The Instigator
lannan13
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Rayze
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Presidential Debate: Lannan13 vs. TBA

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,105 times Debate No: 29042
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

lannan13

Pro

Welcome to the presidential debate. I'm Lannan13 and I represent the republican party.
Rules
preferably my opponent is from a different party.
Cussing isn't poor conduct it's actually encorage
no ff.
Other members on this site can bring up questions in the comments and they must be answered unless it is past round 4.
In this debate you will bring up your running mate in round 2.
The main issues in this debate will be but are not limited to abortion, gay marriage, deficet, drones, foreign policy, voting rights, welfare, social security, electorial system, and more.
In first round you must state your Moro.
First round you state your party and were you're from. Other then that it's acceptance. No new arguements made after round 4.
So help I'm Lannan13 and I'm from Topeka, Kansas and I'm here to work for you.
Rayze

Con

I accept this debate, and since Lannan is representing the Republicans I'll go with......... The Democratic Party.

Hey, I'm
Rayze, from Boston, Massachusetts, and I'm here to work with you.
Debate Round No. 1
lannan13

Pro

(Note Sorry for the spelling errors in round 1 I was on my Kendal and it must have changed some words. These words are Moro= motto, help= hi)
First I will state my platform then I'll name my running mate.


1. Abortion
As a traditional Republican I'm pro-life. I'm even against birth control, because I believe that a child is a child when it is conceived. But if elected president I will not ban abortion, the only laws that I'll push forward is that the child must have permission from their parents in order to have the abortion. Also if the father leaves her we'll have him join the military for getting the women pregent.

2. Gay Marriage
I'm against gay marriage, but this is one position that I won't touch if I'm elected. I personal believe it is morally wrong, but this is a topic to be left up to each individual state via the 10th Amendment of the United States Constitution. http://www.usconstitution.net...

3. Voting Rights
this is an area that action must be taken. Many states still have hundreds of dead people registered to vote and the death of that person should automatically take them off the registered list. http://marylandreporter.com... However, if the person turns out to still be alive then they'll have to register again, that's all.

4. Foreign Policy
Iran and Israel- We need to make sure Iran doesn't get the nuclear weapon, however, the status quo still isn't working. To more correctly answer the question if I get called by the Israeli Minister and they say their jets are going to bomb Iran. I would say, "We're right behind you." We must support Israel since it is our greatest ally. Iran must be stopped, but only if they continue to go against the United States. As a matter of fact Iran has been at war with the U.S. since 1977 through the declaration in their constitution, but Congress hasn't recognized it so it isn't a full war... yet.
Syria- We must help the rebels, but we can't do this until they have identified themselves. Until then we must continue cleaning up around the area such as Jordan, and Turkey.
North Korea- North Korea is a nation lost in the dark, but my question is why the U.S. take action against them hasn"t since they are attempting to get nuclear weapons. We must at the minimum put a global embargo on North Korea.

5. Welfare & Social Security
Welfare- First off it might come as a surprise to you, but I'm not going to abolish or even cut welfare. I'm going to have required that the people in receiving welfare must participate in community service or fill out at least 10 applications a month.
Social Security- I believe social security should be abolished. For the reason that people should be able to control their own retirement and not leave it in the hands of Wall St. sharks and the greedy government.

6. Drones

I believe that the use of drones is great and that the U.S. should continue to use such technology. It keeps our brave soldiers out of harm"s way instead of killing them in a hostile environment.

7. Deficit
Today the government is in debt over $16 trillion dollars and it"s growing by the second. We must do something now or our children will be stuck in a world of hurt because we"re here spending like crazy. Now what I purpose the government does is that we go back to the ideals of Alexander Hamilton. We pay back some of our debt and get it back to the pre-Bush era, but don"t pay it all back. We could easily start by stop importing large amounts of oil from the Middle East and instead get most of our oil from the motherland, right here at home. We can use the money saved from oil to help pay back debt and more. The U.S. should implement Platinum coins but don"t distribute them to the public, but distribute them to China and other nations to pay off our debt in order to avoid inflation.

