The Instigator
pattjk
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
XStrikeX
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Private religious schools should be shut down.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,862 times Debate No: 14081
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

pattjk

Pro

I thank my opponent in advance for accepting the debate.

I'll let my opponent start.

Thanks.
XStrikeX

Con

Many thanks for starting this debate, pattjk.
I have nothing to post for this round, since the Proposition has the burden of proof.
I hope this will be a fun debate and good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
pattjk

Pro

Thank you, XStrixeX for accepting my debate.

My contentions:

1. The children have no say.

Usually, children are placed in these private schools at a relatively young age. Parents get them started VERY quickly They are force fed these beliefs, and they have basically no say in it. Being exposed too all this at such a young age basically decides their lives for them. They almost never think for themselves because of these school environments.

2. Separation from other cultures.

When children go to these schools, they are only exposed to one culture: the Christian culture. They only have christian friends, they only read christian books. They only learn christian history. If all children were to go to public schools, they would experience different kinds of people every day and they would probably become more accepting.

3. Very money consuming

Parents usually work their arses off so their kids can hand stuff from the bible. Because the schools get all their money from the students, punishment isn't as harsh. For instance, come into class late in a public school, you get a detention. Come in late in a catholic school, you get a warning and then you pray.

4. There is only one place for religion: HOME.

As George Carlin said, there should be an eleventh commandment. "Keep thy religion to thyself." If parents are going to brainwash their children to believe in an invisible man, that's the parent own fault. But in no way, shape, or form should be people be getting PAID for brainwashing. It's ridiculous.

Thanks again to Con, and good luck :)
XStrikeX

Con

Thanks for the response!

Refutations

"The children have no say."

Well, children don't have says in many of the things in their young lives. A bunch of things that go on in a kid's life is because of a parent's choice. For example, a kid may just be doing a sport because his/her parent wants him/her to do it. It doesn't matter if the kid enjoys the sport. It's the parent's decision. Do we ban sports because the children have no say? No, and likewise, private religious schools shouldn't be shut down either.

"Separation from other cultures."

Private religious schools don't force you to adopt a sort of hate towards other religions. That's the only bad thing about separation and that piece does not come with a religious school. You can't force someone to go to public school just so that they can experience different people. They have their own religious freedom and can choose where they want to go. We don't shut down all-boy or all-girl schools, and these people still thrive in the corporate world. Why? Because they are connected to each other on the weekend's. Private religious schools are no different. You can still meet different people on the weekends and thus, there will be no "separation."

"Very money consuming"

Well, first off, that's simply an opinion. Secondly, it's the parent's decision whether or not they want to pay for the religious school. If they want to send their kid there, then that's their choice. You can't shut down a religious school because some person claims it sucks up money. Once again, it's the power of the choice.

"There is only one place for religion: HOME."

On the contrary. What about churches, mosques, and synagogues? I don't believe those are homes. You are allowed, at least in the US, to express your religious views anywhere you want, so long as it doesn't cause harm [1]. There is now law that prohibits the exercise and practice of a religion.

"But in no way, shape, or form should be people be getting PAID for brainwashing. It's ridiculous."

Who says they're brainwashing? At the end of this round, it would seem you are extremely prejudiced against religion. We don't know if a god exists... And we don't know if he doesn't. Perhaps evolution theories taught in schools are the real kind of brainwashing. You cannot claim that religion is equal to lies and brainwashing. That's pure prejudice and rude.

My opponent's points have all been refuted and the burden of proof is still upon the Proposition.
I await the next round.
Sources:
1. http://www.usconstitution.net...
Debate Round No. 2
pattjk

Pro

1. My opponent states that children having no say in things is normal. He compares religion too sports. MY issue is that religion is a BIT different than sports. Have a child play football at a young age doesn't make him play football until the day he dies. Theology and sports are very different things and sports have no place on this debate. When children are taught this at such a young age, it becomes their life. They usually never think for themselves in the time after their schooling. The problem with this is that the children wont just shake religion later on in life. This stuff sticks with them. What these private schools are teaching these children, the children strongly believe. Usually, kids who go too these religious schools never learn to question.

2. My opponent states that "Private religious schools don't force you to adopt a sort of hate towards other religions."
I don't recall stating they did. I stated that they are separated from other cultures, not prejudiced against them. Private schools kids don't really get too know other children of other religions. They are only exposed to their own culture. If these children were too go to public schools, they would meet new people from different faiths and ultimately be more accepting. And you can't tell me that these religious kids go out on weekends and look for atheists and agnostics too get to know them. If the children were to go to public schools they would be kind of forced into this multicultural society. My opponent also states that "They have their own religious freedom and can choose where they want to go."
This statement refers back to contention #1. These don't have ANY freedoms on the matter! They can't control if they are Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. It's the luck of the draw. It should be the kid's choice later in life if they want to be part of a certain religion.

