The Instigator
KJVPrewrather
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Privately funded religious entities have the right to dscriminate.

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after 1 vote the winner is...
FollowerofChrist1955
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/8/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 304 times Debate No: 105665
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

KJVPrewrather

Pro

I'm not a conservative, but I am a centrist. I will demonstrate my position. Make the first move.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con


That is incorrect with scripture. In accordance with .. hereafter referred to as IAW The Holy Scriptures. Capitalizations are emphasis (not screaming) please remember this.


To discriminate, infers CHOICE …. The Church Body HAS none! We are directed and governed by the Holy Scriptures alone. These Words make known from the start that as believers of Christ, we have the right to CHOSE between Life and Destruction and Right to BECOME sons of God (or daughters as is appropriate) OUR RIGHTS? Cease right there!


As example: Denominations are NOT given the RIGHT to CHOOSE how they will Worship! Thus they are in disobedience Today! They CHOOSE what scriptures they believe and don’t believe! They serve the god of SELF, thereby forfeiting the RIGHT of son or daughter ship. To be a son or daughter you MUST BE a Disciple … whether you are or not is determined by Holy Scriptures!


Here: IAW Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34, Matthew 16:24


Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.


*** Failure to do this results in forfeiture of Son/daughter-ship


IAW Luke 14:27


And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.


Matthew 10:38


and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.


Note* IF you CANNOT BE His Disciple, and ARE NOT worthy of Him … how can you be a Son or Daughter?



To CHOOSE to interpret scripture (FORBIDDEN IAW 2 Peter 1:20,21), you are in violation of The Holy Scriptures. To CHOOSE HOW you will Worship instead of following the scriptures … you clearly ARE NOT denying yourself are you?


2 Peter 1: 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


Proof of Rights;


IAW Deuteronomy 30:15-20 .. for brevity sake only the focus is here:


15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.


19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live



Thus right of choice #1. You may Choose Life or destruction!



IAW … John 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God —



Right of choice #2. You may Choose to become a Son or daughter of God! Note that it does NOT say, you are given the right to BE! This is clear …. You MUST EARN it! It is not given freely as is Salvation.




End of Rights Statement: IAW 1 Corinthians 6:19-20


19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.



To NOT be your own tells you just that! YOU cannot do as YOU will, but as your TOLD!



Additional confirmation here. IAW Romans 9:20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"



IAW Job 38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:


2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you,


and you shall answer me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.



I encourage all denominationalists to READ all of this chapter and ponder YOUR behavior before The Living God!



Let us now set what is instructed by God to His people, Followers and Disciples! Regarding His Church!


IAW 1 Corinthians 5:12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to judge those inside?


1 Peter 1:15 but, like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct, 16 for it is written, “You shall be holy, because I am holy.”


1 Peter 2:5 you yourselves, as living stones, are built up as a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood and to offer spiritual sacrifices that are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.



And to those who practice SIN? IAW 1 Corinthians 5:4When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough



The warning clear … let NO ONE who LIVES IN SIN, be members of the church!



And who are these then? IAW Romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



All have eyes to see, ears to hear, all have discernment that are of God. His command is clear …


IAW Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.



IAW 1 Peter 2: 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.



15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.


16 [Act] as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but [use it] as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.



Thus we welcome the saints and sinners alike into the church to hear the word of God, none is forbidden entrance? The homosexual, the thief, the drunkard, the Liar, The Murderer … were WE also not as they in times past, how then are they to hear Gods word, if not by us or by church ministry? Membership is of God …. That a church ordain a homosexual or thief or murderer …. Does this somehow MAKE them Holy and without SIN? Nonsense! It is God who blesses and curses.



The point is all are welcomed in churches but membership is Gods to give alone! Active sinners are forbidden membership when it is known by the congregation of believers … God knows all, man does not! Let us withhold judgements that are not without basis. Trusting in Gods provision and guidance alone!



So does Privately funded religious entities have the right to discriminate. NO, but neither is it necessary … active sinners do not actively seek churches do they. Those who are in search of God do … that they are living in sin at the moment, well so did we ALL at some point BEFORE coming to Christ …. Did we not?


