The Instigator
greenlove
Pro (for)
Losing
39 Points
The Contender
PreacherFred
Con (against)
Winning
58 Points

Pro-Choice

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/27/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,914 times Debate No: 112
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (13)
Votes (31)

 

greenlove

Pro

Pro-choice is defined as an ethical view that believes woman should be allowed complete control over their pregnancies and reproductive rights. Woman should be allowed the right to have control over their body's, and although many pro-life supporters considers a fetus to be a human life that is not so. If a legal abortion has taken place then the fetus is not considered a legal human life.

In terms of religious ethics in Christianity the bible claims that a fetus is not equal to a life. The woman is considered a human life, and if she is murdered, then the murder will also be killed [then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth]. However is the fetus is 'murdered' then the man in charge of the death will only be fines [strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined] not an eye for eye, etc. so a fetus is not considered a life. Only will the child in question be considered a human life at birth, not at contraception.

"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth." Ex. 21:22-25 [From the New American Standard Bible]

There is the matter that if the woman is considered having an abortion then truthfully she would most likely not be a competent mother. The choice in a case such as that is to either abort the fetus, or to allow it to live in a poor environment with a incessant feeling of guilt on the child for living. In some cases people consider abortion because the fetus in question is the product of rape or incest.

In the case of incest the child could suffer from genetic mutations, and that could possibly ruin the child's whole or majority of their life. In the case of rape, the child would live it's life only being the product of fear, and violence, not a precious human life. The mother would most likely be ill tempered to the child, thus giving the child several mental issues later in life.

It has been said that fear and desperation drive humanity, and so a woman with child, whatever her logic of having an abortion would resort to a back alley abortion, if abortions were illegal. Another tragic scenario is that the mother would consider trying to have a miscarriage through the use of drugs, and the child would not miscarry, but be born with several mental and physical deformations.

Would you truthfully ask a unborn child to be born in spite of these several ramifications? Also the child would not only most likely have a sad state of being, but the mother could suffer from health complications because of birth, or mental implications of many kinds. If the mother were to suffer mental or physical implications, but the child were to be healthy in their physical being, some family or others close to the mother would resent the child. The child would still suffer from an inferiority complex, depression, etc. even if the mother died, or was no longer capable of taking care of the child. Also in another scenario: The child is put up for adoption, but is informed about the state of his birth-mother post birth would yet again suffer from complexes and mental issues. A broken soul can break a body.
PreacherFred

Con

Pro Life, while involving other subjects such as euthanasia, human cloning, etc. is used mostly in relation to abortion and fetal rights issues. I maintain that fetuses and embryos are, in fact, human beings and therefore have a right to life. Any action that destroys an embryo or fetus kills a human being and is ethically and morally wrong. This murder should not be mitigated by any perceived benefits to others such as ending the hardship of a woman with an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. Such anticipated benefits come at the expense of the life of another human being. Human life, in any shape or form should retain the same rights as any other life. In the case of a fetus, it should be afforded more protection since it is not yet at the stage where it can defend itself. Similarly, children are afforded more protection than adults.

Legal abortion denies the fetus due process protections that a criminal case requires before the imposition of the death penalty. Abortion is a form of infanticide! It is incomprehensible that a person may be pro-choice and against abortion at the same time. That would be like mixing oil with water.

The Bible makes no specific mention of abortion, although it does mention unborn life several times. For example, Luke 1:44 cites Elizabeth exclaiming to Mary: "Behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb (John the Baptist) leaped for joy." Jeremiah 1:4-5, retelling God's appointment of Jeremiah to the prophet-hood, says: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you." Such passages reveal the personhood of an embryo/fetus.

The Roman Catholic Church, as well as other Christian religions in conjunction with a majority of scientists believe that human life is sacred, and begins at conception and, therefore, abortion is the equivalent of murder. Hinduism teaches that a fetus is a living, conscious person deserving of protection. The Hindu believe that there are 16 Samskaarams or Sanskaar during the life of an individual (soul) which starts at pre-birth at Garbhadhaan (Conception). This would mean that the Hindu believe life to begin at conception.

Many disciplines of philosophy support Pro Life. An example is the natural law theory, which emphasizes the primacy of the right-to-life as being the most fundamental human right. Biologically speaking, the zygote created at fertilization possesses a unique genome of human DNA, a unique blood type, and all of the other essential biological manifestations of a living organism. This constitutes membership in the human specie and personhood whereby we could conclude that the deliberate harming of human embryos and fetuses is a form of genocide.

