The Instigator
Mikal
Pro (for)
Winning
37 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Prostitution should be legalized in the United States

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
Mikal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 20,552 times Debate No: 46608
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (110)
Votes (11)

 

Mikal

Pro

For the purpose of this debate the definitions in the resolution will be accepted as follows.


Prostitution - the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.

Legalized - make (something that was previously illegal) permissible by law.



Rounds will follow this structure


ME

Round 1 : Rules
Round 2 : Opening arguments and contentions
Round 3 : Rebuttals, rebuilding points, and closing statements


Adversary

Round 1 : Opening arguments and contentions
Round 2: Rebuttals, rebuilding points, and closing statements
Round 3 : Shall type "no round as agreed upon"



Rules

(1) Failure to type no round as agreed upon by my adversary will result in a full 7 point drop due to him/her having an extra round
(2) 10k character limit
(3) No sources may be posted that would extend that debaters arguments. (ie posting a link would extend your argument past 10k words)
(4) FF shall result in the loss of a conduct with multiple FFs possibly leading to a full 7 point drop at the discretion of the judges.
(5) No trolling or semanitcs. This will result in the loss of conduct and possibly a 7 point drop. This is a serious debate

I have made this impossible to accept. Post in comments If you are interested and I will pick someone
imabench

Con

Arguments for why Prostitution should NOT be legalized in the US

1) It would be an impossibly large industry to adequately regulate.

Ok first thing's first, if prostitution were to be legalized then its safe to say that a LOT of people would try it out. There are already 1 million prostitutes in the US at a time when its still illegal, so its safe to say that there would be a lot more if it were to be decriminalized

http://www.businessinsider.com...

I dont know exactly how many more people would become prostitutes if it were legalized, but its still safe to say that enough would become prostitutes for the US government to likely be unable to adequately regulate the industry, since theyve proven to be unable to handle ANYTHING adequately.

For the US to correctly regulate the prostitution industry, they would have to
- Test prostitutes for std's on a very regular basis (at least once a week) which makes testing all prostitutes for std's to prevent them from spreading it REALLY expensive
- Ensure that all prostitutes are currently licensed to be prostituting, and arent just freelancing it
- Ensure that all prostitutes are getting regularly tested to see if they have any kind of disease (not just std's can spread during sex after all)
- Ensure that the prostitutes are only prostituting at approved locations (im assuming they wont be able to go wherever they want and offer services, otherwise there is no way for them to be protected from abuse or rape)
- Set up places for prostitution to be practiced where they can have sex at a safe place
- Pour enough funding into all those places for it to be considered a safe work environment
- Somehow ensure that prostitutes arent abused during sex, which they often are (80% have been http://www.rapeis.org... )
- Ensure that there is a minimum age of when prostitutes can actually become prostitutes (many prostitutes started when they were 14-15 http://www.rapeis.org... )
- Ensure that prostitutes can maintain the right to refuse service to a client (If they cant do this, then its legalized rape)
- Ensure that those prostitutes are not taken advantage of financially by whoever is running the prostitution ring

There are a lot of other potential regulations that come into play if prostitution were to be legalized, and knowing the US government for its incompetence, it is likely that they will not be able to regulate such a massive industry, and that there would be tons of cases of disease being spread and prostitutes being beaten. Not to mention it would be expensive as hell to test all the prostitutes on a regular basis for std's and other normal diseases on a weekly basis.


2) Its not that profitable, if at all

There best estimate I could find about how much money the US could make from legalizing prostitution BEFORE taking into account all the money they would have to spend to make sure its well regulated and safe is just $8 Billion
http://money.msn.com...

$8 billion though is pocket change to the US, the US could get $8 billion by doing any of the following instead:

- reduce military spending by 1.5%
- reduce social security benefits by 0.9%
- reduce medicare and medicaid spending by 0.8%
- scrap funding for the F-35
- lower funding for any combo of these small military programs: http://en.wikipedia.org...
- reduce funding to the army by 3% (Go to previous link and scroll up ^)
- reduce funding to the navy by 6%
- reduce funding to the air force by 5%
- raise the excise tax by 9% http://en.wikipedia.org...
- raise the corporate tax by 2.5%
- raise the social security and other payroll taxes by 1%
- raise income taxes by 0.8%

Even if the US is projected to get $8 billion if prostitution were legalized and heavily taxed, there are waaaaaaay easier ways to get that kind of money if revenue is that big of a deal.