Debate Round No. 1
KJVPrewrather

Pro

The problem with liberals is that they twist Scripture. My pastor has the right to discriminate against gay couples because his brand of Christianity dsyd that's wrong. I disagree with him, but my pastor still has First Amendment rights. Mu favorite Christian bookstore has the right to not engrave praises to the Quran on a book or Bible. I used to get paid to design jewelry, and I have the right to refuse service to somone that wants me to design something that violates my beliefs. Freedom of religion is a right.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con


It has been said that a picture is worht a thousand words.

I present to the Christian Communities aroun the World ... The New Christians of the World, right here and all over the internet on multiple debates ongoing at this very moment.

Quote" The problem with liberals is that they twist Scripture. My pastor has the right to discriminate against gay couples because his brand of Christianity dsyd that's wrong. I disagree with him, but my pastor still has First Amendment rights. Mu favorite Christian bookstore has the right to not engrave praises to the Quran on a book or Bible. I used to get paid to design jewelry, and I have the right to refuse service to somone that wants me to design something that violates my beliefs. Freedom of religion is a right." Unquote.


Saved souls who profess Christ without commitment to study Gods Word, without the knowledge of Gods Word, without understanding of scripture references, without a CLUE of what God actually says or believes Himself. We have become a Religion of Self-Beliefs, 43,000 of them? Whose only words consist of secular speeches, whose sole defense is well ...My Pastor has Rights?


IF your Pastor knows scripture even He knows your wrong ... because He's the only one whose reading the Bible? His error lies in the addition of secularist books written by Men, who are(and all Pastors should know this) in Violation of Gods command "NOT" to personally interpret the Word of God! IAW 2 Peter1:20-21


20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Now I think the Athiest can even understand this one? Lets go slow.

1. Above all you must understand ..... pretty clear so far, mean we MUST UNDERSTAND this point .. right?

2. that no prophecy of Scripture ... okay got it ... THE BIBLE .... yeah okay got it!

3.that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation ..... check .. the PROPHETS DID NOT interpret Gods WORD .. they put down WHAT THEY WERE TOLD .... got it!



Special Note** Prophets did not put down what they thought it said! simple Right?



WRONG! Do you know that there are thousands of Scholars, Pastors and Theologins who state that's NOT what it meant? Though they claim to interpret scripture by scripture ... they actually use commentaries, Books written by Professors, Philosophers, prominent authors ... all MEN! None God, and none apparently able to decipher 2 Peter 1:20-21 without concordence, dictionary and Theological opinion? or texts!



That's it folks ... the HARDEST scripture that has literally Flummoxed the entire Scholastic, Theological, and Seminary Doctorate, of every city, state and Country!



in consideration of this fact .... and 43,000 differing Denominations, who are called by His name! Appear to have left the building ... burned their bibles, tied their nose-rings to their Pastors keychain and follow blindly the words of Men! Gone are the days of sharing of the scriptures among the Brethren ... The Brethren no longer know Scriptures! Gone are the days of Believing what the Bible says, we now follow what the commentators are saying, completely ignoring the Word of truth, for the words of Men.



On Deaf Ears fall the scripture-IAW Isaiah 65:2

"I have spread out my hands all the day long to a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;"

Who appear not to know what "You are not your own" means spoken of in 1 Coritnians 6:19



Using ignorant sayings like "My pastor has the right to discriminate against gay couples because HIS BRAND of Christianity dsyd that's wrong." That comes straight out of the never READ the Bible Clef Notes.Under MISTAKEN BELIEFS!



IAW 2 Timothy 3;16

All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,




The purpose for being out on the boards is not to promote denominations, nor to attempt to convince a sinner that they should "try-on" God for size! It si to advise them that should they perish by accident or design, they will DIE IN their SINS and go to Hell, without Hope of restoration with God throughout eternity!



It is "NOT" to prove a thing to any unbeliever! In fact were you to read the Bible from cover to cover, you will not find a single reference that instructs us to provide "Proof" of God to anyone! God has that covered Himself! it can be found in

Romans 1;18-19

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."



AND



Ezekiel 3:18-19

18 When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.



Plain and simple, no ambiguity! Sin and your Dead! But all men die Right? Wrong ... Sinners DIE TWICE!

IAW Revelation 20:14

"And death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.



IAW Matthew 10:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.



