The Instigator
Rockylightning
Con (against)
Winning
29 Points
The Contender
BellumQuodPacis
Pro (for)
Losing
10 Points

Promoting world wide democratic principles should be a higher priority than promoting sovereignty.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/13/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 572 times Debate No: 11421
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (6)

 

Rockylightning

Con

THIS IS A ROUND 2 DEBATE!

Definitions: Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a territory.
Democratic Principles: Democracy is a political government carried out either directly by the people (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people (Representative democracy). Therefore democratic principles are defined as principles of a democratic government.

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1. Sovereignty is more important than democracy
Let me use a few examples, 1930's, Germany. Germany was in an extreme economic depression, people were looking for jobs, their currency was worth close to nothing. This was fixed when Hitler took over the country. If he had not, the country might have not survived for long. (I DO NOT agree with what Hitler did! This is just trying to prove my point!)

2. A democratic government is a bonus
Yes, here in America we are enjoying the benefits of a democratic government. But this government is a bonus. Example: Lets say country X is an unorganized group of cities and towns after a great war, no governing body, no order what so ever. Eventually sovereignty in the form of monarchy replaces this chaos. It may not be perfect, but it's at least under control! Maybe later after Country X has some order that you could insert democratic principles, but not at this point. My point is, would you rather have no government, or a government that didn't let you vote but kept you safe from invading armies.

I'll expand on these points, and bring in new points in my next speech.
I await my opponent's rebuttals.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

I thank my opponent for this debate and I wish him the best of luck during the duration of this tournament.

Refutation one:

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1. Sovereignty is more important than democracy
Let me use a few examples, 1930's, Germany. Germany was in an extreme economic depression, people were looking for jobs, their currency was worth close to nothing. This was fixed when Hitler took over the country. If he had not, the country might have not survived for long. (I DO NOT agree with what Hitler did! This is just trying to prove my point!)
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This is true, Germany was in a bad recession at the time and a sovereign leader was in power, however, here is what we all must realize. Hitler when coming into power, created more jobs and cut unemployment by opening a large number of arms manufacturing plants. Which subsequently lead to the power rushing to Adolf's head and instigating the holocaust and World War II. However, had that German government been a democracy, either representative or direct, than there could have been a check on his power, possibly preventing his actions. So while you believe Hitler's achievements in the economy have helped Germany, and that because he is a sovereign leader that this proves your point, (not to be completely rude) but you are wrong. Hitler is just a fine example of why there SHOULD be democratic principles worldwide, so that no more tyrannous activities can occur. The system of checks and balances which democratic ideals create are there to ensure a leader cannot get out of hand.

Refutation two:

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2. A democratic government is a bonus
Yes, here in America we are enjoying the benefits of a democratic government. But this government is a bonus. Example: Lets say country X is an unorganized group of cities and towns after a great war, no governing body, no order what so ever. Eventually sovereignty in the form of monarchy replaces this chaos. It may not be perfect, but it's at least under control! Maybe later after Country X has some order that you could insert democratic principles, but not at this point. My point is, would you rather have no government, or a government that didn't let you vote but kept you safe from invading armies.
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Counter-Example:
If country X just came out of a great war, and is now just a bunch of unorganized cities and towns, this means they lost. A country just doesn't lose its organization over night due to nothing. Because they lost, their going to belong to the country that beat them. So for one, not only is the example unrealistic, meaning country X would not just be left behind once being defeated, but also that it would not immediately install a monarchic government from the get-go. Who is to say that they would not install a democratic government. Secondly, Democracy is certainly not a bonus, but a primary form of government. How else would have the United States been formed? The House of Legislators, was the body that allowed a president to come about when it was first established therefore, not being monarchic.

I await any further argumentation from my opponent to continue to refute.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
Rockylightning

Con

Note: Before I begin I would like to point out that my opponent has 0 points. He has not stated any reasons supporting his case except his refutations.

Now to begin with refutations

1. \\\opening a large number of arms manufacturing plants. Which subsequently lead to the power rushing to Adolf's head and instigating the holocaust and World War II. However, had that German government been a democracy, either representative or direct, than there could have been a check on his power, possibly preventing his actions. So while you believe Hitler's achievements in the economy have helped Germany, and that because he is a sovereign leader that this proves your point, (not to be completely rude) but you are wrong. Hitler is just a fine example of why there SHOULD be democratic principles worldwide, so that no more tyrannous activities can occur. The system of checks and balances which democratic ideals create are there to ensure a leader cannot get out of hand.//

I do see where you are coming from, but Hitler is not the only example. For example, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Louis XIV, the list goes on and on. Julius Caesar and Alexander the great weren't the nicest leaders around, but at least they kept the common person safe from invading armies! Here's an analogy, if a country is a wall around you, and a democratic country is a wall that lets you choose it's defender. Which would you rather have, a wall or no wall. Simple.

2. \\\A country just doesn't lose its organization over night due to nothing. Because they lost, their going to belong to the country that beat them. So for one, not only is the example unrealistic, meaning country X would not just be left behind once being defeated, but also that it would not immediately install a monarchic government from the get-go.///

You misinterpreted my argument. What I was trying to say was that the country met some sort of doom and was all disorganized and loose, then wouldn't it be better to have a government protecting you than no government at all? (Use the wall analogy again)

Conclusion: Having a government (even a non democratic one) is better than having no government at all.
If the US sank into Chaos tomorrow, answer me this, would you rather have no government and have complete chaos and madness, or have a monarchy and at least have some bit of order? Your choice...

I urge a con vote

Thank you
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

BellumQuodPacis forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Rockylightning

Con

Since my opponent has forfeited his round I restate my arguments.
BellumQuodPacis

Pro

Considering the forfeits, I assume i forfeit the tournament. Pity, really.

Im saddened. But good luck to Rocky. Kick butt. See ya man!

:D

(I got grounded and no comp was allowed)
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
thanks!
Posted by BellumQuodPacis 6 years ago
BellumQuodPacis
Ugh sorry rocky. I got grounded and banned from the computer. Good job. Good luck to you on the tournament.
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
I hate this topic with all my guts, but I would like to stay in the tournament
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Blank 6 years ago
Blank
RockylightningBellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by whatisx 6 years ago
whatisx
RockylightningBellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by headphonegut 6 years ago
headphonegut
RockylightningBellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
RockylightningBellumQuodPacisTied
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Vote Placed by BellumQuodPacis 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by twin 6 years ago
twin
RockylightningBellumQuodPacisTied
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