The Instigator
sadolite
Pro (for)
Winning
181 Points
The Contender
tootiefruteh
Con (against)
Losing
94 Points

Prove to me global warming is caused by man by proving the evidence I provided is flawed/incorrect

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Started: 3/6/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,818 times Debate No: 3111
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (147)
Votes (56)

 

sadolite

Pro

I am going to submit evidence that global warming may not be caused by man and most if not all of that evidence will summarily be dismissed do to non scientific reasons such as it is junk science or it is bought and paid for by some oil company, it is political propaganda by deniers or the scientists who are submitting the evidence have some ax to grind or they don't meet some higher learning qualification. I seriously doubt any of it will be analyzed or even compared to any evidence for global warming being caused by man. More than likely I will be sent to links justifying the pro position and none of my evidence will be addressed. Instead the focus will be shifted from my evidence and an attempt will be made to shift the burden of proof on me and I will have to prove their position. This will not happen in this debate. The burden of proof is on the challenger to prove why my evidence is invalid "SCIENTIFICALY", not politically or in any other manner that is not scientific. The sources I use are irrelevant, if it can be proved wrong with a high degree of conclusiveness using comparative scientific data from other sources it should be very easy for you to do. I will not dismiss your sources as I approach any evidence or theories on this subject as valid until I can compare the data and see if it is consistent, biased or completely incorrect based on other available data from both sides of the argument. If you are not willing to except the terms of this debate don't accept the challenge. If you attempt to dismiss any of my sources based on anything other than scientific reasons I will immediately end the debate because it will become a complete waste of my time. I am on this site to be educated on the subject both pro and con based on the scientific evidence from both sides of the argument. I do not care if I win or lose this debate. I am almost positive but not completely positive that when this debate is over nothing will be proved to any conclusive degree that man is more likely than not to be the cause of global warming based on the evidence available from both sides.
Being able to determine an average global temperature must be accurate in order to determine if the average global temperature is warming or cooling. Researchers in this link say it is thermodynamically and mathematically impossible to put a single number on the average temperature of the earth. Furthermore there are several different ways to figure averages and depending on which method you use you will get completely different results. So from this data it is impossible to tell if the average global temperature is rising without being biased towards one method of determining average global temperature. And if you do use a method that is biased you have to leave out the fact that it is mathematically and thermodynamically impossible to figure an average global temperature even when you use that biased method.
http://www.sciencedaily.com...
I have searched for other sources and could find none that dispute this claim. Good luck to you in your searches. You will find lots of sites claiming average temps but from the data I have read they are more likely than not to be flawed and inaccurate representations if indeed it is impossible to figure an average global temp. What I ask for in this link is a similar link that says it is not impossible to figure average global temps using mathematics and thermodynamics and that those figures are more likely to be accurate than not. This should be very easy to prove in my opinion because a great deal of the evidence for the pro side is based on the theory that average global temps are rising.

(GCM's ) General Circulation Models: They attempt to simulate or predict future climate conditions. These have been proven to be completely inaccurate and flawed at predicting climate changes in the future because the data that is initially input to generate the simulation is based on guesses and assumptions on how the climate works and scientists all agree that they are not even close to knowing how it works with any degree of accuracy. It is further stated that GCM's are unsuitable and to inaccurate for the basis of setting public policy with regard to Global warming
http://www.heartland.org...
http://www.worldclimatereport.com...
http://www.globalwarming.org...
http://www.giss.nasa.gov...
There are hundreds of links that discuss GCM's and virtually all of them admit to guessing or using arbitrary numbers based on the limited knowledge that is available on how the earth's climate works. My research indicates that GCM's are virtually worthless indicators of future global conditions.
!7,000 Scientists disagree that Co2 is the main cause of global warming and that we are still recovering from a small ice age and have provided an extensive report as to why they think this is so based on all available data with regard to the earth's climate. This report is extremely detailed and just as convincing as the pro side. Why is everything in this report not valid when used as evidence that would suggest global warming is not caused by man?
http://www.oism.org...
I want to know the truth about this subject. But for every link that says global warming is caused by man I can find one that is equally scientific if not more based on science that it isn't.
I wish my opponent luck, this will be a very hard for you because the burden of proof is on you should you accept this debate. Don't take this debate if you are not going to use science to prove my links wrong and make no attempt to shift the burden of proof on me. You are trying to convince me that global warming is caused by man by man. If you can prove that the evidence that I have provided is flawed or incorrect with a reasonable degree of conclusiveness I will change my mind.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
sadolite