Abortion, therefore, in any form is murder!
Debate Round No. 1
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
After rereading the debate, I am a little disappointed that greenlove asserts that a fetus is not a human life, when a fetus is obviously a life form and obviously human as opposed to some other type of life like a monkey or a bacterium. I personally make my pro-choice arguments based on personhood instead, to escape the unavoidable logical fallacy involved in saying that a fetus/embryo is not a human life. Preacherfred, you say that a genome and blood type make us human and therefore give us personhood, but I don't see that it does. A genome and blood type and all that make us human beings, but what makes us people is something different. Monkeys and bacteria have genomes and blood types, but they are not people. If you were asked "what makes you a person", I think you would be more inclined to talk about your experiences, feelings, values, and thoughts; I don't think you would answer "I have a human genome and blood type A and two arms two legs and a head". I think the flaws I identified could have been smoothed out in a multi-round argument. With that said, preacherfred's arguments did a better job at delving into the pure ethics of the situation, while greenlove's arguments doted around in the (less essential) ramifications of illegalizing abortion. I like the former approach better, because you can only solve an ethical dillema like this by getting right into the heart of it. My vote goes for preacherfred.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
it seems I am unable to vote for both... interesting. Apparently you can keep switching your vote back and forth an unlimited number of times, but you can't vote for both... news to me.
Posted by Rob1Billion 9 years ago
Rob1Billion
Both arguments are equally as relevent, in my opinion. More than one round would have allowed a clearer winner... I'll vote for both.
Posted by Mdal 9 years ago
Mdal
I would like to start by saying that I enjoy Preacher Fred's clear and concise arguments, and all in all for a 1 shot argument on both sides this was enjoyable to read.

The only reason why I ended up voting against you PreacherFred was because of your definition of human in your 2nd to last paragraph:
"Biologically speaking, the zygote created at fertilization possesses a unique genome of human DNA, a unique blood type, and all of the other essential biological manifestations of a living organism."

This definition just doesn't stand up, a recently dead person contains all of the same characteristics...yet they aren't people are they?
I feel like your reliance on the person hood of the fetus was (as it always is in this debate) important and I would simply have enjoyed a stronger definition of life which supports this point.

So for me it was the shaky definition of life before birth vs the danger of a living women getting dangerous abortions in a back alley, or giving birth in a very dangerous situation (such as malformed babies which can harm the women during birth). In the end I vote for sure thing of a living women, I KNOW she is alive but am not yet convinced of the person hood of the fetus.

Keep it up the both of you, this was an enjoyable read
-Mdal
Posted by willact723 9 years ago
willact723
Had to vote for Pro-Choice. I disagree with the comments that you can be personally pro-life and not be pro-choice in voting. I think that is an ignorant comment. I am personally against abortion, but most don't understand that if Roe v. Wade was overturned, it would return control to the states. This doesn't sound like a bad idea, except for the fact that some states have laws that ban abortion in ALL conditions. It is nice to think that everyone state would ban abortion except in the case of rape or incest, but that is not how everyone feels. If the states had control for things like abortion, we would run into the issue of where people would not want to live in a state because their ideas of policy would always be in the minority. A ardent liberal shouldn't have to not live in Alabama because they may be in the minority, so therefore they would probably disagree with most all political policies. That is completely ridiculous. We are one nation under God, indivisible. Not 50 country's under one flag.
Posted by easy2know 9 years ago
easy2know
Greenlove your argument was very well put, and most understand the "many" different scenarios that take place in the "many" unwanted pregnancy's. Fred explained very well why in the very beginning of life (conception) that the second the fetus begins development it "is" life in its infancy. Infancy: 1 : early childhood 2 : a beginning or early period of existence 3 : the legal status of an infant Infant: 1 : a child in the first period of life 2 : a person who is not of full age : minor. The reason for the definitions was just to point out even Merriam Webster's cannot give any specific age when life begins, yet in both infancy and infant say early period of existence, first period of life. As I noticed in your profile you are against the death penalty as you I believe in saving souls or life, even if it means one at a time. This issue is so complex and controversial, and while it takes two to conceive, and as Phil said below most that are for abortions are the very ones eluding the responsibility's of their own actions. In my life time alone most of the women I knew who had abortions tell me it has and still is the most traumatic thing they have ever done, and is forever haunting them on the what ifs..? They live each day wondering if they did the right thing, and all (or most) concluded it was wrong to end a life, especially when it involved "another" life. I know in today's times baby's are having baby's (sorta speak), but the message our society sends needs revamping, parents need to teach abstinence not hand out condoms or contraceptives. If someone wanted to commit suicide would we hand them a bullet..? Just hope you understand how so "precious" life is to many of us, including "yours"..:o)
Posted by Retrospace18 9 years ago
Retrospace18
I love the pushes in scripture.Just brings more truth to ..

"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."

William Shakespeare
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
Thanks Phil. I waited until I thought I would have enough time to devote to it. Seems, though, that this is a one round debate and it is now in the voting period. Surprised me.
Posted by Phil 9 years ago
Phil
Hey Fred,

I knew you were going to accept the challenge for this debate. I look forward to the arguments and comments. I think this one might get heated. Hopefully the name-calling won't rear it's ugly head.

Phil
Posted by iamsano 9 years ago
iamsano
Kind of close but for me abortion might be allowed if the mother's life is in danger and only in the first trimester because at that time the babe is not formed.. you cant just say that it should allowed because of pro choice.. the choice should be based on valid reasons.
good debate...
I go for PreacherFred in this debate.. thanks
31 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by PreacherFred 8 years ago
PreacherFred
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Vote Placed by rockytopsteph 9 years ago
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