SIGH! I have allowed myself to speak as myself more in this than most other areas. The cause is simple. Everyone can argue with "opinions" which is what the unbelievers are getting in abundance on this rligion section of the debate.org. They don't need what your being taught by Pastors! The Pastors job is done once you become a believer!After that the work and esponsibility to prepare ypurself for the ministry is fully upon you and you alone!



You are to study Gods Word diligently, with commitment and daily, you are to Pray Daily and you are to ask ALL questions to God ALONE! If you want an opinion ask your Pastor, if you want the Truth ask God as you have been told to do!



IAW John 6;45

It is written in the propets"They will all be taught by God." Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me



1 Thessalonians 4:9

Now about brotherly love, you do not need anyone to wrire to you, because you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another.



1 John 2:27

And as for you, the anointing you recieved from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.



Phillipians 3:16

All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think diferently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.



In closing, if your Pastor is telling you what your telling me, then he's just as wrong as you. I should not have to tell you that there are people in all professions that are incompetent. To just through caution into the wind, believing what your Told as opposed to upholding YOUR obligation to God to KNOW His Word .... expertly ... obviously more than your Pastormay know! Based on what your saying.



God readily tells us to KNOW OUR Bible so we are not shown to be liars and irresponsible people of God!



IAW 2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.



1 Chorinthians 3

3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly- mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For one says, "I follow Paul, " and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?



allow me to break it down for you ...



I am Catholic?

I am NonTrinitarian?

I am Baptist?

I am Methodist?

I am Lutheran?

I am ____________ put whatever denomination you like here?



now I repeat the question: 4 For one says, "I follow Paul, " and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?
Debate Round No. 2
KJVPrewrather

Pro

If I am privately funded and something goes against my religious beliefs, I have the right not to participate.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

Quote"If I am privately funded and something goes against my religious beliefs, I have the right not to participate" .Unquote

So you believe in God, but have no intention of following Gods word, Gods wishes nor Gods commands? Is that about Right?

(Capitalizations are for emphasis, not raising voice ... please remember this, i would normally just bold type, but I "m not always on my computer and the Debate board doesn"t give me the option to bold type on my Ipad, thus capitalization is required for emphasis!) Thank you. Continuing my thoughts now ...

Then you are the lowest among the 3 types of believers revealed in the scriptures. That would be those called the People of God, described IAW 1 Corinthians 3:15 .. you will suffer loss but are SAVED ONLY, though you WILL be saved as one having escaping THROUGH THE FLAMES!

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13"their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person"s work. 14"If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Hmmm, Don"t know what that means, "as ONE escaping THROUGH the Flames" doesn"t sound good though. Truthfully I have never felt the need to ask? Since God makes me aware of my standing in Christ.

I am acutely aware of Gods presents at all moments of the day! All things I consciously filter THROUGH God. This not of myself ... but God is constantly training me. I begin morning with prayer, asking for God to help me to DIE to the self, and to teach me His Word, revealing their meanings as He quickens the Spirit within me!

I have found WHEN you don"t begin you morning WITH prayer, and Bible study, you think only about yourself throughout your day, what YOU Think, what you believe and want! God never enters your mind till night prayer ... IF you pray at all, except on Sunday!

I see this is no doubt YOUR life, as your completely illiterate to Gods word, and know OF God, but do not KNOW God personally. You will no doubt put up some misguided futile attempt to object, yet Facts are facts aren"t they? You don"t KNOW scriptures, which indicates you Don"t study Gods word ... I submit ... HOW can you possibly KNOW HIM?

The Atheists also don"t read the Bible ... just as well claim THEY KNOW God! Uhhh .... No!

No your saved .... perhaps. That again depends on God doesn"t it ... and you DON"T KNOW HIM do you? Might want to look up this scripture and do some self evaluating BEFORE you die
James 2:19
"18But someone will say, "You have faith and I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and shudder! 20 O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?

I see scriptures may be wasted upon you, as you APPEAR to insist on ignoring What God says for what your Pastor says! Sup to you, but your Pastor isn"t your Judge is He, and if you don"t KNOW your Judge, you could well be in for a huge surprise at death? Only God knows. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers!