Legalizing prostitution simply isnt that profitable to the US, it might not be profitable at all considering how much it would cost to drug test all prostitutes on a weekly basis (for all diseases, not just STD's). Since legalizing prostitution wouldnt make that much money or provide any forseeable benefit to the US at all, while potentially costing a TON of money just through weekly testing of prostitutes and being borderline impossible for the government to adequetely regulate, it seems that there isnt any real good reason to legalize it.



3) It would entice girls to not pursue more noble professions.

Okay i hate to be judgmental (lol no I dont, tune in to the Weekly Stupid in the misc forum, every other Friday!) but in my opinion, prostitution is the absolute lowest profession one can be involved in.... Women who wish to grow up to become prostitutes are almost always the dumbest people in the classroom with the worst work ethic ever, who also usually have no kind of skill set that could be even remotely beneficial in an actual work environment in an actual, respectable profession.....

That being said, legalizing prostitution would likely incentivize girls in high school and college to not pursue studying to be an engineer or a doctor or something society could actually use, and instead simply drop out and become a prostitute, a profession that requires zero knowledge of stuff they teach in school. Why would a young girl work hard to become something that pays only a half-decent amount of money, when in comparision she could do no work at all and make the exact same amount of money by being a prostitute?

If prostitution were legalized, you would see an armada of young teenage girls in schools all over the nations start to give up on lofty goals of studying to become doctors and stuff like that, to instead become prostitutes in an industry that historically has been populated with the human equivalent of street rats. This would be a trend that would also suck out potential girls from schools in the future as well. That girl who might think of the cure to a disease could instead end up being a prostutute on the streets spreading disease....

Well ive burned 6500 characters, so ill just end here for now

over to you pro
Debate Round No. 1
Mikal

Pro

Per the rules I am going to start with my contentions and then offer rebuttals in the next round.


It is going to happen anyway

I am going to tie this point into a later contention, but the thing I want to note is that even if it remains illegal it will not stop. There are an estimated 1-2 million prostitutes in the United States alone right now [1]. This means prostitution is occurring at a rapid rate and will continue to happen regardless of whether it remains illegal.

(a) They won't just quit

Studies show that an estimated 75-95 percent of prostitutes were abused as children, and they are afraid to leave because of what their pimp would do to them [2]. For many women this is the only life they know, and some enjoy it and some hate it. Regardless they have it in their head this is the best way for them to support their family and they are going to keep doing it.

Things that happen due to non regulation

Now that we know it is going to happen whether or not it is illegal, I want to take a look at some of the effects from prostitution in the current system. Women that are under pimps almost always suffer physical abuse, mental abuse, and money manipulation [2]. Meaning they have to do their job or they are often beaten, and even once they complete the act they receive only a portion of the money that is earned. They are intimidated and are stuck in a endless cycle. In addition to this almost 80 percent of prostitutes are raped[2]. Once a woman agrees to the act of sex and there are terms set out, a man can still rape her against her will. This happens commonly in the industry, and they are often forced to do acts they do not wish too.

204 out of 100,000 prostitutes are murdered in this business due to lack of regulation. This is 20 times over the national average when you compare it to other countries that have regulated the practice[3]. 6-8 percent of prostitutes also contract STDS and other HIVS due to lack of regulation , this is almost 1.5 the national average as well [3]. In addition to this the industry spits out an amazing 58 billion dollars yearly and this is without regulation and proper procedures. This is only an estimate with money often going under the table or not being recorded [3].



Regulating Prostitution

There are a huge number of benefits from this and it is most certainly the answer that we need to look at. It is estimated that if prostitution were legalized in the United States it would decrease the rapes in the united states by 25% percent alone or roughly decrease it by 25,000 rapes per year [4]. When we compare this to other countries that have legalized prostitution we see similar results. Most of those countries if not almost all of them have saw a drastic decrease in sexual violence and rapes once prostitution was legalized[4]

It is also proven that regulation of prostitution will help prevent murder rates and sexual acts of violence as I already mentioned with the murder rate dropping from nearly to 20% of people in the business to under 10. We can tell this by subsequent places whom have legalized it seeing similar results. The irony of this is how heavy this can be regulated. This was legalized in parts of Nevada and since then the STD rate among prostitutes have dropped dramatically. Porn stars have more STDS than Nevada prostitutes now [6]. Since prostitution was legalized in Nevada we have seen a drastic decrease in violence, rape, and diseases in the prostitution industry [7][8]. So saying it can not be regulated is a drastic misconception. It can and has been regulated in both Nevada and 22 other countries all throughout all the world. All of which have shown decreases in acts of violence, murders, and disease after they legalized it.





