The Instigator
NKJVPrewrather
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Amphia
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

President Trump on religious liberty.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/12/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 108 times Debate No: 107909
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

NKJVPrewrather

Pro

I am with President Trump on Biblical morality and religious freedom. I am a moderate social democrat, but religious liberty for all. I personally believe that secular attacks on the right of Christians to live their faith is a violation of the First Amendment.
Amphia

Con

"I am with President Trump on Biblical morality and religious freedom. I am a moderate social democrat, but religious liberty for all. I personally believe that secular attacks on the right of Christians to live their faith is a violation of the First Amendment."

I don't want to argue against religious freedom because I agree with that. Can I argue instead that Christians' rights are not being violated?
Debate Round No. 1
NKJVPrewrather

Pro

Go to ACLJ.org and read how Jewish and Christians are being perscuted worldwide. Christian rights in America are under attack by secular leftists from a Christian baker being run out of business for not wanting to participate in a gay wedding in America to the fact that Christians are not allowed to pray opr teach creation in schools, but secular leftists can teach evolution in the classroom. Present both views to students and let them decide. That way we have liberty and choice. Another thing that bothers me is that teacher has a gag rule from mentioning Jesus in the classroom even in passing, and I view this as both a right to believe and a right to speak for anyone who wants to mention Jesus. Also, in Muslim countries, Christians are tortured, and torture is always wrong regardless of who the victim is in my not so humble opinion. It is refreshing to have any President who tries to stand for Jesus and the Bible.
Amphia

Con

Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant that I wanted to argue their rights are not being violated in America. But that's okay, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. So it should be fine.

"Christian rights in America are under attack by secular leftists from a Christian baker being run out of business for not wanting to participate in a gay wedding in America..."

Being honest, I do not think that this attacking Christian rights. In America, we have laws against discrimination in businesses. Whether for sexuality, race, gender, etc. A baker discriminating against a gay couple is illegal. I do not think that the baker should feel so upset about baking a cake for a gay couple. Before you get angry, think about it this way. If a Republican baker bakes a cake for a Democrat customer, does it mean they subscribe to that party? No, it doesn't. The baker is just doing business. Same for a gay couple. It would be different if he was a priest in a church because that means he is okay with gay marriage (though I would like to mention that no where in the Bible does it say we should hate gay people or dislike them...). However, a priest's business is religion so it's different. A baker's business is baking and so under American law that's discrimination which I agree with.

"to the fact that Christians are not allowed to pray or teach creation in schools, but secular leftists can teach evolution in the classroom. Present both views to students and let them decide. That way we have liberty and choice."

The reason for this is the clear difference between the two. Creationism is a belief based on religion which varies among people while evolution is a widely accepted scientific idea. People who believe in creationism only do so because of faith (nothing wrong with this, it's just the truth), not because of scientific facts. Not everyone has this faith for one. And two, Christianity is not the only religion in America. Imagine a Hindu kid sitting in class while their teacher explains how God created the world in 7 days. They don't believe that, what about their religion? Why don't they get representation? If you don't believe in evolution, that is okay. You just have to learn it because it is part of curriculum. No one is trying to make you believe it. Also, Christians are allowed to pray in schools. Muslims are allowed to pray in schools. The problem comes when a teacher is trying to teach their religion to children or trying to make everyone in the class pray. If you want to be taught creationism, go to a Christian private or charter school. In America we believe in separation of church and state, so public schools (funded by the government) are not supposed to swing towards any religion.

"Another thing that bothers me is that teacher has a gag rule from mentioning Jesus in the classroom even in passing, and I view this as both a right to believe and a right to speak for anyone who wants to mention Jesus."

I did not know about this gag rule but I think it depends on where you live. In my city, majority is Christian so a teacher mentioning Jesus isn't seen as awful. Once, a girl was making a speech and kept talking about Jesus which is technically not allowed but no one went after her. I don't think mentioning Jesus should be seen as bad. But then you must be fair and not care if a Muslim mentions Mohammed or an atheist says they don't believe in God. As long as it is not a teacher trying to teach their beliefs to the class.

"Also, in Muslim countries, Christians are tortured, and torture is always wrong regardless of who the victim is in my not so humble opinion. It is refreshing to have any President who tries to stand for Jesus and the Bible."