3. I agree with you on your statement that it's the parent's choice, but in my opinion, the parent's aren't totally aware of what they are doing. I'm just stating that if there are no more private schools, then the parent's would save money, even if they are pissed. It's like drug addiction in some ways. They don't completely know what they are doing. They don't see the consequences (substantial loss of money every year) and they don't want too change. If the drug addict was forced to change (prison, rehab, etc,.) he wouldn't be the happiest person in the world. But in the end, it's all for the better of the individual.

4. My opponent states that places of worship are no different then private schools. You couldn't be more wrong. These children go too these schools EVERYDAY and learn about this stuff EVERYDAY. In the matter of holy places, they go there once a weeks and don't learn anything, because they are children and the context of church services are very different then the context of private school lessons. If a child were to go to public school and learn about all the different religions, and actually inform himself correctly about the world, the child would make his/her own decision based on their thoughts, and not their parents.

5. brainwashing - forcible indoctrination into a new set of attitudes and beliefs. [1]

I have every right too state that these kids are being brainwashed, and not just because it's my right, but because it is the total truth. These kids are taught this stuff at such a young age, when they are learning about the world through their own eyes, and when they are taught this stuff by grown ups, it's the utmost truth to them. They can't question it, their kids. And when they continue to "learn" this stuff, it only worsens their judgment. My opponent asks why I state that private schools should be shut down? This is the biggest and most important reason. These "teachers" are breaching these kid's mind and making them believe in their religion, because they are getting paid to do it. That is outrageous. These children's futures are basically decided by these schools, and I am very angered by it.

child abuse - the physical or emotional or sexual mistreatment of children [2]

In closing, these schools are basically forms of child abuse. They totally mistreat these children in way my opponent may not comprehend, but most of the intelligent human population may. They basically destroy their judgment skills
for the rest of their lives, and that's worse than slapping a kid if you ask me. Before, my opponent states that it's pure prejudice and rude that I state these things. I must agree with you. I was very rude. But there comes a certain point in every atheist/agnostic's life that they realize what religion has done too the world and what it's continuing to do. When a person comes too that realization, he/she learns that being rude, may be the only way to reach these brainwashed people's thick skulls. I hope that my opponent sometime may come to a realization himself and step outside the comfort box of an average christian citizen and take a good look at the world, not through his eyes, but through everyone elses.

I eagerly await the rebuttle, and thanks once again for the opportunity to debate this subject.

(Sources)

[1] http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
[2] http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
XStrikeX

Con

Thanks for the great debate, pattjk.
I guess it's time to wrap up.

Refutations

"MY issue is that religion is a BIT different than sports. Have a child play football at a young age doesn't make him play football until the day he dies. Theology and sports are very different things and sports have no place on this debate. When children are taught this at such a young age, it becomes their life."

There's absolutely no evidence that when a child is taught a religion, he/she is somehow chained to it throughout the rest of their life. I compared sports to religion as an example of little to no choice as a child. It's totally normal. You gain the ability to choose when you're a young adult. No one's there to monitor you. You can pick your own religion or go atheist, just like you can choose to continue to play, say, football or give it up.

"I stated that they are separated from other cultures, not prejudiced against them. Private schools kids don't really get too know other children of other religions. They are only exposed to their own culture."

So prejudice is out of the matter, it would seem. That's good. Prejudice would've been bad. Anyways, when you have a religious child, that kid is not going to exist in a cut-off world. For example, a Christian child is not going to meet and talk with 1000 Christian children and no one else. The Christian child can't shop at a specifically Christian supermarket or hang out at a Christian-only park. Just because you go to a Christian school does not mean everything in your life is 100%, pure Christian. That's ludicrous. Everybody's already integrated into this society filled with people of all ethnicities, racial backgrounds, and religions. As you and I agree, a Christian kid won't learn to hate them. And that same child will not be separated from them, as our societies are mixed ones. In a normal week, a child will spend 35 hours in a school. That leaves 35 hours on weekdays alone. Combined with 28 hours on weekends, that kid will have 63 hours to spend at a park, or hang out with friends, or go somewhere else in the public. There's only a little bit of room for separation, but otherwise, that kid has plenty of experience with other types of people.

