state and chief political executive, of a republic

My value today is leadership. My definition of leadership is the position or function of a leader. The thing which George W. Bush lacked was true leadership and though he did the best of his ability, he wasn't a good president. Leadership is not everyone's gift and the position of being president of the USA is a very powerful and stressful place to be in.
Contention 1: George W. Bush helped make the economy worse.
George W. Bush was not a good president because he got us another $5.7 trillion in debt. We were $5.6 trillion in debt from our previous presidents and George W. Bush advanced our debt. A $236 billion cash on hand became a $412 billion deficit in four years under George W. Bush and the Republican Congress. George Bush and his Republican friends used the existing cash on hand of $236 billion included in the $5.7 trillion projected over the next 8 years into big oil companies and tax cuts for the rich and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. While costs of the invasions of Afghanistan piled up, George Bush didn't increase the tax nor make a budget but allowed the next generation to handle our debt. As a result, the government borrowed money to pay for the biggest costs and the Republicans predicted a $61 billion surplus even though they created a budget that added $251 billion to the deficit. During Bush's presidency, jobs only grew 2% and the GDP only grew 2.1%. The worst decade for the stock market which was down 26% from 2000 was in George W. Bush's term. 7 million jobs were lost, 14.5 million people were left unemployed, and 6 million out-of-work adults stopped looking for work because it was too depressing. Manufacturers fell to its lowest level in 26 years. The jobless rate reached a 26 year high. Net job creation has been 0% since December 1999. George W. Bush made our economy worse into what it is today!
Contention 2: George W. Bush made us the policemen of the world.
We fought in so many countries for democracy that we lost lots of money such as Syria and North Korea. Invading the whole countries of Afghanistan & Iraq is idiotic! I will expand if necessary because lack of time.
Contention 3: A horrible president was not needed in a bad economic time!
George W. Bush was ranked the 39th of the 43 presidents from 238 presidential scholars!
George W. Bush as polled horribly and talk of impeachment were made. Many people regretted voting for him! I will expand if necessary because lack of time.
In conclusion, George W. Bush was not a good president!
16kadams

Con

Since your style says no rebuttals yet I will follow these rules.

contention one. HE WAS A GOOD LEADER!. He was able to rally a whole nation behind him during 9/11. His approval rating was above 90%, a record. So I think if you can rally most of america behind you, and many of them don't agree with you, then you are a good leader. He responded very well to the ghastly situation. The video proves my point, he is a good leader. The debt. It was partially because of the war. Afghanistan was a war, against terrorism. So that point is invalid because if your against terrorists, you ought to be pro the afghan war. Iraq is a problem now, but was a good idea then. The CIA told him that Iraq had nuclear weapons, and being a know terrorist supporter Bush believed that he needed to react. The CIA was wrong, but at least he waited for just cause.

My second reason: Afghanistan has gone from a nation where the Taliban harbored al Qaeda and stoned women in the streets to a young democracy that is fighting terror and encouraging girls to go to school. Iraq has gone from a brutal dictatorship and a sworn enemy of America to an Arab democracy at the heart of the Middle East and a friend of the United States. There is legitimate debate about many of these decisions. But there can be little debate about the results. ...

My last reason: Helped the economy. There are many reasons for the debt and the economy, but Bush didn't fully make either of the 2. He saved us in the 2001 resection with those tax cuts. THE ECONOMY INCLINED AFTER! It did decline at the end of his term, but under a democratic congress. And the debt was mostly made in those 2 years because of the bailouts made by liberals. Also the housing market was the main problem that made the recession correct? Well it was because of many things, the banks, and the regulations. These regulations where made under clinton, leading to the ressecion. Also the debt did have a surplus at the end of clintons term. Why? Because taxes rose faster then spending, leading to the 2001 temporary downturn. So most of the blame gets sent to congress and A little to Clinton. CLinton left us on the brink of recession. If you want more details click this link: http://www.issues2000.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Viper-King

