The Instigator
Lucassamson
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Korede
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Prophet muhammad [s.aw] raped aisha

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/19/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,741 times Debate No: 52905
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

Lucassamson

Con

If a rapist is said to be a prophet of God,that is nothing but IRONY.it is a widespread rumour that prophet muhammad[s.a.w] is a terrorist,which i believe he is not.

*.The pro must be able to tell us how the prophet was a rapist.

*the pro's points should be void of hatred and hypocrisy,but with reasonable points.

*no fallacy of begging the question

*straw man fallacy is welcomed.

*FIRST ROUND IS ACCEPTANCE.

Looking forward to an interesting argument and voting should be unbias nor sentimental
Korede

Pro

I am of the opinion that Muhammed indeed raped Aisha according the evidence from the Hadith..but firstly, I will like to give a definition of rape and who rapist is.

1. DEFINITION OF THE WORD "RAPE"
Rape the offense of forcing a person, esp a woman, to submit to sexual intercourse against that person's will

2. DEFINITION OF THE WORD "RAPIST"
The person who unlawful compelling another person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

According to Islam's second Holy book called the Hadith, we read CLEARLY of how Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old girl against her consent. We read from the Hadith

Narrated 'Aisha:that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

[Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64]

I also have an evidence that Aisha' father was not also in agreement with the marriage in the first place.
Debate Round No. 1
Lucassamson

Con

I thought it was written in capital letters above that "FIRST ROUND IS ACCEPTANCE".firstly,my opponent failed to obey one of the rules of this debate.

First of all,it is important to know:,
Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was.
http://www.answering-christianity.com...
1-The Bible's Prophets, and even Roman Emperors married girls as young as 8![ 1]
2-Mary got pregnant between the ages of 11 and 14.
3-The minimum age for marriage in the US-State o fDelaware in year 1880 was 7
4-According to the Jewish Talmud, Prophet Moses and his followers had sex with girls as young as 3 years old.

The prophet himself was against rape and murder.
1.http://www.systemoflife.com...

2.http://www.answering-christianity.com...

however,i should not forget to define rape and who is a rapist.

RAPE[ reyp ]
noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person
http://m.dictionary.com...

RAPIST
Noun1.rapist- someone who forces another to have sexual intercourse
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

i will like the PRO to show us
1.where aisha was forced to be sexed
2.where marrying a 9year old means rape
3.the marriage age limit in prophet muhammad's[s.a.w] era.

*If a male or female is being raped,he or she should be the one to report the rape,DID AISHA REPORT BEING RAPED?

*The PRO quoted an hadith where Rape nor force was not written,if the prophet truly raped aisha,WHAT WAS THE PUNISHMENT FOR RAPE AND WHY WAS HE NOT PUNISHED?

Joseph the husband of mary[mother of jesus] was 90years when he married mary who was around 12-14years.WAS HE A RAPIST TOO?
http://wiki.answers.com...
http://www.newadvent.org...

I think the pro is making a great mistake here by arguing for the topic,"THE PROPHET MARRIED AN UNDER AGED"[which i can deal with] instead of showing us how "PROPHET MUHAMMED[S.A.W] WAS A RAPIST"

the prophet's was married to aisha,LEGALLY!the marriage was more than 1,400years ago,and i will give videos of little girls giving birth in this our century
1.http://m.youtube.com...
2.http://m.youtube.com...
3.http://m.youtube.com...
http://m.youtube.com....

That prophet muhammed[s.a.w] raped aisha is baseless,factless,heresay,hypocritic,due to hatred,a lie,an untrue invention of his enemies,intentional defamation of character!

I AWAIT THE PRO TO TELL US HOW THE PROPHET RAPED AISHA AND HOW AISHA REPORTED SHE WAS RAPED.

This is a friendly debate,regardless of your view about the topic,don't vote biasly nor sentimentally.....THANKS!
Korede

Pro

First and foremost, I have given the definition of who a rapist is and established from the Hadith how Muhammed had sex with a 9 year old girl without her consent.

THE CON ASKED THREE QUESTIONS I WILL LIKE TO RESPOND TO IN MY REPLY:

The questions are

------------------
1.where aisha was forced to be sexed
2.where marrying a 9year old means rape
3.the marriage age limit in prophet muhammad's[s.a.w] era.
------------------

I am glad that the Instigator never objected that Muhammed had sex with Aisha at a tender age, but he denied the fact that Aisha's father was not happy about giving out his little girl to Muhammed and here is the evidence that debunks such claim.

Here we read from the Hadith again, Islam's second holy book:

Narrated 'Ursa:The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
[Sahih Bukhari Vol 7. Number 18]

---------------------------
PLEASE NOTE "Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother."
---------------------------
This CLEARLY shows that Aisha's father was reluctant to give out her precious jewel, but since Muhammed made the demand, there was nothing he could do about it.