Costs

In America 80,000 citizens are arrested a year for solicitation of sex[5 ]. I am going to break this down simply but this is a pretty fair estimate.

The cost on incarcerating someone is estimated around 28,000 per year. The cost of arrest runs around 10,000 per person(this is just on a marijuana charge which is far cheaper than most arrests, the price would actually be higher [9]). The cost of a trial is roughly 42,000 per hour so let us assume this will be a short case and round it up to 128,000 per case due to a 3 hour trial [10] .

Now lets do some math

If there are 80,000 citizens arrested yearly for selling sex, and we were just to put them in jail for one year

1 person X 28,000 = 28,000

28,000(incarceration yearly) + 10,000(cost of arrest) +128,000(short trial ) = 166,000 dollars per person. ( Even if you were to knock off the 28,000 dollars and say a few months or weeks instead of a year this is still running over 100k per person)

Now take

166,000(per person) x 80,000( that are arrested yearly) = 13,280,000,000

Take that in 13 billion and 280 million dollars is the price to properly enforce prostitution crime in the United States, and this is assuming a 3 hour trial.


Consent

This is a basic argument but again one of the key factors in this argument.

"Prostitution is perhaps the ultimate victimless crime: a consensual transaction in which both parties are supposedly committing a crime, and the person most likely to be charged—the one selling sex—is also the one most likely to be viewed as the victim" [11] says Cathy Young

Something we have to acknowledge is that selling sex is a consensual act among two adults that remains between those two adults. It is almost no different than buying your girlfriend dinner and expecting or having a pre agreed conversation about having sex after. It is sex in exchange for a gift or money. It is consensual among two adults and we are calling it a crime

I mean we have legalized cigarettes and alcohol, both of which have more direct effects on secondary individuals than prostitution ever will. Meaning those two things actually harm individuals and we consider it fine. Second hand smoke and drunk driving kill about as many people as pre mediated homicides on a yearly basis.

Prostitution hardly has no impact with physical harm toward a secondary person, and is an adult decision between two adults to have sex for payment. I have no idea how this is even a crime to begin with, because in minor ways we all have accidentally did something similar to this.

Ever asked your girlfriend

" Hey if i buy you this can we have sex afterwards"

Guess what you just did? Don't sit there and think to yourself gross, I have friends that do this almost on a day to day basis and it is the same freaking concept. Yet when people want to make it a business we spend 13 billion dollars a year arresting them instead of regulating it.



Conclusion

Legalizing prostitution has been shown to decrease rates in murder , rape, and diseases by a substantial margin. It is a consenting act between two adults and with proper regulation can bring 58 billion dollars yearly to the table, opposed to spending 13 billion trying to arrests people that are never going to stop doing it.

I mean ask yourself how is having sex for something a crime? We are filling our jails and spending money on people that do not need to be there. By legalizing this we cut costs of incarceration, and have a new industry to pull money from.

In addition to this it is a necessity for womens health. It gets women whom have been trapped under pimps into a system into which they can receive proper treatment. It gives them a way to go to doctors, gives them hope that they will not be abused, and also helps cut down murders because of this occurring in back-alleys and off the radar

Legalizing this is almost a necessity, it has a great number of benefits. We can see this from Nevada and the other 22 countires that have did this prior to us and all have had amazing results.









[1] http://prostitution.procon.org...
[2] http://www.womenslaw.org...
[3] http://sex-crimes.laws.com...
[4] http://findingjustice.org...
[5] http://www.independent.org...
[6] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[7] http://www.kuro5hin.org...
[8] http://prostitution.procon.org...
[9] http://norml.org...
[10] http://www.ohiojpc.org...
[11] http://prostitution.procon.org...
imabench

Con

1) 'It is going to happen anyway'

Just because it is going to happen anyway if its illegal, that doesnt mean we should just legalize it...... Murder and rape are also going to happen anyways even if its illegalized, but we shouldnt legalize those things simply because they will keep happening regardless if its illegal or not......

"they are afraid to leave because of what their pimp would do to them"

Its not the US government's job to go out of their way to make prostitutes lives easier just because they arent courageous enough to stop doing something they dont want to do in the first place.... If someone doesnt like their boring office job but are afraid of what will happen if they quit, then those people should learn to face their fears and stand up for themselves rather then wait for the government to come in and make their job nicer.....