"It should be the kid's choice later in life if they want to be part of a certain religion."

And they have that choice! Just because a kid learns "x" religion doesn't means that person, as an adult, will have to stay with that religion. You can form your own opinion in life, once you break free from the bonds of your parents. Once again, there is no evidence.

"I'm just stating that if there are no more private schools, then the parent's would save money, even if they are pissed. It's like drug addiction in some ways. They don't completely know what they are doing."

If there truly exists a parent who doesn't know that he/she is taking money out of their pocket and giving it to a school, I say they're definitely crazy. But we don't have the right to teach them how to live their life. We can't shut down all parochial schools just because a few parents are giving them money they don't have. Doesn't that just spoil it for all the other good-mannered, sane parents? It certainly does. Argument negated.

"My opponent states that places of worship are no different then private schools. You couldn't be more wrong. These children go too these schools EVERYDAY and learn about this stuff EVERYDAY."

I don't understand how you insinuated that my argument was that places of worship are no different than private schools. Your original argument was that religion only exists in the home. I merely gave examples of other places that have religion.

"If a child were to go to public school and learn about all the different religions, and actually inform himself correctly about the world, the child would make his/her own decision based on their thoughts, and not their parents."

Now, honestly, how many children can truly form their own decision on the world from politics to religion? Parents have many, MANY influences on their kids early on. They can implant their own political ideologies in their kid, and they also have the right to plant their religious fundamentals there as well. In the United States, of all the children in the country, only 6.5% of Republicans came from a liberal household and 18.8% of Democrats came from a conservative household [1]. How much influence was there? It would seem that there was a lot.

"I have every right too state that these kids are being brainwashed, and not just because it's my right, but because it is the total truth."

Assuming that parochial schools were banned and parents wished to send their kid there, if they weren't "brainwashed" to learn a religion in a parochial school, they most likely would have learned the same religion from their parents. Once more, just because a kid learns this religion does not mean that the kid is stuck with the religion throughout their entire life. They are able to choose once they grow up. Many decisions are made by parents when you're a young kid, but once you grow up and become an adult, you can forge your own path.

"In closing, these schools are basically forms of child abuse. They totally mistreat these children in way my opponent may not comprehend, but most of the intelligent human population may."

Ouch. That stings. But anyways, do parochial schools physically harm a student? Do they completely scar him/her for the rest of their lives? No, they're just doing what they're payed to do. Teach religion along with normal education! They don't want to hurt a kid and there's absolutely no evidence that they even are. The most basic of things they're teaching is some sort of religion + regular education. You can't call that abuse.
Furthermore, please don't assume that I'm Christian simply because I'm defending this.

Plusses of Parochial School [2]

1. Authority and self-discipline are taught at these schools.
2. Children at parochial schools are taught to work harder and have more focus than the average public school student.
3. Offers religious teachings which can be beneficial for a parent's needs.

Conclusion

The Proposition has viewed religion hatefully and has seen it as "brainwashing" and "abusive." I tell you that these parochial schools are none of these things. They exist for parents who want their children to learn a regular education, tacked on with religious studies. Sure, a parent may be forcing their child to attend these kinds of schools. But a parent is also forcing the child to attend a school in the first place! As a child, you don't have much say in whatever you do. Your life will not be forever determined by what your parent's believe you should do. Once you become mature and can truly learn, you can make your own decisions and forge your own path in life. All of the Proposition's arguments have been refuted and the burden of proof has never truly been answered. For these reasons, please vote CON.

Sources:
1. http://ase.tufts.edu...
2. http://school.familyeducation.com...
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by pattjk 6 years ago
pattjk
:) No prob. Thanks for the great debate.
Posted by XStrikeX 6 years ago
XStrikeX
Many thanks and great debate! It was fun.
Posted by pattjk 6 years ago
pattjk
You can find it on amazon or you can find it online for free.

http://www.atheistnation.net... (free link)

http://www.amazon.com... (high quality link)
Posted by XStrikeX 6 years ago
XStrikeX
Sounds interesting... Where can I find it?
Posted by pattjk 6 years ago
pattjk
I suggest XStrikeX too watch a documentary called Jesus Camp. It may be a bit extreme, but it basically reflects the issue quite well.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by arethusa668 6 years ago
arethusa668
pattjkXStrikeXTied
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Vote Placed by EuphoricTurtle 6 years ago
EuphoricTurtle
pattjkXStrikeXTied
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Vote Placed by DS28 6 years ago
DS28
pattjkXStrikeXTied
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