To further answer the instigator's question, Aisha was still a very young and tender girl when she was taken away into Muhmmed's house, we have records from the Hadith that she was still playing with a DOLL, we read from the Hadith again:

---------------------------
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

[Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151]
---------------------------

--------------------------
Please NOTE: Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet.
---------------------------

NOTE AGAIN:
-----------------------------
(The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.)
-----------------------------

This is an evidence from the Islamic literature that indicates that Aisha had not even gotten to the age of PUBERTY when age was taken unto the house of Muhammed for sexual violation.

This clearly shows that Aisha was a tender child and could not RESIST any sexual advances from Muhammed during the consummation!

What do you expect Aisha to have done when Muhammed was about having sex with her at a very tender age? of course she could not resist the 54 year old man in strength.

Let us consider this for a moment, will a child molester be justified for raping or having sex with a child just because the child could not resist him in the first place? If this kind of act is discovered in this modern world, Muhammed will be guilty of RAPE and child molestation.

IRRELEVANT QUOTATION
I am surprised to see the Con quoting the Bible as a reference in this kind of debate when in reality the Bible has nothing to say about Muhammed's moral life, this indeed shows that the Con has no prove for this subject matter and thereby looking for a way to deviate from the issue at at hand. This also shows a lack of understanding of the subject matter and violate the rules of the debate by going off point

Why should the Con give reference to youtube videos when he ought to present his evidence right here? this clearly shows
that he has no evidence for his claims. Again, I quoted the Hadith that clearly shows how Aisha was said to be a little girl, when she was taken to Muhammed's house, why cant the Cons deny this reference as False?

Lastly, the Con said that Alisha's parent WILLFULLY gave Aisha to Muhammed as a wife, can he please provide an evidence for this?
Debate Round No. 2
Lucassamson

Con

Before I proceed,I will like to call the attention of the readers to bad conducts exhibited by the pro.

*the first round is for acceptance which I wrote in capital letters but the pro started giving his points hence not complying with the rules of the debate.

*the pro also accused me of quoting the christians' bible which I never did.if the pro really thinks I quoted the bible,let him give the verse[s] and chapter[s] I quoted.[I made mention of jewish talmud which is not the bible].

*the pro also categorized my reference to youtube videos as irrelevant quotations.well,I used those videos to buttress my points and to establish that the fact that a man slept with a 9year old cannot just be tagged "rape".and if the pro is not aware,it is advisable to use reliable sources and links in this type of debate.

*the pro instead of making rebuttals against my points,he chose to make false accusations of things I never did and also made a mistake of categorizing my reference to youtube videos as "IRRELEVANT QUOTATIONS" whereas those references are reliable sources and links not "QUOTATIONS"

Not to deviate from the main topic,I will like to use this round to make rebuttals against my opponent's points/claims and also establish the fact that prophet muhammad[s.a.w] never raped aisha.
............................................................
POINT 1:the pro wrote:
---------------------------
PLEASE NOTE "Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother."
---------------------------
This CLEARLY shows that Aisha's father was reluctant to give out her precious jewel, but since Muhammed made the demand, there was nothing he could do about it.

REBUTTAL:
The pro wanted us to note the words of aisha's father but seems not to be concerned about the response of the prophet.this was the response of the prophet:
//The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."//

Here the prophet[with that reply] gave a response to Aisha's father and also
Gave her father a reason why he can marry his daughter lawfully.

After the response given by the prophet,the was no record of Aisha's father opposing the prophet's marriage to Aisha.

Furthermore,am beginning to think the pro does not really understand this topic and he seems to be arguing for under age sex rather than Aisha being raped.when the father of a lady does not give consent to a marriage,we can't just jump to the conclusion that she was raped.

If the father does not give his consent to the marriage and we jump to the conclusion that she was raped,the following questions need to be answered:

#.WHERE WAS AISHA RAPED?
#.HOW DID SHE GET TO WHERE SHE WAS RAPED?
#.WHERE WAS HER FATHER WHEN SHE WAS RAPED?
#.WHEN A 9YR OLD GIRL WAS RAPED,WHAT ACTION WAS TAKEN BY HER FATHER?

To further buttress my point,the pro wants us to believe that since the father does not give his consent,we should jump to the conclusion that she was raped,dating back from previous centuries,we have heard and read of different stories whereby lovers marry against the consent of their parents.an example is cited below:
http://www.maniacworld.com...

We have so many relationship today not even marriage and sexual intercourse occurs without the consent of either one of the parents of the male or female,THEN SHOULD WE CALL THOSE RELATIONSHIP RAPE??

