The Instigator
Prototype.LaBella
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
curious18
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Prophetic Visions

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/5/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,413 times Debate No: 11103
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

Prototype.LaBella

Pro

This has been an ongoing concern & question!! There are many ppl seeking the what's, why's, and how's. Will we be able to come up with an agreement or solution to this strange phenomena? Argument today based off this following scenario: A woman by the name of karen has been in a serious relationship with a male and she keeps having re-occurring dreams about him hanging around naked women. The dream could be false & a fear she is having that "this guy is playing around" but what if it is Actually true. What would you call that? Does she have the ability to be a prophet? Basically do you believe if ppl are given the ability to have prophetic visions?
curious18

Con

Since you are taking PRO, we can assume that you are supporting the "YES" to these questions. I, as CON, am supporting "NO."

First off, what the heck is a prophet? "an authoritative person who divines the future. Someone who speaks by divine inspiration; someone who is an interpreter of the will of God" (1)

Or we could take a less religious view that a prophet is one whom can accurately tell the future by some power, other then luck. This definition would seem a little more likely, since there was no mention of god in the original post.

"What would you call that?" I would call it poor rationalizing. And likely just a coincedence. Just because two similar events happen hear the same time, does not mean that they are truly related. For example, "An alternative, tongue-in-cheek, yet statistically valid theory shows an inverse relationship between the population of swashbuckling pirates and global temperatures. Specifically, that a decrease in the pirate population has caused a rapid increase in global temperatures." (2) Unless one can scientifically show that there is a link between two events, no logical conclusion can be made.

"Does she have the ability to be a prophet?" Umm, no.

"Basically do you believe if ppl are given the ability to have prophetic visions?" That one is a no as well.

(1) http://www.google.com...=
(2) http://www.randomstew.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Prototype.LaBella

Pro

You cannot make a less religious view using the word prophet if you are to do that then this person is to be considered a psychic or fortune-teller. Thus the bible detest against the works of these individuals. Prophecy in biblical terms is inspired communication from God. What makes it a prophecy is when god speaks through his prophets before the earthly event in question occurs. Predictive revelation that God who is eternal speaks from outside time to his creation and family in time. Once a word from the lord leaves from eternity makes its way in the earth usually through a human vessel it proceeds the events that occasioned it and that makes prophecy what it is. Psychics are different what they speak has already made its way from the spirit in secret of creator God and have been in the planet floating as temptation waiting to ensnare the soul of humanity. Other than this what they speak is received from seducing spirits that slander Gossip and talebearer, this is why the lord say they are the product of familiar spirits.

A prophetic vision is an appearance or unveiling of the spirit world and its supernatural activity to a prophet. Prophetic vessel or a dreamer of dreams such vision are for the purpose of revelatory preparation training awareness or other visual actions. The prophetic vision informs the dreamer of what is happening behind the veil of the world in terms of images that do not harm the dreamers or visionaries normal perception. As a matter of fact a purposely conflict with their habitual thought line. Quoted from the works & studies of Paula A. Price, PH.D and Dr. Bill Hamon (both theologist)

Theology is a "science" of God & Divine things.
A science must know its limitations. Natural science is false when it attempts to decide on the meaning of things. Likewise, theology is false when it attempts to decide on the physical nature of things.

Natural & physical science in term should not be used to question the events of a Divine entity such as God. How the brain operates cannot be explained by theology. Whether a person has prophetic visions/dreams cannot be explained by science. Leave each to its own.

Coincidence is a striking occurrence of two or more events at the same time occur apparently by mere chance/ A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged. A re-occurring dream cannot be thought of as accidental or apparent by mere chance. Scientist explain that when you dream it is often desires of the subconscious mind at work (science can explain how the brain operates.) But by her having dreams addressing a situation in her life that eventually ends up being accurate cannot be explained by science. Science cannot determine whether this was a vision from god or was not a vision from god.

The bible states that everything done in the dark will come to the light. It did not state how or when. So a prophetic vision detailing these events can likely be possible. Somebody could argue why would god waste a gift like this on something petty. Yes but that doesn't mean that it is not possible for her to be shown the truths of her boyfriends promiscuity through a communication media directed by God.
curious18

Con

In order to state that any vision is a work of god, one must first prove 1) that there is a god and 2) that said god communicated with said individual.