Pro

*Since my opponent did not do a rebuttal, please clarify that you're supposed to do a rebuttal.
Contention 1: "HE WAS A GOOD LEADER!"
He had 80%-90% for 4 months after 9/11 but as I said in the first sentence of Contention 3, he was ranked 39th out of 43 presidents by 238 presidential scholars! You have failed to see my first contention which I put and please read the contention instead of copying and pasting your whole case in 20 minutes. "We were $5.6 trillion in debt from our previous presidents and George W. Bush advanced our debt. A $236 billion cash on hand became a $412 billion deficit in four years under George W. Bush and the Republican Congress. George Bush and his Republican friends used the existing cash on hand of $236 billion included in the $5.7 trillion projected over the next 8 years into big oil companies and tax cuts for the rich and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. While costs of the invasions of Afghanistan piled up, George Bush didn't increase the tax nor make a budget but allowed the next generation to handle our debt. As a result, the government borrowed money to pay for the biggest costs and the Republicans predicted a $61 billion surplus even though they created a budget that added $251 billion to the deficit. During Bush's presidency, jobs only grew 2% and the GDP only grew 2.1%. The worst decade for the stock market which was down 26% from 2000 was in George W. Bush's term. 7 million jobs were lost, 14.5 million people were left unemployed, and 6 million out-of-work adults stopped looking for work because it was too depressing. Manufacturers fell to its lowest level in 26 years. The jobless rate reached a 26 year high. Net job creation has been 0% since December 1999. George W. Bush made our economy worse into what it is today!" Did he seem to handle being president well after 9/11? He seemed to be able to rally the people right after 9/11 but what really counts is the long term run. Look at the numbers again. 78% of all debate.org members are against George W. Bush! As I said before, Afghanistan & Iraq did not need to be invaded to fight the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. We have to help ourselves first rather than helping others. Democracy & freedom is great but when your economy becomes 5.7 trillion dollars in debt in 8 years while adding another 5.6 trillion to the debt because of previous presidents, it makes 11.3 trillion dollars in debt while other countries are celebrating freedom and democracy. We need to help ourselves FIRST and then help others because if we don't, we may be one of the worst economically secure country and might even los our freedom! And the debt was made 5.7 trillion dollars more under a Republican Congress from 2000-2006 so you can't blame the Democratic Congress for the "Bush tax cuts" which cost the economy the most. Clinton may have started the recession but George made the recession much worse. Bush got us - 5.7 trillion. Clinton got us - 5.6 trillion! I urge the voters to vote PRO for the resolutution: George W. Bush was a bad president!
16kadams

Con

Number one, it isnt copied and pasted. So that accusation is false.

Number 2, he was ranked lower on the scale, but I would like to see any one predident maintain that record for 3 months. I almost doubt they could. He was a good leader. So those scholars ranked him 39th what? In leader ship, or somethign else. You need to specify before I deny this.

You are blaming bush on everything with no reasoning whatsoever. You need to take into consideration the wars. This is the hardest point for me do defend. He did invade afghanistan for a reason, this cannot be denyed. It was a neccasarry war, maybe not now in some peoples minds but it was neccassary at the time. Iraq was abother war. He listend to the CIA, if you where president and you thought a crazy leader like saddam had a atomig bomb, then you would react similar to bush, I garrentee it. So yjose wars created the deficit, not bush. He did this for a just cause.

Well pbviosly he didnt raise the taxes. Extra taxes can't pay for all of that number one, and number 2 raising taxes hurt the economy. His tax cuts saved the first one, and if he rose them we would have gad a double dip ressecion, like we are in danger of today.

" During Bush's presidency, jobs only grew 2% and the GDP only grew 2.1%"

You blame it all on Bush, as I said you can share the blame. 1. clinton for uselless taxes and regulations that made the first ressecion, and leadong to speeding up the process for the second, 2. The banks, they did most of it, 3. Barney frank, he leader of the housing commite and helped speed up the bubble, and 4. Bush for not recognising the problem. It can't all be Bush, partially but it is rarely one person in our american society.