8. Electoral System
I believe that the electoral collages should tally votes, but the electoral votes shouldn’t be counted to win the election, but instead the popular vote should win the election.

9. Gun Control
I am against gun control of any forums. I’m grief stricken by the Sandy Hook shooting and the two cops that got killed in my home town, (http://www.cnn.com...) but guns don’t kill people, people kill people. If guns killed people then how on Earth could people walk out of a gun show unscaved?

My running mate is ConservativePolitico http://debate.org...
If my opponent has any questions please ask, or you can bring up any new issues that you believe that I missed.
Rayze

Con

Rayze forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
lannan13

Pro

I'm sorry I will allow for my opponent to respond. I guess I will change my moto since ours are to close a like. "Without liberation there is no civilization." Vote lannan13 for president.
Rayze

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent for giving me another chance.

1. Abortion
Let's take abortion and throw it away from politics. It doesn't belong in government alright. We shouldn't dictate what a women can and can't do nor should we say that churches must have birth control pills for their employees. How do we throw this dead issue from politics? That's easy, we sell birth control pills like condoms.

2. Gay Marriage
Look I couldn't care less about gay marriage, but gay marriage is protected in the constitution in the 14th amendment. The 14th amendment states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.". So with the exception of zoophilia, necrophilia, and those bizarre one's the constitution allows it.

3. Voting rights
Why do we still have hundreds of dead people registered to vote?
What are the states doing?! Look its the states' job to make sure that voting fraud doesn't occur so it's not the president's job but congress's to fix this mess.

4.Foreign Policy
Iran and Israel... So if I get a call by the Israeli prime minister saying that their jets are bombing Iranian nuclear facilities I'd be like the hell?! Look the Iranian's are dying for an excuse to paint Israel and the US as legit evil, and we're denying them that painting right now with the status quo. Look, we got the Stuxnet and several cpu viruses to delay them until a more permanent solution is ready, and 'sides we're waiting for a legitimate excuse to rip through Iranian soil. Now the Syrian Rebels are a group the US ought to help, but until they get rid of al qaida elements we got our hands tied when it comes to assistance for them.
North Korea is a dying state, their desperate for an ICBM but we'll deny them that by keeping up pressure through the UN. Worst case scenario we wait for the North Koreans to commit another of its aggressions and we push through with the South Koreans.

5. Welfare and Social Security
Keep 'em both, but reform Social security to make sure that the people still have their 401k

6. Drones
Keep 'em rolling, I want those little uavs up in the air hitting terrorists hard. Refine it and we got land based drones so our troops won't be in harms way.

7. Deficit
Ok we'll stick with fiat cash, but here's the thing, we penalize American businesses taking jobs out of America for their profit. Make 'em bring back jobs in the states. Reform the education system so we'll send out future "white-collar workers" instead of cheap unskilled labor. Then pay back the debt gradually through taxes on the rich, with a combination of closing loop holes and some spending cuts on unnecessary programs.

8. Electoral College
The electoral college is designed to prevent a mobocracy. Since the electoral college is doing its job I say let's keep it.

9. Gun Control
Ok, I am for gun control, but not for taking away guns. See we should have extensive criminal background checks, mandatory mental health check ups, mandatory gun safety, and making sure that those with guns do not show or give access to guns to those not ready for guns as was the case for the Sandy Hook shootings. The POS gun man killed his mother in her sleep and then took the guns. Unless she had properly placed those guns under lock and key and hid them from that POS I doubt this would've happened in Sandy Hook Elementary.

My running mate is......... Back from the dead Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Debate Round No. 3
lannan13

