The Instigator
Slifer893
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Macedon2003
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Project Based Learning vs. Work Based Learning

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/10/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 312 times Debate No: 91044
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Slifer893

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate. I hope that we will have a great debate with excellent points.
Before we begin, we will assume the following:
1) Projects are defined as Medium-Long term projects which are worked in groups and/or independently. Examples of these are Essays, independent research projects, Service projects, Design/construction. All project will have opportunities for re submissions.
2) Work will be defined as short term work which is completed over a time period ranging from 15 minutes to 40 minutes. Examples of these are definitions, Worksheets, AP level 2 questions, etc.
3) A work based classroom will have a minimum of 2+ assignments per class per week. A project based classroom will have 2-4 grades per class per quarter.
4) Each teacher has 6 classes with 24 students each. (Please note that the numbers used are arbitrary.)

My initiating points are:
1) A project based class is much less stressful on the students.
2) A project based class is much more engaging and allows the student to pace their learning and distribute/manage workloads.
3) Project based learning teaches allows students to have more agency.
As a reminder:
The first round will be strictly for opening statements.
The second round will be rebuttals.
The third round will be for counter-rebuttals.
The fourth round will be for closing statements.
Macedon2003

Con

Well, even though you do make good points, from my experience, many long-term projects really cause a lot of problems. Here, let me explain:
1. Children these days really don't care about their work. A lot of the time, one hard working student pairs up with a bunch of people who don't care about the Quality of life they will face in the future. This puts a lot of pressure on the person and just doesn't get it done.

2. Many of the hardworking students prefer doing these little essays and dioramas from my experience. Especially me, I definitely prefer working with a 1 partner minimum. So you can't really blame them for not successfully completing the project.

3. Stress. Stress plays an Important role to successfully completing a project. If one person is not on board, then the whole base is ruined. Plus, many people may have other ideas that they may want to do. And if their idea isn't chosen, they may feel angry or left out. This is where stress comes in.

So I think I have made my point pretty clearly.
Debate Round No. 1
Slifer893

Pro

Once again I would like to thank you for accepting this debate.
"1. Children these days really don't care about their work. A lot of the time, one hard working student pairs up with a bunch of people who don't care about the Quality of life they will face in the future."
If I am understanding this correctly, a single hardworking student will work on a group project while the other slack off. I can witness to this, but here is the catch: The same problem remains in the work based class. In a class with definitions and worksheets, there is still a gap between the lazy students and the hardworking ones. If this gap is transitioned to a group work and project based class, the students who work hard may be able to learn the skills of charisma and leadership needed to motivate and organize the one who are not doing work. On the other hand, the students who are not doing work can become inspired by the hardworking student and learn from them. They can learn their work ethic, problem solving skills, reasons for enjoying the subject, etc. In a work based class, the effort gap still remains, but if there is a group/project based class, the gap can be reduced, even sealed.

"2. Many of the hardworking students prefer doing these little essays and dioramas from my experience. Especially me, I definitely prefer working with a 1 partner minimum. So you can't really blame them for not successfully completing the project."

I am not sure that I understand this clearly, may I ask of an elaboration?

"3. Stress. Stress plays an Important role to successfully completing a project. If one person is not on board, then the whole base is ruined. Plus, many people may have other ideas that they may want to do. And if their idea isn't chosen, they may feel angry or left out. This is where stress comes in."
I would like to ask, how is the stress created in a project based class as opposed to a work based class. I firmly believe that the effect would the quite the opposite. The reason for this is that with a project, the workload can be managed a distributed at the discretion of the student. Projects are all about self motivation and the desire to learn.

There are also some other points that I wanted to put in my opening statements but left out to start out small.
1) Projects help us use information. A work based classroom does not allow information to be applied or discovered by the student's desire to learn. Instead the information is taught and then reinforced by worksheets rather than empowering the student to take control of their learning.
2) A project based class puts less stress on the instructor. A work based class sees the instructor grading 288 assignments per week.(See opening statements) A teacher cannot provide meaningful feedback on an assignment if there are 287 more to grade after it. The teacher does not have the time to do so.
3) Project based learning allows us to learn the key 21st century skills. Project learning revolves around the student taking control of their learning to be able to manage the work in a method which suits them the best and collaborate. Projects can teach collaboration, imagination, critical thinking, problem solving.
Macedon2003

Con

OK. I SEE THAT ALL MY STATEMENTS HAVE FAILED. THIS IS MY FIRST DEBATE SOOOO, WOW. I'M BLOWN AWAY. WHY DID I DO THIS. You definitely did your homework. WHAT DO I DO KNOW I DEFINETLY LOST. I WAS FEELING PRETTY GOOD TODAY UNTIL THIS. YOU REALLY MUST BE WELL EXPERIENCED. BUT I HAVE TO TRY.