2) Symptoms of unregulation + illegalization

"Once a woman agrees to the act of sex and there are terms set out, a man can still rape her against her will."

That could still happen even if the industry WAS legalized.... Youd have to invest a crazy amount of money into a crazy amount of regulation to ensure that prostitutes can stop having sex the second she wants to stop."




"204 out of 100,000 prostitutes are murdered in this business due to lack of regulation"

Its not the lack of regulation thats killing these prostitutes though, its the pimps and their clients.... Saying that lack of regulation is causing these murders is the equivalent of saying that all gun-related murders are caused by not enough regulation, rather than the murderers themselves.





3 - Regulating Prostitution

"Most of those countries if not almost all of them have saw a drastic decrease in sexual violence and rapes once prostitution was legalized"

The source you gave to support this statement does not corroborate it at all.....




"It is also proven that regulation of prostitution will help prevent murder rates and sexual acts of violence as I already mentioned with the murder rate dropping from nearly to 20% of people in the business to under 10."

Expanding prostitution to 49 other states only opens the door to having more chances of prostitutes to get raped and/or murdered, especially if the industry isnt adequetely regulated.



"Porn stars have more STDS than Nevada prostitutes now"

Thats not a convincing comparison to make though. If I were to say that Country A is safer/healthier than friggin Somalia, thats still pretty low and a very unconvincing reason to think that Country A is safe at all.



"So saying it can not be regulated is a drastic misconception. It can and has been regulated in both Nevada"

Just because Nevada can handle it doesnt mean the rest of the US can..... Hell, Nevada is a state that doesnt even have 3 million people in it, with most of those people living in counties that have NOT legalized prostitution..... Its easy to regulate a place that is in the middle of an empty desert, that doesnt mean it will be just as easy to regulate New York City or Los Angeles.




4 - Costs

"If there are 80,000 citizens arrested yearly for selling sex, and we were just to put them in jail for one year..."

Ok stop right there.

People who get arrested for soliciting sex dont spend a year in jail..... In fact people arrested for soliciting sex almost NEVER even spend time in prison: http://sex-crimes.laws.com...

Most people arrested for prostitution simply get a fine of a few hundred dollars and are simply released back into the public after a few days, meaning they dont spend a year in jail, and dont even face a trial over what they were arrested for. So all your math alleging how much illegalizing prostitution costs the US each year is completely false and made up.



5 - Consent

"I mean we have legalized cigarettes and alcohol, both of which have more direct effects on secondary individuals than prostitution ever will."

Yeah but theres nothing inherently immoral about smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. When dealing with prostitution though, morality comes into question.



"Prostitution hardly has no impact with physical harm toward a secondary person, and is an adult decision between two adults to have sex for payment. I have no idea how this is even a crime to begin with"

It may have something to do with being immoral along with being heavily tied to sex trafficking, murder, rape, and a lot of other really nasty things.




"Legalizing prostitution has been shown to decrease rates in murder , rape, and diseases by a substantial margin"

Decreasing poverty also has the same effects, and I think everyone here would agree that it would be better to spend money to end poverty than it would be to legalize prostitution.




"We are filling our jails and spending money on people that do not need to be there"

Except we're NOT filling our jails with people who dont need to be there.



"By legalizing this we cut costs of incarceration, and have a new industry to pull money from. "

But not all that potential money could go to the government, and the little that does could easily be swallowed up by the massive costs of regulating the industry, such as weekly tests on all the prostitutes to make sure theyre clean.



"It gets women whom have been trapped under pimps into a system into which they can receive proper treatment"

They can also get away from pimps simply by WALKING AWAY, which sounds easier than having the government come in and legalize + regulate the living hell out of the industry doesnt it?

==============================================================================================


Look here are the facts:

- Legalizing prostitution doesnt mean that the number of rapes and murders will go down, it could actually open the door for more rapes and murders to take place, especially if the industry is very poorly regulated, which knowing the US government will probably happen

- Prositution does NOT cost the US as much as pro says it does, in fact its not even CLOSE to what he alleges.

- The amount of money that regulating prostitution could cost would easily dwarf any amount of money that the government could somehow make from it.

- There are far easier ways for the US to make up that money if its really that big of an issue, as previously stated

- Legalizing prostitution would drain young girls in high school and college out of schools to become prostitutes, when they could instead be something useful to society such as engineers, doctors, teachers.... Stuff that the country actually NEEDS.
Debate Round No. 2
Mikal

Pro

Going straight into refutations.

It is going to happen away.