Pro

1. Abortion
My opponent States that he wants to take abortion out of politics and then in the same breath States that he wants to distribute more abortion pills when he stated that he wanted abortion out of politics. Couldn't he make up his mind. It is also very important that the child has parental permission before an abortion.
2. Gay marriage
My opponent believes in a complete legalization of gay marriage but according to the 10th Amendment States that it is left up to the each individual States for cases not stated in the Constitution. This is an issue to needed you be left up to the States.
3. Voting rights
It needs to be a federal priority. We have the dead lined up to vote. Also we must require a photo ID at voting unordered to keep down on voting fraud, so we can have a fare vote.
4. Foreign policy
ISRAELI Iran- Israel is are greatest ally and we must support them. Iran has been nothing but trouble for the US and they have threatened the US with scud middles that can take out any US base in the Middle East.
Syria- I agree with my opponent on Syria, but we must still support these reble s, because if we don't Syria could turn out to be another Egypt.
North Korea- At the minimum we post trade sanctions against this axis of evil nation and declare war on them if they attempt to aquire the nuclear bomb.
5. Welfare & Social Security
I agree with my opponet that people should be able to keep their 401k, but all in all Social Secuirty has had a bad streak of ruining people's retirement so inorder to prevent this from happening in the future Social Security must be abolished. As for Welfare it needs mass reformation, for example people that recieves its money must contribute back to society like maybe community service and they would need to push their applications. America has got thousands of jobs under Obama but where are they? Why are there still people on welfare if there are thousands of jobs have been created.
6. Drones
We agree here so lets not waiste time here.
7. Deficit
We do need to bring jobs back from over seas even if it means more expensive items, but the U.S. can finaly go back to the Made in the USA era. The trillion dollar coin can easily get us out of debt with many nations and soon the U.S. could be debt free. But as soon as we pay our debts of they'll apear again, because of our mass spending that needs to be cut.
8. Electorial Collage
I didn't say that the electorial collage should be abolished what I said was that the electorial college's main job should be to tally the popular vote and that elections should be determined by popular vote.
9. Gun Control
In the status quo we have extensive back round checks before one is even able to do paper work to get a gun. These back round checks take 5- 7 days and they get everything. So my opponet wouldn't be changing anything as a matter of fact he is just reinstating the status quo. There is no need to change it if it isn't broken. Like my momma always said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."
Rayze

Con

1. Abortion
Let me clarify myself, I stated how we the US could take abortion out of the political arena by having non-prescribed birth control pills. It basically allows the women to choose if they want to have a safe abortion, while simultaneously not forcing private religious businesses to cover birth control. Argument's of infringement of religion would be nullified as the Federal government won't need to take a stand on abortion.

2. Gay marriage
While my opponent rides on the 10th amendment for gay marriage, I still retain that the issue of gay marriage is strictly a 14th amendment right. The 10th amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The 14th amendment which protect the civil liberties of US citizens states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

3. Voting "Rights"
I still believe it is a state issue since several Federal investigations have found virtually no evidence of organized voter fraud, and this was during President Bush's term who pledged to crack down on voter fraud. (http://www.nytimes.com...)

4. Foreign Policy
Just because Israel is a great ally it doesn't mean that we must support them. While Iran's threats are extravagant, it only shows that Iran can only employ saber rattling tactics to goad the US, and Israel into striking first. We will show Iran we mean business, but we will also do so by denying the Iranians any sort of moral appeal.
Syria- Look if we try any of those Charlie Wilson's war crap for the Syrian rebels while they still have Al Qaida affiliates we might as well be supplying AA guns to the Hezbollah, AQAP, Hamas, and the Taliban. We need assurances those weapons won't fall into the wrong hands, and the rebels haven't assured us at all. I still think Egypt is better off than Northern Mali, if there is an urgent reason to intervene it is the likely hood of Syria becoming like Northern Mali or Afghanistan when the Taliban were in power.
North Korea- North Korea already has Nukes, they just don't have the technologies to make an ICBM. We are trying to prevent them from obtaining an ICBM which would mean that they could drop a nuke on US Soil or on allied soil. So far we don't know fully the new leader's aganda so we'll keep a wait and see attitude.

5.Welfare and Social Security
Welfare is actually a part of Social Security as it falls under unemployment benefits and Temporary Assistance for needy families. We use Social Security numbers to track individuals' accounts within the Social Security program. However SSN's have since been used as an identifier for individuals within the United States, although rare errors occur where duplicates do exist. However, since numbers are now assigned by the central issuing office of the SSA, it is highly unlikely that such duplications occur again. If we abolish Social Security then We will need to find another way to identify US citizens in legal transactions, and another way to retain the 401k.

