The Instigator
ENG101
Pro (for)
The Contender
FrankLee
Con (against)

Pro and Con in Trump's Wall

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,759 times Debate No: 101088
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

ENG101

Pro

The Mexican border wall is an issue of controversy; on one side stands people who believe the wall will benefit the country and on the other side people that claim it will bring consequences to the nation. The reason behind building the wall is to bring safety and overall security to the United States. Take into consideration what the horn editorial team published in their article "Three reasons we need Trump's wall" regarding terrorists encounters, "It was revealed that there were 7,712 terrorists encounters in the U.S. in the past year between July 2015 and July 2016." And it reveals how the majority of "terrorists are making their way into our country through Mexico, and the current administration isn"t doing anything about it! A Trump presidency would mean stricter enforcement of immigration laws and a secure wall at the border that"s currently welcoming in terrorists." People live in constant fear knowing that there is no barrier protecting them from the southern border. It is as if terrorists are given the opportunity to freely enter the states with no risk of being caught. However, are illegal immigrants the cause behind the chaos? Terrorism is defined by the following: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. An illegal immigrant will not pursue the attention from the government. They are less likely to commit any crime for they know that it will only jeopardize their stance in the United States. However, there are illegal immigrants that do commit crimes, but these crimes are in no way any form of terrorism. Kurt Eichenwald in his article Illegal Immigration" stated the following: " Multiple studies by government and academic groups have found that the vast majority of the rest of immigrants without documentation involved immigration charges."""In fact, 90% of illegal immigrants found in the federal prison are serving sentence" due to immigration charges or drug violation. They are far from being charged"due to violence against civilians in pursuit of a political aim. Thus, building a wall will not decrease the number of terrorist encounters for it is not illegal immigrants that cause them. As we can see, Trump's border wall has pros and cons"to it, it is only a matter of how you see it.
FrankLee

Con

Well this is my first debate ever, let's see how it goes.

For starter, I think I will debunk the article [https://thehornnews.com...] you provided.
First, the news outlet appears to be skewed entirely to the political-right. On top of that, the three reasons they listed are not even relevant to our safety except for the first one -- provided the information was true, which I highly doubt. Sorry, but if you click on the link provided by the article it redirects you to a Breitbart article, which also redirects you to a main FBI page. However no factual statistics or analysis for terrorist illegals can be found. I'm calling it, bad journalism... Can't fact-check it...

Onto the next reason listed by the article, hmmm ICE seems to support this policy? You mean there's no self-interest involved? Of course creating the wall would mean more job openings for immigration control and thus more job security. Not to mention that current ICE employees will have seniority over the incoming employees. Why would they turn down a promotion? Second reason from article = dead.

The last reason by the article states that Mexico will pay for the wall. Not sure if we even need to debate this part? Its going to be funded by American tax-dollars.
http://www.npr.org...
-from DT himself [https://twitter.com...]

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You stated that: "People live in constant fear knowing that there is no barrier protecting them from the southern border."
I'm not sure how to address this reasoning either since I find the line of argument to be irrational. Have we been living in this constant fear since we drew up our borders with Mexico? What about our Northern borders -- Canada? Shouldn't we build a wall there too by this rational? Its even less secured than our Southern borders at the moment. More to the point, how will a wall protect us exactly? It might just be me, but there are things called airplanes in the fantasy world that I live in. There are boats that can go around the walls... Not sure, but I don't think there has been any wall in history that has prevented a *determined enemy* from infiltrating. What it will do, is isolate us from our allies and potential allies as we show the world how narrow-minded we are.

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Your last argument points that illegals are actually serving sentences unrelated to any violent crimes let alone for terrorism. Another reason to *Not* build the wall. I found this article from CATO.org [https://www.cato.org...] that refutes the exaggerated claims of foreign terrorism in the US. Most terrorism in the US is homegrown, perhaps we should wall off these suspects homes instead? [https://archives.fbi.gov...
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Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
A majority of drugs come from the southern border, that's the fact. Meth production in my opinion would remain the same, but it might have the grounds to expand. I'm saying that there would be no conflict over illegal immigration. The concern with Republicans like me is, if you do give 12 million illegals citizenship, who does it benefit? Democrats, because minorities favor Democrats. My personal belief is to build the wall and then give them legal status, but no citizenship. It would stop future illegal immigration and solve the problem here.
Posted by FrankLee 1 year ago
FrankLee
You still having addressed the issue of meth production in the United States. If we can't take eradicate meth in our States, how are you proposing that by having Mexico as a state would some how curb weed production? But you know what I find most funny about your argument? Most illegals are from Mexico... Wouldn't having Mexico as a state make them all legal citizens? What would Republicans be crying about afterwards? I mean wouldn't be able to use illegal immigrants as guise to oppress them anymore... Not saying that this is your view, but this seems to be the general consensus among your Republicans peers.
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
No is saying there will be a problem. I'm just saying there wouldn't be Mexican cartels. The majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, so that would be reduced. And the wall would be cheaper because there is a smaller border.

