The Instigator
sadolite
Pro (for)
Winning
181 Points
The Contender
tootiefruteh
Con (against)
Losing
94 Points

Prove to me global warming is caused by man by proving the evidence I provided is flawed/incorrect

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Started: 3/6/2008 Category: Science
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,867 times Debate No: 3111
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (147)
Votes (56)

 

sadolite

Pro

I am going to submit evidence that global warming may not be caused by man and most if not all of that evidence will summarily be dismissed do to non scientific reasons such as it is junk science or it is bought and paid for by some oil company, it is political propaganda by deniers or the scientists who are submitting the evidence have some ax to grind or they don't meet some higher learning qualification. I seriously doubt any of it will be analyzed or even compared to any evidence for global warming being caused by man. More than likely I will be sent to links justifying the pro position and none of my evidence will be addressed. Instead the focus will be shifted from my evidence and an attempt will be made to shift the burden of proof on me and I will have to prove their position. This will not happen in this debate. The burden of proof is on the challenger to prove why my evidence is invalid "SCIENTIFICALY", not politically or in any other manner that is not scientific. The sources I use are irrelevant, if it can be proved wrong with a high degree of conclusiveness using comparative scientific data from other sources it should be very easy for you to do. I will not dismiss your sources as I approach any evidence or theories on this subject as valid until I can compare the data and see if it is consistent, biased or completely incorrect based on other available data from both sides of the argument. If you are not willing to except the terms of this debate don't accept the challenge. If you attempt to dismiss any of my sources based on anything other than scientific reasons I will immediately end the debate because it will become a complete waste of my time. I am on this site to be educated on the subject both pro and con based on the scientific evidence from both sides of the argument. I do not care if I win or lose this debate. I am almost positive but not completely positive that when this debate is over nothing will be proved to any conclusive degree that man is more likely than not to be the cause of global warming based on the evidence available from both sides.
Being able to determine an average global temperature must be accurate in order to determine if the average global temperature is warming or cooling. Researchers in this link say it is thermodynamically and mathematically impossible to put a single number on the average temperature of the earth. Furthermore there are several different ways to figure averages and depending on which method you use you will get completely different results. So from this data it is impossible to tell if the average global temperature is rising without being biased towards one method of determining average global temperature. And if you do use a method that is biased you have to leave out the fact that it is mathematically and thermodynamically impossible to figure an average global temperature even when you use that biased method.
http://www.sciencedaily.com...
I have searched for other sources and could find none that dispute this claim. Good luck to you in your searches. You will find lots of sites claiming average temps but from the data I have read they are more likely than not to be flawed and inaccurate representations if indeed it is impossible to figure an average global temp. What I ask for in this link is a similar link that says it is not impossible to figure average global temps using mathematics and thermodynamics and that those figures are more likely to be accurate than not. This should be very easy to prove in my opinion because a great deal of the evidence for the pro side is based on the theory that average global temps are rising.

(GCM's ) General Circulation Models: They attempt to simulate or predict future climate conditions. These have been proven to be completely inaccurate and flawed at predicting climate changes in the future because the data that is initially input to generate the simulation is based on guesses and assumptions on how the climate works and scientists all agree that they are not even close to knowing how it works with any degree of accuracy. It is further stated that GCM's are unsuitable and to inaccurate for the basis of setting public policy with regard to Global warming
http://www.heartland.org...
http://www.worldclimatereport.com...
http://www.globalwarming.org...
http://www.giss.nasa.gov...
There are hundreds of links that discuss GCM's and virtually all of them admit to guessing or using arbitrary numbers based on the limited knowledge that is available on how the earth's climate works. My research indicates that GCM's are virtually worthless indicators of future global conditions.
!7,000 Scientists disagree that Co2 is the main cause of global warming and that we are still recovering from a small ice age and have provided an extensive report as to why they think this is so based on all available data with regard to the earth's climate. This report is extremely detailed and just as convincing as the pro side. Why is everything in this report not valid when used as evidence that would suggest global warming is not caused by man?
http://www.oism.org...
I want to know the truth about this subject. But for every link that says global warming is caused by man I can find one that is equally scientific if not more based on science that it isn't.
I wish my opponent luck, this will be a very hard for you because the burden of proof is on you should you accept this debate. Don't take this debate if you are not going to use science to prove my links wrong and make no attempt to shift the burden of proof on me. You are trying to convince me that global warming is caused by man by man. If you can prove that the evidence that I have provided is flawed or incorrect with a reasonable degree of conclusiveness I will change my mind.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
sadolite

Pro

I don't need to make a rebuttal under the terms of this debate as none of my evidence was addressed. The burden of proof is not on me.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
sadolite

Pro

I don't need to make a rebuttal under the terms of this debate as none of my evidence was addressed. The burden of proof is not on me.
tootiefruteh