I agree that people should not be tortured regardless of religion, I just hope you know it extremists committing these acts. Whether it be extremist terrorist groups or extremist leaders. Not normal Muslims living their lives. In the Koran, Muslims are told to respect Christians and let them be. Also, I do not agree with the fact that Trump is trying to stand for the Bible but could you name some examples?
Debate Round No. 2
NKJVPrewrather

Pro

Fair enough. I hold a different view. Kim Davis while not perfect shoulkd not have been arrested for not participating in gay marriage. Christian teachers should not be censured for a mentioning Jesus in passing, or not wanting to teach evolution. This is religious liberty, that I don't have the right to force my religion on you, nor does an atheist have the right to take my rights or force me to be an atheist. I am libertarian on religion.
Amphia

Con

I think that if a teacher doesn't feel comfortable teaching about evolution, then s/he should not teach science class. That's the US curriculum so if it make him/her uncomfortable then maybe try a different subject? When you become a teacher you learn how to teach all kinds of subjects so maybe they should try something else.

Also, atheists are not trying to take away your rights nor are they trying to force you to become atheists. To be honest, I feel like Christians are more likely to do that sort of thing than an atheist. I mean whether you think Kim Davis should have been arrested or not, she was taking away a gay couple's right to not be discriminated against. I mean, come on. Christians have been known to empirically take away people's rights and still lobby to do it now. Have you ever heard stories of an Atheist Inquisition? Or atheists lobbying the government to make abortion difficult for women? Not to say atheists are perfect but if we are honest with ourselves, who is most likely to stampede on rights?
Debate Round No. 3
NKJVPrewrather

Pro

That is really stupid and violates the nonaggression princple. I am socially libertarian and feel many view points for students to freely choose. If my religion cannot be taught in school, neither can atheism. Why should the government give more protections to atheists?
Amphia

Con

That is really stupid and violates the nonaggression princple. I am socially libertarian and feel many view points for students to freely choose. If my religion cannot be taught in school, neither can atheism. Why should the government give more protections to atheists?

Alright... I don't agree with that since the Christians creationist view isn't being attacked...but I get your view.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by David_Debates 1 week ago
David_Debates
Hey Amphia, did you want to debate about the court case that is pending right now? I see you addressed it in your argument.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 week ago
John_C_1812
Executive Officer Trump faces the mistake of Christianity in general. A secular attack on Christians to live their faith is not a real violation of the First Amendment. It is a civil claim made by Christians against the United States, the first Amendment address the Freedom of religion with a demonstration linked to some kind of lack to self-value. Christianity is governed very strongly by its self-value it is in fact measured by morality a self-value

All religious liberty is made through the declaration of Independence, so the first Amendment has no legal say other than what it makes on the grounds set in United States Constitution, by its change. Liberty is not a Right it is a privilege which means it does in fact have a self-value. For the recorded Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness all are self-values. Therefore President Trump is relived of Presidential command to represent all men in a Unite state, before the United States Constitution.

Again this relief and dismissal of Presidency has nothing to do with his official roll as Executive officer.
To sum this up quickly Christianity took care of Christianity and simply lost focus on any Constitutional obligations to its liberty and partnership held by likelihoods. The lack of honor to uphold the constitutional grounds of liberty is what has brought consequence to bear.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 week ago
John_C_1812
I am curious you say President Trump, though in order for an Executive Officer to become President he must represent an ability all men before United States Constitution. Not that this limits the authority of vote to Executive office, I do not see his ability of President happening at all, yet. If I were to presenting you with a written grievance why he does not secure this vote from me as male, for President and only the limitation of Exceptive Officer. He broke the law when running for Executive Office against a woman who had no constitutional right to be a President. His common defense has however been recognized at least by me to why the law which was broke went tested by him.

To try to avoid the BS a woman can only be, this is by her own constitutional limitation a Prasedera. Meaning it is and always was beyond my control at all, had I been represented and not cut out by any political deal. As this is what was to be required to engage the discrimination claim made organized woman who have demonstrated a lack of ability to be Prasedera, and are simply born the wrong sex or gender to be President. The translation is a woman who sits for the future of all woman before the United States Constitution. This process is made by delivery of a United State that is formed for the purpose of uniting all woman. The bear minimal requirement.
Posted by TheMorningsStar 1 week ago
TheMorningsStar
" I am a moderate social democrat"

Weren't you a moderate republican less than a month ago?
Why the sudden change?
No votes have been placed for this debate.