The argument my adversary brings up for this is kind of off track. Using murder as a comparison to prostitution is not logical. If anything it would be similar to a marijuana stance. If people are going to sell it and you can make money and regulate it, then it is more beneficial to legalize it than allow it to happen illegally. This argument follows the same principles. Prostitution can and will happen, but there are a few notable things about it.

(a) It is consensual
(b) it can be regulated
(c) it does not harm third parties directly

Comparing it to murder is a logical fallacy. Murder directly and negatively effects third parties. It results it death so this is quite obvious. The entire rebuttal my adversary brought up here falls apart when we compare them logically. He then says it is not the US governments job to go out of their way to make the lives of prostitutes easier.

This is kind of sad in some ways, especially the misconception that he has about prostitution. He even compares this to an office job. There are a lot of prostitutes that do no want to be prostitutes. They are stuck there because of financial reasons and the inability to make money in other ways. They could have criminal records or because of how the economy is, may not be able to find a job. Some of these women will do anything to make sure there family is taken care of, regardless of what happens to them. So when they actually go into the business a good many of them actually have no idea what they are getting into. You can see from my prior round that leaving a pimp is not always easy. In some cases they will try to kill the women if they leave, or even go as far as physically abusing or mentally harassing them. In some ways they are a prisoner to this life style [1] . By the US government legalized and regulating it , it can help stop violence, murder, and even help some of these women escape a life they may not want any more. It also gives a more safe alternative for women whom actually want to stay in the business.



Rape

It could possibly happen if it were legalized, but my adversary completely drops the amounts of rapes that occur because of it not being legal and the amount of rapes legalizing it will prevent. As we can see from my last round legalizing prostitution will reduce the rape rate by 25 percent in the United States alone, which is a drastic 25,000 fewer rapes per year. [2]. This is a perfectly good reason for legalization. While it may happen if it were legalized, it would not happen near as much as if it remains illegal. By near as much I mean 25 percent less. If you really consider it that is a monumental number. That is 1/4 of the amount of rapes that occur in the united states alone. If we can decrease the amount of rapes that occur yearly by 1/4 that is an a pretty solid reason to legalize it, even from a moral perspective.


Murder

My adversary calls me out on my wording but just skips the point I presented. Obviously the pimps and clients are murdering the prostitutes. This is part of the contention. I just think he was lost as to how to actually refute this and tried to throw out a red herring to get rid of the contention. This is the same issue as above. By regulation and legalizing prostitution it also decreases the number of murders that occur on a yearly basis in the United States. Those murder rates you see can be prevented with proper regulation. They are occurring because they happen under the table. With legalization comes regulation, which is a business and which can be monitored and tracked. This will prevent deaths due to it happening in the light and not in back alleys and hotel rooms with no real way of monitoring anything. It is shown murder rates will decrease along with rape rapes if it is legalized [3].


Countries see a drastic decrease in violence and rapes once prostitution was legalized.

Again instead of addressing the contention properly, he just says no source. This did not even touch the contention that I brought up and this stands untouched. If he wants some sources, I will toss up a few. Granted this is almost common knowledge and does not need citing. [4] We also can do this logically. The nether lands legalized prostitution in 2000(using wiki as a source for this because it is a fact, does not really need citing but just to prove a point [5]) Now before 2000 when it was legalized the murder rate in the nether lands was a high as 1.70 on a 100,000 scale. From the time of it being legalized in 2000 it started to decline to to 1.46 down to under a 1 in the past few years. In this case correlation does equal causation. We see similar results when we look at Nevada and other countries. We have very similar results.



Expanding prostitution would open up more cases of rape

Not if it is regulated. I have no idea where con pulled this argument from but every one my sources shows otherwise.

Porn stars and prostitutes

This was to show a correlation of hivs and diseases that prostitutes had prior to legalization and after they legalized it. The number went down. The prostitution industry is so heavily regulated that they have less HIV rates that porn stars , at least in Nevada.


It can be regulated

If we can regulate weed, alcohol, porn, and cigarettes I promise we can regulate prostitution. Other nations don't even have the tools we have for regulation and they still manage it and see lower rates of violence. Con just says it can't be regulated and provides no evidence or logical thought process to support this. This almost was untouched due to a lack of response.


Costs

They are given both fines and minor jail time[7]. So lets assume con is right and everyone is given a fine and no jail time(not true, you will see this in a second). Say 200 for a round number because it is between 100-300 dollars. Still assuming we are spending 10,000 for the costs of arrests and papers and this is not even considering half the cases that could go to court as a result of other factors.