Don"t really see much point in continuing this debate with you, your not prepared, you know nothing of God, your loaded with opinions, all of them wrong! Still, I"ll continue to show you the scriptures that point out your Wrong and perhaps you"ll actually learn something ... hey, it could happen?
Debate Round No. 3
KJVPrewrather

Pro

Congress shal make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise therof. -The First Amendment.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God! .... Hebrews 10:31

15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3:15
Debate Round No. 4
KJVPrewrather

Pro

If my religion says something is wrong, I have the right to not participste.
FollowerofChrist1955

Con

In closing, your arguements I'm afraid demonstrated a complete lack of foundation? Are we talking about Christian requirements or Man's requirements? Based solely on your references, none of which holds water scripturally ... have they not already ordaining Gay and Lesbians into the Pulpits now? Thus your arguement is moot.... yes?
See the problem I think, is your delivery, your arguement was or at least appears to be totally focused upon the LGBT segment of society? Likewise your arguement is stated incorrectly at the start! While it is biblically sound that no active sinner may join the church membership, there is no exemption for anyone to attend any church any where, sinners are most welcome in church! The entire membership of churches throughout the entire world were and are sinners now am I not correct?
Based on the facts, Christians did not cease being sinners in this life? We have simply been changed. We now live our ... well some of us it would appear, in the hope of Christerving the Risen Lord, each and every day. Though our bonds of sin has been broken ... am I not correct that we in point of fact do fall from time to time? The only difference between myself and any other sinner is merely one of forgiveness, isn't that true?
We are all, forgive by virtue of ouracceptence of Christ awesome sacrifice ... Christ has paid our sin debt, past, present and future! We get to go to Heaven freely, not because we earned it ... we could not earn it. We are allowed in Heaven solely as a GIFT ... a testment as it were, to the majesty and Love of God. I didn't say our God because He is God over and of all, whether one chooses to accept His offer of Heaven for free or not!
All sinners are loved of God, some sinners alas will simply not be allowed passage into Heaven because of sin debt! You see sinners cannot enter Heaven. WE could not eneter Heavenssave for Christ coverage (forgiveness) of our sins. We enter Heaven not of ourselves but through the person of Christ. That is to say each of us ... was given the righteousness of God, that when the Father gazes upon US hHe's does not see our righteouness, for we have none, He see's the righteousness of Christ that was imputed to us?
So your arguement, based totally on illiteracy of Biblical study, and it appears even worldly knowledge, is of little real use, isn't it? Sinners of all sorts, from murders to rapist, to Thieves and Liars ARE IN FACT most welcome in Church. You don't know scripture, but it does say, that Christ was not sent for the Righteous, but for sinners. Did Christ Himself not eat with sinners? Of what use would it have been for Him to eat with the Pharisees?
Hmmm .... yes , the pharisees, that is a sore point in human history. For they knew the Bible, They could quote it outright. They Tithed a tenth as directed .... the only real problem is they were lost! I know you don't know scripture, but it does say in scripture that you must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisee. High bar indeed, These were the Religious of the Religious .... Ahh THAT'S where I heard your term ..."If my religion says"
Yes ... if your religion says goes the saying. Religion shall not save a single soul sadly! Only God can do that, and if he doesn't know you, you will not see God. You see you must have come to God in genuiness, humble spirit, you must genuinely Love God to recieve the FREE GIFT of eternal Life, you must have come to God with a sincere heart ... if not?
According to Romans You must 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

but there is MORE isn't there? Theres your debate titled "Privately funded religious entities have the right to dscriminate."

Yet Scripture says: Romans 10:14
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

So much for your debate! Your wrong! There is no discrimination in Church allowed of Men! It is God, who rules, and those He accepts ARE accepted and those not accepted ... be NOT accepted though they be ordained a Pope! So you see the point Again ... becomes moot! Jesus is Lord, Only what is written in scriptures are to be followed ... God has not given us Rights of the World, in point of Fact ... we are given only 3 Rights on Earth.

1. We have the Right to choose Life or Destruction!

In accrdance with .. "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" Deuteronomy 30:19

and we have the right to "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

also "For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him," Philippians 1:29

to discriminate? how is that suffering to YOU? Is that not stiffnecked? Selfish? Petty?
Where are the signs of your suffering? It is not even heard in your tone!
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Outplayz 7 months ago
Outplayz
KJVPrewratherFollowerofChrist1955Tied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Con used many sources to show that this isn't the case with Christianity. Pro uses no sources.