6. Deficit
I still think Fiat money is far more viable than platinum money. Does anyone remember the Nixon-shock that made the US dollar unconvertible to gold? Well the economist Paul Krugman summarized the post-Nixon Shock era as, "The current world monetary system assigns no special role to gold; indeed, the Federal Reserve is not obliged to tie the dollar to anything. It can print as much or as little money as it deems appropriate. There are powerful advantages to such an unconstrained system. Above all, the Fed is free to respond to actual or threatened recessions by pumping in money. To take only one example, that flexibility is the reason the Stock Market Crash of 1987—which started out every bit as frightening as that of 1929—did not cause a slump in the real economy. While a freely floating national money has advantages, however, it also has risks. For one thing, it can create uncertainties for international traders and investors. Over the past five years, the dollar has been worth as much as 120 yen and as little as 80. The costs of this volatility are hard to measure (partly because sophisticated financial markets allow businesses to hedge much of that risk), but they must be significant. Furthermore, a system that leaves monetary managers free to do good also leaves them free to be irresponsible—and, in some countries, they have been quick to take the opportunity."

7. Electoral College
Your contention is essentially abolishing the electoral college. See in the Federalist Papers Essay No. 39 written by James Madison, it argues that the constitution is a mix between population and state-based government. It was argued that Congress would have two houses; a state-based Senate, and a population-based House of Representatives. At the same time, the President would be elected by a mixture of the two modes. Now if we decided to take out the primary function of the electoral college then we are promoting a mobocracy. Something that our founding fathers tried to prevent through the electoral college.

8. Gun control
While my arguments may seem like for the status quo, I am talking about laws similar to the one passed in New York, along with elements of California's gun control laws. The law passed in New York clamps down on the sale of ammunition and the sale of guns, requiring background checks on even the private sale of guns – except to family members. The New York law also attempts to keep the mentally ill from obtaining guns. While its true we had some back ground checks, none actually had mental-health screening and home inspections prior to a gun purchase. In the case of acquiring multiple fire arms we enact California legislation which has an individual wait a month before buying a second hand gun.
Debate Round No. 4
lannan13

Pro

1. Abortion
My opponent keeps ignoring the fact of that the abortion parent must get parental permission before an abortion or you get no abortion at all. It's as simple as that. Still abortion pills must still be prescribed or whatever the status quo is. My opponent doesn't seem to realize that people are going to have religion in their opinions whether they like it or not. For example right now my opponent is trying to force his atheism on Americans and that is still having religion in politics. Also my opponent keeps bringing up the 14th Amendment and that applies perfectly here now it states that it won't allow any state to pass laws to deny Americans the right to life! So this Amendment states that abortion is unconstitutional.

2. Gay Marriage
We should just keep going with the status quo here and allow states to ban and instate gay marriage as they chose. It's the people's (Utilitarianism) choices that affect the greatest good for the greatest number of people. We can't just legalize things all wily nilly we must go gradually and let the people decide.

3. Voting Rights
this is false according to a poll 52% of votes in the GOP votes against Obama were changed to be for Obama due to ACORN
http://www.thenation.com....

4. Foreign policy
We must protect our greatest ally or risk losing them, during the Obama Administration Obama treated Israel like Sh*t and we can't afford that! We must protect Israel from the evil in the Middle East.
Syria- Look until we know who the rebels is we must force Syria to stop this violence there has just been too much bloodshed there. My opponent is right we shouldn't have pulled out of Iraq and we shouldn't pull out of Afghanistan, because our enemy is still there!
North Korea- Okay my mistake but we must prevent them from getting ICBMs so they don't endanger the lives of Americans or anyone else's around the world.

5. Welfare & Social Security
My opponent drops the welfare reform idea so you can extend that argument. On Social Security I said it should be abolished since it has a huge debt total on the US debt that can be afforded. We still have birth certificates that ID Americans so it would be a loss at all.

6. Deficit
The current US dollar is losing value in today's world and the only thing that has any value worth more then gold is Platinum http://platinumprice.org.... My opponet says that gold isn't converatble to monatary system well I look into my wallet and I see two gold dollar coins. There are gold coins that are tributes to our past presidents. So if we did it with gold Platinum is just around the corner and we must speed up that corner.