80,000 * 10,000 = 800,000,000 + 80,000(fines) = 800,080,000 just in arrests costs and fines alone. Add in the fact a lot of these cases will see court time we are still talking 1 - 2 billion extra that could be avoided entirely.


Morality

Morality should not even be an issue in this discussion. It is about consent and what should be allowed. That is the equivalent to saying gay people can not marry because it is "immoral". Immoral is a concept that is defined differently for everyone and should not play a factor in what is legalized in this country.


Secondary Harm and third parties

It does not directly effect secondary individuals or third parties. Alcohol you have drunk driving, cigarettes you have second hand smoke, weed can be the same thing as cigarettes. All these things have factors that can harm someone directly. Prostitution does not have any of that. Everything you mentioned is a branch of what could possibly happen, and none of it is cited nor proven. This is con speculating about the possibility of it.

Decrease in murder rate

This is not really even a rebuttal on his part. If you want to see this more in depth about how and why women are trapped in this industry and how legalizing it will prevent 25 percent of rapes that occur in the US on a yearly basis, read the prior contentions and rebuttals.

Jails and Prisons

Prostitutes do get jail time, and as you mentioned fines. While it may not bear the entire 80,000 that are caught a good many do go to jail/prison. Texas spent around 6.5 million dealing with ones that are in jail [8]. And it is not just texas

" According to Illinois Department of Corrections records, there were 127 prostitution admissions in 2012, costing $2 million. End Demand Illinois, an advocacy group against sex traffickers, estimates that holding an individual facing felony prostitution charges costs Cook County $5.3 to $9.5 million every year. Illinois has one of the harshest prostitution policies in the nation; only 7 other states still charge prostitution as a felony, and Illinois is the only state to allow felony prosecution after one offense." [9]


Conclusion

I have refuted almost all of my adversaries contentions. Prostitution is an industry that can be regulated, taxed , and monitored. With legalizing it comes a great many benefits as well. It can reduce crime, rapes, and sexual violence in large numbers. It can help prevent STDS and HIVS, and give women whom are stuck in this industry a way out if they so chose. It also can produce a high amount of revenue. Legalizing it not only helps and gives women whom are stuck in a bad life a chance to either get out, or have a chance to treated better in their trade it also prevents deaths , rapes, and also frees up money that is being used without need.

I would like to thank Con for a great Debate. This debate got a lot of hype and it was a pleasure to debate dabench.






[1] http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu...
[2] http://www.independent.org...
[3] http://www.independent.org...
[4] http://prostitution.procon.org...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://www.nationmaster.com...
[7] http://sex-crimes.laws.com...
[8] http://www.theagitator.com...
imabench

Con

Frozen won best animated film, and the song 'Let it Go' won best original song

in the end, that's all that really matters :D
Debate Round No. 3
110 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by loaka 2 years ago
loaka
I wish I could still vote for ya Frozen.
Posted by Jingram994 2 years ago
Jingram994
"I am being accused of spamming and annoyance by Mikal, and he has reported me to Airmax with the hope that I will be banned. I though everyone had the right to post comments to debates?"

Uhh... Okay? Well, *are* you spamming and annoying people without due cause? While you do have a right to post comments to debates, people do also have a right to report you if you're doing so in a malicious fashion.

"Therefore, I can"t respond to your comment here. Because of this, I have created the following forum to answer your comment."

K. Cheers.
Posted by GWL-CPA 2 years ago
GWL-CPA
@Jingram994

I am being accused of spamming and annoyance by Mikal, and he has reported me to Airmax with the hope that I will be banned. I though everyone had the right to post comments to debates?

Therefore, I can"t respond to your comment here. Because of this, I have created the following forum to answer your comment.

Why Prostitution Should Never be Legalized.

http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Jingram994 2 years ago
Jingram994
"Murders and rapes in Nevada are higher than many states that don't have prostitution, e.g., Utah."
Not relevant. This is specifically about murder rates regarding prostitutes directly.

"Mikal overlooks the fact that prostitutes in Nevada are abused by brothel owners and have no medical benefits or anything else. They are treated worse than dogs."
Can you please provide sources backing this up? Because that sounds exactly the same as the rest of the drivel you normally put out. Also, you should indicate whether you're talking about illegal, unregulated prostitutes or the actual regulated industry; if the former, then this is not relevant.