Pro

I don't need to make a rebuttal under the terms of this debate as none of my evidence was addressed. The burden of proof is not on me.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
sadolite

Pro

I don't need to make a rebuttal under the terms of this debate as none of my evidence was addressed. The burden of proof is not on me.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
147 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 21 through 30 records.
Posted by Rob1Billion 5 years ago
Rob1Billion
the jury is in - global temps are changing all the time; there is no need to argue this. The vikings that landed in greenland had a relatively warm climate to work with (c. 1,000-1,400) and then the planet cooled down and their canadian settlements were wiped out. The temp came back up (I believe) about the time that you guys are arguing (1800's). Scientists theorize that at some point a billion years or so ago the earth was a complete frozen-through iceball, and later on the earth was so warm that alligators existed in northern canada. This all goes to show that the earth can and will change its temperatures base on the conditions that are present. 6 billion humans and rising is definitely a "presence" that could alter the earth's climate, especially when you measure our effects on the atmosphere - mainly CO2 emissions which, like tat said, have risen from 300ppm to about 383ppm presently. There are fluctuations in the earth's CO2 over time as well; but we are currently entering a period of the highest EVER recorded readings. We can analyze ice-core samples from hundreds of millions of years ago to read the CO2 levels, and although they do fluctuate, they don't fluctuate THAT much. As far as ancient fossil readings of incredible C02 readings, that may be true, and that may have to do with the incredible temp changes I described earlier.
Posted by believer_720 5 years ago
believer_720
A small typo does not mean in any way that I have my wires crossed.

The temperatures did begin to warm about 5 to 10 years after the Little Ice Age. This is because global warming is a natural cycle.

Here's another interesting piece of info I've found.

Scientists have found ferns that have been entirely fossilized. After extensive research, they have found that, this is because of the overwhelming amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. The plant could not decompose correctly because of it, and it was therefore fossilized.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Tat, You have just proven my point, "WINGNUTTERY"
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
Oh, some people called some of those scientists opposed to Global Warming. They were really pissed to be on such a lying misleading list and emphatically noted how their work supported the theory of Global Warming.
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
Wingnuttery saying it's bad is not bad. It wasn't that hot in the 1800-1850s.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Tat, For every link you provide, all I have to do is do at most 3 minutes of research and debunk everyone of your claims. You just completely ignore the the error factors in all of your links. 3/4 of the time I use your own sources to prove you wrong. All you do when I provide a link is say they are a bunch of deniers or it's "poppy cock". Real scientific, not.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
The link you provided is just a bunch of graphs with no explanations or any context what so ever. Although I did look up the one and only name that was on it. Thomas Crowley

This link states that the effects and predictions on global warming are over exaggerated. It is co authored by Thomas Crowley , your source. But of course you leave this bit of information out because it doesn't say what you want it to say.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

This link is a link similar to yours with charts and graphs that say the opposite of every thing you say and it has the names of 17,000 scientists if you care to look up any of their scientific studies on climate change or lack there of

http://www.oism.org...
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Tat, What is the source of your information? Who is making this claim? I want scientists names and links to their scientific studies so I can review them and compare them to other studies for that time period.
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
The temperatures in the 1800.

Generally those are the best evidence on the subject.
56 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 10 months ago
TUF
sadolitetootiefrutehTied
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Reasons for voting decision: LOL tatarize and labrat...
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 1 year ago
jm_notguilty
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Reasons for voting decision: Joining the party.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 1 year ago
Ore_Ele
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Reasons for voting decision: WTF Partum?
Vote Placed by PartamRuhem 1 year ago
PartamRuhem
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 1 year ago
RoyLatham
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Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited all rounds.
Vote Placed by thett3 1 year ago
thett3
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Reasons for voting decision: obama
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 1 year ago
BlackVoid
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Vote Placed by 16kadams 1 year ago
16kadams
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Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 1 year ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit and counter to a whole bunch of obvious votebombs.
Vote Placed by Greyparrot 1 year ago
Greyparrot
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Reasons for voting decision: Test vote