If Mexico were a part of the U.S., it would be like Texas, as I mentioned earlier. Same governing system. As the other states. It would be extremely likely that there wouldn't be drug cartels like the ones Mexico has within the U.S.
Posted by FrankLee 1 year ago
FrankLee
Well, whose to say what hypothetical events would conspire, but I do agree that Mexico as a state would have the same situation as the border states. That is to say that no matter where we draw our borders, it will always be about illegal immigrants -- this time from Guatemala and Belize. So what difference would that make had we annexed Mexico?

How would you argue that Drug Cartels would be eliminated? Drug Cartels are not confined to Mexico alone. But for argument's sake, lets restrict this to only Mexico as a state. How does having Mexico as a state stops Drug Cartels? Somehow the status of being part of the US would eliminate drug cartels and the movement of drugs? I guess the United States doesn't have a meth problem? Like somehow meth is being produced in the states in large quantities?
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
For one, the entire course of history would have changed. Trump wouldn't be President. And if Mexico was a part of America, it wouldn't be poor and would likely be similar to the way Texas is right now, or just like any border state. I'm just saying the Drug Cartels would most likely be gone.
Posted by FrankLee 1 year ago
FrankLee
Annexing Mexico when we had the chance to? Wouldn't that have just resulted in Trump losing by more than 3 million voters? I would expect the GOP claiming more voter fraud from Democrats than what we had already seen.
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
Maybe we should have annexed Mexico when we had the chance to. It would've saved us a lot of trouble.
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
The fact is, it will reduce illegal immigration and drug trafficking by a lot. The obviously cannot solve all the problems, but it will reduce it and therefore make it easier to combat.
Posted by FrankLee 1 year ago
FrankLee
"The logical endpoint of this argument is that any attempt to defend the border is futile. The only alternative is if you meant defense should be increased on all platforms (land, sea and a"
--- How did you arrive at this endpoint as a logical response? It sounds as though only you have exhausted all possible means. What it does entail is that erecting a wall is a futile attempt though. But since you seem to support it, show me a wall that was impervious to invaders and I'll show you the ones that failed. Again, how did you reach that conclusion? There are plenty of countries that don't have walls and they don't have an immigration problem. What incentives are we providing that those countries aren't? Perhaps we should stop blaming immigrants and start looking internally at companies that employ illegals for low wages. But if you think that employing a defense platform that covers air, land, and sea is feasible then good luck bankrupting the country.
Posted by FrankLee 1 year ago
FrankLee
"The NPR article you cited states DT wanted to raise tariffs, which NPR speculated would increase the cost of the imported mexican goods to Americans enough to approach the price of the wall."

"In the tweet you linked to, Trump says if the US fronts the cost it would be reimbursed by Mexico, which, if true, is ultimately identical to Mexico paying."

--- An increase in tariff does not translate into Mexico paying for the wall. If anything I would be more concern about how much more money we would lose by imposing a higher tariffs due to a decrease in trade. The point of a tariff is to protect domestic goods from foreign competition. First of all good luck collecting on that tariff... How long would it take to collect the initial cost of the wall when adjusted for inflation in the future? Is it possible with maintenance and the cost of manning the walls? That said, how should the world respond to our demands of imposing a tariff to pay for our wall? Who's to say that the world wouldn't reciprocate and impose similar deals onto us? We as the largest consuming nation would suffer the most as we depend entirely on other nations to keep our economy going.

"This statement ignores the existence of millions of illegal immigrants in the US who have come from countries south of the US-Mexico border, and next to none by comparison from Canada."
--- No it doesn't. From ICE itself [https://www.usimmigration.com...] illegal immigrants will come in anyway possible. The wall is a joke. Even if it was to work in the south, you would have to make a wall in the north as well. Imagine the cost of that wall, let me guess, Canada will pay for it as well? Right... But whats next? Walls on our coastal borders as well? Are you going to say that illegals/trafficking doesn't come thru sea lanes? How will we make China pay for human trafficking? Good luck collecting from them as well.
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