To round up my first round of rebutall,that the father of the lady does not give his consent does not necessarily means rape.when a case of rape occurs,the consent of the lady in question is needed not the father as the father is not the person in question.
.........................................................
POINT 2:the pro wrote:

--------------------------
Please NOTE: Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet.

REBUTTAL:
The pro wants us to note the narration of Aisha and I also want readers to note the word "USED".


---------------------------
USED:
Main Entry:used to
Pronunciation:\"y"sd. sometimes"y"z pronunc attoFunction:adverb
Etymology: fr. the verb phrase used to,fr.used,past of2use to,function word normally indicating that the following verb is an infinitive
dial: formerly, once

http://www.merriam-webster.com....

The words my opponent wants us to note signify that "AISHA WAS NARRATING WHAT SHE USED TO DO[playing with dolls]".

Furthermore,the words my opponent wants us to note shows that Aisha remembers what she used to do when she was young.now,some questions arise,for example:

#.WHICH IS EASIER TO REMEMBER,RAPE OR PLAYING WITH DOLLS?
#.WHY DIDN'T AISHA REPORT BEING RAPED?

If aisha was raped,we should be seeing something like this in the hadiths:
Narrated aisha:the prophet raped me when I was nine,OR:

Narrated aisha:the prophet had sex with me without my consent.

BUT WE FIND NONE OF THOSE REPORTS IN THE HADITH!!

To explain further,if Aisha can vividly remember playing with dolls then she should be able to report being raped by the prophet whereas she never said she was raped.

The pro makes me to wonder why someone will cry for another person's headache.if aisha never complained of being raped,why should the pro accuse the prophet of raping aisha when no single record shows the prophet raped her.

Lest I forget,I will like to inform the pro to understand a topic before he ventures in to support it as the pro was busy arguing for under aged marriage[which we can discuss in another debate] instead of showing us how the prophet raped aisha according to the definition used to describe rape.

Moreover,in my own opinion,it is easier to remember being raped [resulting from physical force,threatening,coercion,use of any form of power] than to remember playing with dolls.

In conclusion,with the use of reliable sources,links,good conduct,rebuttals;I think I have proved that the prophet never raped aisha.

There is no compulsion in embracing the idea of a man and we not embracing his idea does not mean we tarnish his good image

I still insist that the widespread rumour that "PROPHET MUHAMMAD[s.a.w] raped Aisha is a factless and baseless insinuation resulting from hypocrisy.arch-rivalry,intentional defamation of character,opposition,hatred etc.whereas no single record shows that the islamic prophet [muhammad s.a.w] raped his beloved wife,AISHA.
Korede

Pro

This debate have been interesting so far and I believe that many will learn from the exegesis here.

REBUTTING CON'S ARGUMENT.

Number 1.

I am going to start off this debate by rebutting Con's argument which appears to fall short of the discussion on ground, thereafter, I will present my last point on the discuss and end it with summary.

The Con in the third round said and I quote:
-------------------------------------------------
*the pro also accused me of quoting the christians' bible which I never did.if the pro really thinks I quoted the bible,let him give the verse[s] and chapter[s] I quoted.[I made mention of jewish talmud which is not the bible].
-------------------------------------------------

I guess he forget when he said this in round 2,

-------------------------------------------------
1-The Bible's Prophets, and even Roman Emperors married girls as young as 8![ 1]
2-Mary got pregnant between the ages of 11 and 14.
-------------------------------------------------

Is Mary not a biblical Character? why giving an example of Mary when e talking about Aisha and Muhammed?

Number 2.

The Con said again:

-------------------------------------
*the pro instead of making rebuttals against my points,he chose to make false accusations of things I never did and also made a mistake of categorizing my reference to youtube videos as "IRRELEVANT QUOTATIONS" whereas those references are reliable sources and links not "QUOTATIONS"
-------------------------------------

How on earth will the Con accuse me of not providing evidences when I indeed gave several reference from the Islamic literature? and I am still going to give more in this last round. Instead of splashing this debate with youtube link, you can simply summarize what the major point is and give the reference, that is how to reference in a debate.

NUMBER 3.

Again, it seems the Con does not really understand the subject at hand, I was shocked when he was referring to ADULT INDEPENDENT DECISION and comparing with the relationship between a 54 yr old Muhammed and the 9 old Aisha, he explains below:

------------------------------------
We have so many relationship today not even marriage and sexual intercourse occurs without the consent of either one of the parents of the male or female,THEN SHOULD WE CALL THOSE RELATIONSHIP RAPE??
------------------------------------

If you care to know, this is the relationship between ADULT who are OLD ENOUGH to take decisions, WHAT SEXUAL DECISION CAN AISHA TAKE AT THE AGE OF 6 or 9?

There are lots of his points I can on and on debunking, but, I have to give room for more evidence I have to show in this debate.

MY EVIDENCES.