"And, in all countries that have legalized brothels, it hasn't cut down on illegal street walking prostitutes and professional call whores that don't get tested monthly for STDs and HIV."
Please provide sources showing this is the case. Also, this isn't as relevant as you seem to think; it HAS cut down on the percentage of prostitutes that are doing so in an unregulated, unhygienic and unsafe atmosphere. It DOES serve to protect the health, lives and rights of prostitutes and clients who make use of the legal system. It does exactly what it's meant to do.

"Totally insane, Many countries that once legalized it are now banning it"
No they aren't. You literally just made that up to try and make your point sound better than it really is. The actual fact is that pretty much the exact opposite is the case in the real world.
Posted by GWL-CPA 2 years ago
GWL-CPA
Mikal's Conclusion is total nonsense and not supported by the facts.

Murders and rapes in Nevada are higher than many states that don't have prostitution, e.g., Utah.

One out of five women in Nevada has been a victim of forcible rape. Murder in Nevada is at .004494% and rape .03374 in 2012, in Utah it murder is 0.001751 and rape 0.03303. The rate of murder and rape really have nothing to do with legalized prostitution.

"Legalizing prostitution has been shown to decrease rates in murder , rape, and diseases by a substantial margin. It is a consenting act between two adults and with proper regulation can bring 58 billion dollars yearly to the table, opposed to spending 13 billion trying to arrests people that are never going to stop doing it."

"I mean ask yourself how is having sex for something a crime? We are filling our jails and spending money on people that do not need to be there. By legalizing this we cut costs of incarceration, and have a new industry to pull money from.

In addition to this it is a necessity for womens health. It gets women whom have been trapped under pimps into a system into which they can receive proper treatment. It gives them a way to go to doctors, gives them hope that they will not be abused, and also helps cut down murders because of this occurring in back-alleys and off the radar

Legalizing this is almost a necessity, it has a great number of benefits. We can see this from Nevada and the other 22 countires that have did this prior to us and all have had amazing results."

Mikal overlooks the fact that prostitutes in Nevada are abused by brothel owners and have no medical benefits or anything else. They are treated worse than dogs.

And, in all countries that have legalized brothels, it hasn't cut down on illegal street walking prostitutes and professional call whores that don't get tested monthly for STDs and HIV.

Totally insane, Many countries that once legalized it are now banning it
Posted by GWL-CPA 2 years ago
GWL-CPA
Prostitution is only legal in one State in the USA, and not the entire state, only counties with less than 50,000 people. Only 8 counties allow it and there are only 19 brothels, employing a max of around 200 females at any time in total in the 19 brothels.

Prostitution is illegal in the following counties: Clark (which contains Las Vegas), Washoe (which contains Reno), Douglas, and Lincoln. Prostitution is also illegal in Nevada's capital, Carson City, an independent city. The rest of Nevada's counties are permitted by state law to license brothels, but only 8 counties have done so. As of August 2013, there are 19 brothels in Nevada.[1]

So, prostitution and brothels are illegal in Las Vegas and Reno and all are in the country, far from major cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

To have a debate that prostitution should be legal throughout the USA is just plain stupid. John Stossel is another jerk that thinks like this. Many countries in the world that once legalized prostitution have now changed their minds, e.g., Germany.

There is no way that you could medially test ten of thousands of prostitutes in NYC, Chicago, Los Angles, etc. monthly like is required in Nevada. And, all the brothels in Nevada are out in the country and far away from the major cities.