7. Electorial Collage
My point here is that electorial collages shouldn't used to be determined to win an election, but they still can be used for counting votes that way the popular vote wins the election, because one only needs to win 10 states to get 270 electorial points to win the election.

8. Gun Control
No our 2nd Admendment allows us the right to bear arms (weather it's 1 or 15). Don't let our Constitution die! The government has no right to restrain our 2nd Admendment the only thing they have the right to do is an exstensive backround check.


Vote Lannan13, because Without Liberation there is no civilization.
Rayze

Con

Thanks for the debate Lannan13.

Ok now final rebuttals
1. Abortion
Look man the idea I'm proposing came from Bobby Jindal a REPUBLICAN governor of Louisiana. So you're saying that a women's right to her body is superseded by a fetus? That violates the 13th amendment which states, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.". This falls under involuntary servitude as States do not have the right to force a woman to remain pregnant. So your argument of Abortion is unconstitutional is false. (http://www.theatlanticwire.com...)

2. Gay Marriage
Why? If we kept up with your "Status quo" we are essentially neglecting our constitution. To which the President has a solemn oath protect the constitution, and at times be forced to poke temporary holes in extraordinary times to protect the nation. Should we really continue to violate the constitution simply because the majority wants to? Look the Republicans during the reconstruction years protected the rights of the minority African Americans by going out of their way to create and pass the 14th amendment. By doing so they basically overturned the power of the tenth amendment had on civil liberties.

3. Voting Fraud
Nice of you to misquote an article showing that voter fraud is rare. I still pass through with the same contention.

4. Foreign Policy
Again we must have a cool head and a logical strategy. I think you read my argument wrong.
See with Syria I said we shouldn't arm the rebels covertly like we did with the Mujahadeen since its basically arming any terrorist organization that calls itself the resistance. I didn't mention Iraq and I mentioned Taliban rule before We beat them out of Afghanistan to show that Egypt is actually on the better side of revolution.
NK- We're already working on it so you're just stating the status quo.

5. Welfare & Social Security
Ok, it seems that my contention on welfare hasn't gotten through to you. Welfare is a part of Social Security. If Social Security is abolished then you are abolishing welfare. No reforms like you said, just abolition of welfare and social security. So you're saying that Americans should carry their birth certificates on them? Thats BS I mean what about the online transactions which won't allow Birth Certificates. I mean if we go to birth certificates for identification thats like saying hey potential identity thieves, here's my personal info so why don't you all take my personal savings and create a huge debt thats stuck on me.

6. Deficit
So what if you have two gold dollars, it just shows that the fiat value of the US dollar is greater than the market value of gold. If you want to create a similar Nixon shock then by all means go ahead. We already have a flexible currency which will allow us to adjust the value of the dollar accordingly, so there is no need for platinum money.

7. Electoral College
My point is the prevention of a Mobocracy similar to France during the French revolution, or the political indecisiveness of Germany before Hitler took power. See we tried to use your idea of popular votes through something called popular sovereignty back in the 1800s. Well the results of that popular sovereignty led to an event called "Bleeding Kansas" and caused the Brooks-Sumner incident. Now unless we want to go back to those days of voter fraud and anarchy I say keep the electoral college.

8. Gun Control
Dude, I'm not saying we should ban guns, I'm saying we should regulate the sale of guns and ammo so that people like Lanza, Holmes, and other maniacs from getting them. It's still allows for the right to bear arms so it doesn't violate the constitution.

Without Liberation there is no civilization refers to anarchy so remember if you want a stable society vote Rayze, because I'm here to work with you in creating a better America
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Rayze 4 years ago
Rayze
Sorry bout the forfeit i was replying on another debate
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
lannan13RayzeTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: I liked con on just about every issue (minus defecit reduction. I didnt once here any form of a balanced budget amendment, reining in wasteful spending, or any actual useful ways to fight the deficit) so arguments to him. Conduct to pro though since con FF the first round.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 4 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
lannan13RayzeTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: R1 stated no F.F. Con F.F. in R2.