NUMBER 1[USE OF LOGIC]

I can see the Con is insisting the just because the word "RAPED" was not used indicated that Aisha was not raped. I am going to site two references from the Hadith, Islam second most Holy book, that this ideology is false.

We read:

----------------------------------
Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (part of the war booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)? When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him for he deserves more than that from the Khumus.

[SAHIH BUKHARI - VOLUME 5, Number 637]
----------------------------------

Now, will a slave WILLFULLY GIVE herself to her captor for sexual intercourse, what do you call that not RAPE? Now are we going to conck6de that just because the word "RAPE" was not mentioned means that it was not RAPE?

ANOTHER REFERENCE

We read again:

-------------------------------
Abu Sirma said to Abu Said al Khudri: "O Abu Said, did you hear Allah's messenger mentioning about al-azl (coitus interruptus)?" He said, "Yes", and added: "We went out with Allah's messenger on the expedition to the Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl" (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: "We are doing an act whereas Allah's messenger is amongst us; why not ask him?" So we asked Allah's messenger and he said: "It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born".

[SAHIH MUSLIM, VOLUME 2, Number 3371]

It is CLEAR from this Hadith t this women were RAPED, yet are we going to conclude that they weren't RAPED just because the word rape not written in here?

The interesting thing here is that while they were doing it, Muhammed did not object to it, he allowed them to do it because he never had a problem with it in the first place.

NUMBER 2 [DID AISHA CONSENT TO THE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE?]

Another thing that the she said was that, if Aisha did not consent the sexual intercourse, she would have mentioned it and state it as well, but of course, this shows the ignorance of the Con about Islamic history and practices.

We read from their sources again

-------------------------------------------
"The scholars are unanimously agreed that a father may marry off his young daughter without consulting her. The Messenger of Allaah married "Aa"ishah bint Abi Bakr when she was young, six or seven years old, when her father married her to him." - Is it acceptable to marry a girl who has not yet started
her menses? -

Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 12708, Ibn "Abd al-Barr, Al-Istidhkaar, 16/49-50:
-------------------------------------------

3. FINALLY [AISHA'S TESTIMONY]

Please read what the young girl had to say about the whole issue?

----------------------------------
Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
----------------------------------

[Sahih Muslim Bk 8: Number 3311]

Against all the evidences presented here, is it still justifying to say that Muhammed did not RAPE Aisha when her consent wasn't sought after in the whole scene, this last Hadith furthers shows that the little girl was not even aware of what was planned about her life.

Let us stop these evil men from raping our Children in the name of religion, let us also stop supporting the wicked act of raping little girls and taking advantage of their innocence just as Muhammed did to Aisha.

------------------------------
QUESTIONS FOR THE READERS
------------------------------

1. Where is the evidence that Aisha consented to the sexual act between herself and Muhammed?

2. Where is it documented in the Hadith that Aisha's father consented to giving his little girl Muhammed?

3. What do you call a situation when a person consent was not sought after before engaging such in sexual intercourse?

I rest my pen..
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by AbuJarir 11 months ago
AbuJarir
Fun fact #1 Muhammad(SAAWS) didn't have a single child from Aisha(RA) only Khadijah(RA)
Posted by Massive 2 years ago
Massive
Through Out The Debates I found Lucassamson is able to explain the argument and topic better, and also have more logic ground on answering every reply.
Thanks for the debate.
Posted by notwpslam27 2 years ago
notwpslam27
mohammed was a sick disgusting man. Not a prophet. He was a liar and will be always viewed as a lying child molester. He was so ignorant he couldn't read or write but is a so called prophet. What a sham.
Posted by Lucassamson 2 years ago
Lucassamson
The pro wrote:
//I guess he forget when he said this in round 2,
-------------------------------------------------
1-The Bible's Prophets, and even Roman Emperors married girls as young as 8![ 1]
2-Mary got pregnant between the ages of 11 and 14.
-------------------------------------------------
Is Mary not a biblical Character?\
the pro accused me of quoting the bible,whereas he failed to show us the chapter or verse and moreover,MARY APPEARS IN THE BIBLE,QURAN AND JEWISH TALMUD
Posted by Lucassamson 2 years ago
Lucassamson
The pro wrote:
//Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.\
THE PRO WAS ARGUING FOR UNEXPECTED MARRIAGE HERE NOT UNEXPECTED SEX.
Posted by ibrolad 2 years ago
ibrolad
I mean the minimum age for marriage
Posted by ibrolad 2 years ago
ibrolad
the Pro failed to tell us the marriage age limit in the era of prophet Muhammed and how Aishat reported she was raped. the pro should tell us if Islam against the marriage
Posted by Lucassamson 2 years ago
Lucassamson
Irrespective of your religion,a sentimental free vote is required....thanks
No votes have been placed for this debate.