"Manufacturers fell to its lowest level in 26 years."

Scource? And also You can still not blame it on him only. It can be shared, it is actually a fair asumption that Clinton made the ressecion. Not the second one as much, but the first one happened right when bush took office and just settled in. So first term blame for this=Clinton. Second term blame= democratic congress, and Bush for signing the bills. So since blame can be shaed you view of Only he did it is quite a fallacy.

"78% of all debate.org members are against George W. Bush! "

That acctually means nothing because approval means little. To some obama is great and his approval ranges from 30% to 39%. Here is a site showing that Bush is not the worst president: http://www.infoplease.com... shows the approval ratings of each. He had the highest approval on there, and not the lowest. Nixon and truman Are both worse than him, and Jimmy carter as too. He is equal to his dad in the lowest approval rating tied at 29%. So even if approval ratings in your mind matter, then he is still not the worst predsdent ever, and was THE BEST at one point.

Also you probably agree with me, abraham lincolon was a good president. His approval ratings where never good because he won with 40% of the vote, and the south attacked him, and almost lost his second election. So do approval ratings really matter?

You also didnt push forward the case on policing the world, probably because you saw policing afganistan was needed, and we have basically saved them. And also you fail to argue against my economy argument with any reason.

Also going back to the economy, If you look at my scources it proves that clinton was not a good president and he is partially to blame for this mess.

The other elements lead to what is now some sort of 'mortgatge crisis'. Again, liberal polices were to blame, and we can not link these outcomes to conservatism. (1)

Recessions are natural and beneficial if not caused by the government or attacked in a Keynesian manner. This recession would destroy a few failing companies and open the market to new companies and small businesses that will perhaps be more successful. In this manner, by opening up the markets for expansion, the markets grow and improv (1)

Yes they are benificial in the long run becasue we learn from our mistakes through history...sometimes.

So if you read the debate below they link everything to liberal policies, which may or may not be true.

But I do dissagree with the site below, he is economically moderate, and I think his only mistake when it came to the economy was signing liberal bills, and so far you have failed prove me otherwise.

Scources:

Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
lol I like the shift key comment. That was amusing even though it was an inadvertent insult.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
um... contra tell me how the bush tax cuts where bad, rich people make jobs because they own business and will hire more people so they get more money.
Posted by DavInChains 5 years ago
DavInChains
Interesting.... Can't wait to see how Con tries to justify Bush's presidency :D

Maybe I 'misunderestimated' Bush?
Posted by Viper-King 5 years ago
Viper-King
ok, so ac is making a case, nc/n1 is making a case and hurting ar's case, ar1 is defending his case while attacking nr's case, nr2 protects his case and attacks ac's case, ar2 protects his case and attacks nr2's case
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
so you just say your case is bad and an AR is defending it
Posted by Viper-King 5 years ago
Viper-King
negative rebuttal is a comeback to the opponent's case and making your own case!
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I understand, but what is a negative rebuttal?
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
let me think about it for a while
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
Viper-King16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I'll give the edge to Con, because Pro had the burden of proof. This debate needed references; Pro didn't try to provide them and Con had dead links. Pro had to prove his case, and it was just one unsupported opinion against another. The debate flowed well in terms of contentions and rebuttals. Both sides had S&G problems. Pro should leave an extra line after paragraphs. Con should find the shift key.
Vote Placed by E.BurnumIII 5 years ago
E.BurnumIII
Viper-King16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro pointed out the massive debt accumulated during Bush's presidency. Pro had no sources to back up information
Vote Placed by Contra 5 years ago
Contra
Viper-King16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't exploit any of Con's points that were incorrect such as the Bush Tax cuts
Vote Placed by medic0506 5 years ago
medic0506
Viper-King16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: BOP on Pro but not met. No substantive argument that wasn't refuted.