1. It's not that easy that you can wave a wand and influence people to better themselves. They must be taught and influenced in such a way that they will just SUDDENLY care about learning. Plus, it gets harder because when you influence one person and share ideas, the other person must agree to learn a new activity that may not represent their values.

2. The explanation I have to back up my 2nd claim is that it is proven that many people, especially hard working people, hate such kind of representation of this setup. I have many people talk to me about the stress of having idiotical fools in their groups and that they have to do everything. I'm representing a whole chunk of people from my school and outside of it So this is the best I can do with this one

3. How can the workload be balanced if no one besides one person? So it will drive stress and when the hard working person says something they either don't care or they will lash out at you. This is very much proven in many schools considering a number of idiots that attend school to dance, play basketball or play around.
Debate Round No. 2
Slifer893

Pro

This round is for counter-rebuttals where you will defend against the statements made in the 2nd round.
This is actually my second debate that I am trying out. Debates are healthy for getting a good sense of logic and values so it feels like a nice exercise. :)
" It's not that easy that you can wave a wand and influence people to better themselves."
Well...yes. There is not magic wand to wave.

" They must be taught and influenced in such a way that they will just SUDDENLY care about learning. "
People watch what you do more than what you say. In a group, the hardworking students will be able to inspire the lesser students. Even if the lesser students are not motivated and inspired, the superior student will learn how to not inspire people which is a key component of leadership skills.

" Plus, it gets harder because when you influence one person and share ideas, the other person must agree to learn a new activity that may not represent their values."
Learning how to do something you do not enjoy is a key lesson. In addition, a person who may resent a certain activity might learn about a part of the subject material that they become fond of. I also question your use of "values." I feel that "interests" would be a better term.

"The explanation I have to back up my 2nd claim is that it is proven that many people, especially hard working people, hate such kind of representation of this setup. I have many people talk to me about the stress of having idiotical fools in their groups and that they have to do everything."
I have stated the potential of mixing the intelligent students with the lesser students. A change of heart is very much possible and I would be the first to defend that idea. I can personally vouch for your claim, but this is simply a challenge to overcome.

" How can the workload be balanced if no one besides one person? So it will drive stress and when the hard working person says something they either don't care or they will lash out at you. This is very much proven in many schools considering a number of idiots that attend school to dance, play basketball or play around."
What I was referring to was the ability to distribute the work over time. On a worksheet you have one night to complete a low level assignment. On a project you have a large workload which the student is free to distribute and partition as they wish.

Sidenote: Would it be fine with you if you discussed some of the benefits of work-based learning?
Macedon2003

Con

After this, I think I lost this one. But, I will resist your attacks anyways. Time for my statements.

1. I can believe the statements that you have said. But, I see no proof of your accusations. My statements have been proven time and time again. May I ask of some proof?

2. One way that work based learning is positive is because especially in tech and STEM, they are introduced to tech and can solve real life based problems using critical thinking skills.

3. Using THESE SKILLS, they can apply for authentic careers and have more opportunity to get those jobs.

4. It also supplies the demand for high Quality working people for big careers such as engineering and programming.

This is all I can say. For more info, visit, http://www.ncpublicschools.org...
Debate Round No. 3
Slifer893

Pro

Thank you for having this debate with me. Some good points have been raised to my attention.
1) I will assume that you are referring to the topic of the work being placed upon a single student. This claim is correct and my rebuttal to the claim is based upon logic, a thought experiment if you prefer. You may say that it is all hypothetical, however in my defense I say that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence .

2 and 3)
I believe that you misunderstood my original definitions.(See round 1)
"1) Projects are defined as Medium-Long term projects which are worked in groups and/or independently. Examples of these are Essays, independent research projects, Service projects, Design/construction. All project will have opportunities for re submissions.
2) Work will be defined as short term work which is completed over a time period ranging from 15 minutes to 40 minutes. Examples of these are definitions, Worksheets, AP level 2 questions, etc."
The topic of the debate is how work in a standard classroom is assigned/managed. You mistook your position for the support of vocational classes which is a fine initiative. The claims you have made are therefore irrelevant to the topic of the debate. If you wish to make your intended claims in the last section, please do so freely.
For future notes, if the instigator of the debate leaves certain notes, conditions, frameworks, or definitions in the 1st round, it is a good idea to check them.

Once again, thank you for having this debate with me. It is my honor. Just practice logic and take a position on a clear issue and I am sure you will be a great debater on Debate.org.
Macedon2003

Con

Oh my, I've been wronged again. You know what they say, there's never beginners luck in this. And thanks, I hope you the best wishes also.It is time for the people to decide which side they choose. And may the best man win! Good luck!
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by CleaverBeaver 6 months ago
CleaverBeaver
I would just like to say that both of you conducted yourselves well and that this was one of the most polite and dignified debate I have seen so far. Good luck in your future debates.
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