So before you can say this person is a prophet and that they were inspired by god that their partner was cheating on them, which is not really rare ya know, you have to show that there was, in fact, more then just a coincedence of the dream and reality.

If you have any evidence, like quotes from theologists, could you please link them so they can actually be considered? Please and thank you.

Forgive the short post, I'm on my ipod touch, and so typing takes awhile.
Debate Round No. 2
Prototype.LaBella

Pro

A visionary form of communication from god does not have to be proven to anybody only to the person that is receiving the prophecy. God proves his visionary work through the uses of other substance or persons as confirmations on whether what they are seeing is a divine revelation from him (this also is one way he uses to prove his existence to ppl). Nobody can say that this was not a prophetic vision because this is between God & the receiving individual. From that she is to determine how to interpret this vision or dream. She can determine it to be silly or believe it has a meaningful message to her. Now if this was to continue happening to her throughout her whole life with all her boyfriends her Idea of it being a coincidence will start to shrink. Psychic is out of the picture, so where are these things coming from. Intuition is a gut feeling, its unlikely it can affect you while in your sleep. As stated above a prophetic vision does not affect your normal perception. What you feel or think while awake can affect what you feel or think while sleep however that is not the case with prophetic visions. They are to show the truths of a subject matter and not everything you dream or see is a prophetic vision. You must discern the difference between dreams of self & visions from god, thats why god sends confirmations & that could also be a reason why her dream is re-occuring because its a confirmation of a hidden event that is true. Based on your knowledge & insight you determine how you go about facing the situation. The only other thing to help shed light on this subject matter would be from those individuals who have had this happen to them opposed to ones who haven't. I believe its possible for this phenomena to occur and physical/natural science cannot detest that.

On this argument we are not trying to prove whether there is a god or not.

Sited Sources: The Prophets dictionary (book by Paula Price) Prophets & the prophetic movement (book by Bill Hamon) Prophetic Pitfalls & Principles (book by bill Hamon). Sorry I dont have any internet linkage even thought there's lots of good information on the Internet, but you will also find opinions, misconceptions, and inaccurate information. These individuals were accredited with doctorate degrees in their field of study. I think this would be more reliable type of material to study and draw conclusions from than the internet.
curious18

Con

"A visionary form of communication from god does not have to be proven to anybody only to the person that is receiving the prophecy. God proves his visionary work through the uses of other substance or persons as confirmations on whether what they are seeing is a divine revelation from him (this also is one way he uses to prove his existence to ppl)."

Proof is universal. If it is actually "proof" that they are recieving, then that proof can be shared with others. What it actually is, is nothing. And they choose to believe it for whatever reasons and call it proof. But if it is proof, then that proof can be shared and proven to others. This can't, so it isn't proof.

"Nobody can say that this was not a prophetic vision because this is between God & the receiving individual."

Just playing devil's advocate here, If it is not possibe to say that it isn't, then it is not possible to say that it is. That door swings both ways. If, as you claim, only between god and the individual, then you are not privy to it and can't say it is.

"Now if this was to continue happening to her throughout her whole life with all her boyfriends her Idea of it being a coincidence will start to shrink."

I keep having dreams about baboon orgies, is God trying to tell me to do that?

"On this argument we are not trying to prove whether there is a god or not."

But it is completely relavent to the debate, if you can still call this a debate. If I say "I got a letter from Konapoopoomunga, TX" and you say "there isn't a Konapoopoomunga, TX" isn't that relative to whether or not I actually got a letter from that place?
Debate Round No. 3
Prototype.LaBella

Pro

Prototype.LaBella forfeited this round.
curious18

Con

My opponent isn't here anymore, so I extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
Prototype.LaBella

Pro

Prototype.LaBella forfeited this round.
curious18

Con

curious18 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Pro did not make a case.
Posted by curious18 7 years ago
curious18
Apparently, my opponents account is no longer open.
Posted by Itsallovernow 7 years ago
Itsallovernow
I agree with Koopin. I just did a debate like this, and presented my opponents entire case, as is Pro's, is one large fallacy.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
This is more of a forum than a debate. All pro does is ask questions.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
What is the resolution?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Prototype.LaBellacurious18Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by curious18 7 years ago
curious18
Prototype.LaBellacurious18Tied
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Total points awarded:07