The Instigator
regiets99
Pro (for)
The Contender
Vox_Ex_Rationis
Con (against)

Pro Jews or Con Muslims

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 300 times Debate No: 99772
Debate Rounds (2)
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regiets99

Pro

I hate Muslims because of wrathful jealousy over Islamic literature, philosophy, architecture, and the diversity of Muslim culture; also over the beauty and intriguing grammar of Arabic; the continuity and depth of Islamic legal thought; also over the fascinating interdiscursivity between Muslim cultures and our own; and besides, what is it like to experience Ramadan and Hajj (?), and over their cuisine and (easier) dietary rules; and over those cute prayer rugs; about their delight in learning so much more geography for Islamic lands, not to mention the historical complexity; and never having to be a minority anywhere (lol); over the chanting of the Quran and those eerie Persian melodies; and the abhorrent calligraphy and traditional textiles; the gentle harmony among sects; Sufi dancing and insights; the difference between sharia and fiqh; to be cont.
Vox_Ex_Rationis

Con

This is not a serious debate, so I will take advantage of this opportunity to present a message of reason against the forces of ignorance and hatred that have taken root in the west's religion of peace: Progressive Western Secularism.

Religious or Atheist, Conservative or Liberal, White or Non-White. If you have been raised and educated in a western nation, than you are almost certainly a Progressive Western Secularist, and you have the privilege of access to fundamental human rights that many people around the world do not have access to. You have the privilege of viewing yourself as a free thinking moral agent, and you are affluent compared to most of humanity throughout history and location.

As a progressive western secularist, is is vital not to buy into the narrative that other people's religion is inherently the source of all evil, and that secularism is guiltless.

Both the historical crusades, and the current jihad, are a response to foreign aggression and imperialism.

Islamic imperial expansion and military aggression gave the crusades the moral impetus necessary to gain traction as a response. Similarly, secular western imperialism has given Islamic jihad movements the subjective moral justification necessary to gain support in their host countries.

Rather than keel over paralyzed by Progressive Western Secular guilt and finger pointing, the mature stance is to objectively analyze why things are the way they are, and steel yourself for the difficult times ahead of us. Also, realize that you will potentially be forced to make difficult decisions as a free moral agent. Avoid ethnocentrism in all it's forms.
Peace, and may your pens stay sharp.
-Vox Ex Rationis.
Debate Round No. 1
regiets99

Pro

I'm going to answer by saying this is only a very modern question. You are asking for an historical answer, but history shows Jews and Muslims can get along quite well.

My mother, a Jew, was born in Casablanca, in Morocco, as her mother was, and her mother, going back as far as anyone could find. Morocco is Muslim by law, with Sultans and rulers using their link to Mohammed as the only reason they need to rule and protect their subjects. At the time, there were over a quarter million Jews just in that country, while today, there are at most 5000 (and fewer every day). My mother's family left decades ago to Paris, Israel, or through marrying an American serviceman. What I just wrote is about as much detail as you'll ever find about this migration from Morocco. I've often thought there is more worth writing about it, but in English it has been pretty much ignored.

My family's opinion of Muslims is very different from hate. There are many stories from the older "Tante"s about good friends left behind, or about Mimouna, and they take pride in their Moroccoan dishes. They also speak with reverence about their memories of the King - there are some stories of how he protected the Jews from the Vichy government (read as Nazis), how he has Jewish advisers, and in general how life was good. It's a different opinion than you hear in the press for certain. That Jews and Muslims can grow up side by side, be great friends, find ways to contribute to a shared society and become old with many shared experiences.

There are also many historical documents of happy coexistence. Maimonides, a Moroccan and Jewish figure that left volumes of essential religious writings that shaped and influenced both Jews and Muslims (and more Christians than you think) to this day, once wrote it is permissible for a Jew to pray in a Mosque (and they should when traveling). Imagine what sort of respect had to go both ways for that to be the norm. The accepted opinion was Muslims and Jews worship the same God, period. Of course one could make all sorts of notes about how Muslims dominated, Jews could not participate in politics, etc, but that is just noise that ignores that normal people can get along in many different circumstances.

So why? Politics and the press, who get way more clicks by getting us into a "fight or flight" reaction. People that hated integration changed their mind after working with a black coworker, people against gay marriage change their mind after moving next door to a pleasant gay couple that is nothing like the stereotypes they have heard of, and Jews and Muslims can get along fine if they make the effort to get together, have a conversation, drink a beer or smoke a hooka together. There's a much bigger lesson there that is applicable way outside of this discussion, obviously.First, it is important to understand that not all Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arabs. While a majority of Arabs are Muslims, there are many non-Muslim Arabs. Further, there are significantly more non-Arab Muslims in areas such as Indonesia and Malaysia than there are Arab Muslims. Second, it is important to remember that not all Arabs hate Jews, not all Muslims hate Jews, and not all Jews hate Arabs and Muslims. We must be careful to avoid stereotyping people. However, generally speaking, Arabs and Muslims have a dislike of and distrust for Jews, and vice-versa.

If there is an explicit biblical explanation for this animosity, it goes all the way back to Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Abraham"s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham"s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (Genesis 16:1"16) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham (Genesis 21:1"3), obviously there would be some animosity between the two sons. As a result of Ishmael"s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (Genesis 21:11"21). Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmael"s heart toward Isaac. An angel told Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation (Genesis 21:18) and, interestingly, that Ishmael would be "a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone"s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers" (Genesis 16:12).

However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility between Jews and Arabs today. The religion of Islam, which a majority of Arabs follow, has made the hostility predicted of Ishmael more profound. The Qur"an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. The Qur"an also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Qur"an says it was Ishmael. The Qur"an teaches that it was
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