Another, meaningless debate.
Posted by jam20636 2 years ago
jam20636
I was surprised to see that Con did not bring at least an ethical proposition: should we commoditize our bodies for profit? Should there some semblance of business ethics? If we can do this, can we also sell our organs which is currently illegal too?
Posted by LuckyStars 2 years ago
LuckyStars
Dam you must really love Frozen.
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
what in the holy hell just happened
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
Hey now frozen is a great movie
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Jevinigh 2 years ago
Jevinigh
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Reasons for voting decision: Con's argument came off as being so... Cold, but in addition to lack of empathy she never made the case to why her morality makes an effective basis for a law.
Vote Placed by jwcmcorbin 2 years ago
jwcmcorbin
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Reasons for voting decision: When deciding this round I focused heavily on the sources that were given, the analysis of those sources, and the solubility both sides offered. First on the Con, the Con made multiple major points that had no evidence to back it up: "if it were legalized, but its still safe to say that enough would become prostitutes for the US government to likely be unable to adequately regulate" for example. Also I felt the Con misinterpreted some of the sources here and did not give an accurate analysis from it (i.e. cutting spending and gaining profit are two different things). What I felt lacked in this debate was the topic of Private businesses, there was barely anything on how they would be regulated or work. But overall I voted Pro, he showed me a much better ability to solve evidence and a decline in rape in the Prostitution industry from the Pro world. And Finally for the Con: This point you said seemed strange to me: "Its not the US government's job to..." if not, then why is it il
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
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Reasons for voting decision: The decision seems relatively straightforward to me. I see strong impacts from Pro's case about reducing death tolls, reducing rape, reducing STD spread, and overall making life safer for prostitutes. I get three separate sets of responses from Con - mitigation, costs of implementation, and that the size of the industry will increase. The first is literally just going through and saying that this won't work, and Con isn't winning enough of these points to make Pro's case disappear. The cost analysis is a strong argument, but I never see it weighed or impacted within the debate. Why should I care more about the financial costs when the human costs are so much easier to evaluate? Lastly, this point about expanding the industry (and thus bringing in more prostitutes) just doesn't get enough support. I'd have liked to see more response from Pro on this, but since I am given no idea of how much legalization increases numbers, and what that equates to in harms, it doesn't weigh heavily.
Vote Placed by amik10 2 years ago
amik10
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Reasons for voting decision: So for me this was hard round to judge. For me it really came down to the 3 biggest issues, "it will happen anyway," murder, and rape. I gave it will happen anyway to CON because PRO refuted this horribly, and there were soooo many flaws in that PRO point. I gave rape to PRO because they were able to defend & refute it well. In murder, What I looked at for was who had the greater impact. and I felt that because of CON's analogy that "Saying that lack of regulation is causing these murders is the equivalent of saying that all gun-related murders are caused by not enough regulation, rather than the murderers themselves." I completely bought this argument, thought it was a great impact, and completely took away PRO's impact, so I voted CON. Conduct to PRO b/c of CON saying "friggin" (I know it's not a curse, but you could have used a better word.) Also prostitution is not always consensual, a lot of girls r forced into it. Anyway AMAZING debate.You are both great debaters. Congrats to CON
Vote Placed by Artur 2 years ago
Artur
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Reasons for voting decision: it was a good debate. now, ?ON had some logical fallacies such as comparing prostitution with murdering/killing and PRO showed it well, now considering such plights, PRO had better conduct. arguements of PRO was better and they were not replied in a true way by CON, I think CON was biased on this issue, that is why I think CON used subjective arguements such as immorality.
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 2 years ago
GarretKadeDupre
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Reasons for voting decision: Both had convincing arguments. I was a libertarian on this issue before I read this debate, but now I'm not so sure. I'll leave it a tie as Con brought me from Pro's position to a middle position, but not close enough to his position. Pro shouldn't have dismissed Con's morality argument so lightly. As a subscriber to the concept of objective morality, this almost lost him the debate. But his math made up for it. Con refuted some of his math, but not the statistics on rape and murder. Con won the "they can just walk away" argument. Leaving it a tie. I won't bother checking sources.
Vote Placed by TUF 2 years ago
TUF
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Reasons for voting decision: RFd in comments
Vote Placed by bluesteel 2 years ago
bluesteel
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Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments
Vote Placed by donald.keller 2 years ago
donald.keller
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct was even, although the rules said to say "no round as agreed upon", it's entirely unimportant, and relates little if any to the actual debate. Spelling and Grammar was fair, both sides did good. Not all of Pro's sources immediately worked, but by the end, both sides covered their backs well. Convincing Arguments was a close one. I liked the arguments I saw on Con's side, but Pro was right that Con didn't always directly tackle a lot of arguments. While tied on every argument they both tackled, not all of Pro's arguments were refuted, leaving Pro one notch above. I enjoyed this debate completely, and hope to see these two go at it again someday.
Vote Placed by bsh1 2 years ago
bsh1
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Reasons for voting decision: Sooooo many vote bombs. Wow. Con did a good job - I'm actually surprised by the side he took in this debate. If anything, I thought he'd be for prostitution. Little surprises...Anyway, back to the RFD...Firstly, I was annoyed at Pro's terming the murder analogy used by Con a "logical fallacy." It wasn't--it was actually an interesting way to look at the problem. Ultimately, Pro is right that murder isn't consensual, whereas prostitution is, but I think Con's analogy still had merit. Pro wins the vast majority of the offense--Con didn't go in depth enough to cover all he needed to. However, I feel as if Con deserves the sources point because one of Pro's sources failed to substantiate the claim it was being used to cite. A polite round clearly goes Pro.