Con

tootiefruteh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
147 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 51 through 60 records.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Tat, What is your source that says it is possible to control the wheather
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
I'll answer that question, the answer is yes. This country has untapped oil reserves that are just waiting to be used. Unfortunately, people like you who think they know what's best for everyone and the environment make it cost prohibitive to find it and pump it out of the ground with endless over regulation. There has not been 1 single oil refinery built in the last 20 years to help keep up with demand because of endless over regulation. Life is full of risk that is something that you cannot comprehend. You think life should be risk free and that all energy sources should be pollution free. You are living in a dream world that will never exist. Instead you offer nothing in the way of replacing oil and sit and gripe about the rest of us who want to make and have a decent living and put ourselves above plants and animals. There is one source that doesn't pollute, nuclear, but I am sure you are against that to because of the waste bi-product and would be against burring it anywhere because it might pollute the ground. Hydrogen,ethenaol, and the like use up more energy producing it than it provides so it is worthless to even consider it as a fuel source. not to mention the infrastructure and cost of setting up hydrogen stations. You are so smart Rob, why don't you create a new fuel source and then you can complain about oil and the enviroment.
Posted by Rob1Billion 5 years ago
Rob1Billion
sadolite I was hoping you would answer the question I posed in both of my last 2 comments:
Do you believe that we can continue our behavior indefinitely, without worrying about our impact on the earth?
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
>>Tat, I think you are just as idiotic for believing that man can control the weather or if you prefer the climate.

There's no scientific restriction against doing exactly that. In fact, if we released a large amount of heat trapping gases we could heat up the entire planet. We could release CFCs and create a giant hole in the atmosphere over the poles. We could fish the oceans to a skeleton of their previous bounties and strip mine the mountains. We could do such things if a large subsection of humans were involved it would be downright trivial... in fact, it would take a lot to avoid.

>>Your last statement proves that you will not look at any study that would suggest you are wrong.

Go ahead. I've given you a wide opening. Present the proof that alteration of the climate is impossible.

>>It is pointless to discuss this topic with me because you have no interest in any other research that would suggest otherwise nor would would even consider comparing and acknowledging it.

You claim to reject global warming on two grounds, you don't like Al Gore and you firmly believe that all temperature readings are impossible (for crap sake you could just write down in a notebook "hot" or "cold" for the last ten years and spot the trend).

>>Save your breath Tat, I think you are idiotic and silly to. But those are comments that I expect from someone who doesn't want what they say challenged or disproved.

Silly too? You wound me sir. You wound up showing yourself to be the vulcanized tree extract to my polymerized adhesive. Touche! -- Everything about you screams open minded whereas I look at the non-evidence you provide and rudely scoff.

The political debate over global warming has been overly lacking to the point of being disturbing.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Tat, I think you are just as idiotic for believing that man can control the weather or if you prefer the climate. Your last statement proves that you will not look at any study that would suggest you are wrong. It is pointless to discuss this topic with me because you have no interest in any other research that would suggest otherwise nor would would even consider comparing and acknowledging it. Save your breath Tat, I think you are idiotic and silly to. But those are comments that I expect from someone who doesn't want what they say challenged or disproved. You are exactly like the politicians who promote the whole global warming, politically correct, it's a moral issue and you are not allowed to challenge it and if you do we will attack you personally. That is always your response to anything that pokes holes in your evidence.
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
>>Man cannot control the weather this is a proven fact agreed by all scientist.

No. That is categorically false. Nothing and nobody has ever proven any such "fact". We can seed clouds and could create our own wind if need be. However, it's not effective and would be prohibitively expensive. There's no law of physics or nature that is violated by such actions.

We aren't talking about the weather here, we're talking about the climate. In fact, there are some hush-hush talks about causing massive climate alterations the other way. It turns out it would be pretty easy to cause a quick cooling effect for only a few billion a year. Though, this is like trying to fight a fire with bombs.

>>Comparing god to climate research and using blind faith as your evidence for man causing global warming is by far the most absurd statement I have yet to hear on this subject.

What? I'm not sure what your point here is, but clearly as there is a massive amount of evidence for AGW, I'm not accepting it on blind faith.
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
I never said that the Earth was unable to cope with the CO2 or that that is the end of the world. I simply noted that the CO2 increase has been markedly stronger than rob suggested. They have been going up several PPM a year for many years now. CO2 traps heat and results in a hotter climate. This is both theoretical and observed.

I could no more disprove this than I could disprove gravity and the objections you've "raised" have been extremely silly to downright idiotic. I feel compelled to go where the evidence leads me, as such, I believe that man made global warming is a reality. Occams razor has nothing good to say about global scientific conspiracies of climate scientists seeking to propagate a hoax for the betterment of Al Gore. The underlying science however is quite solid and is the only theory which explains the warming trend we are witnessing here. Occam's razor is typically used to weigh different theories to explain the same data... here we have only one theory that aptly does that. It stands on its merits. And it certainly has merit.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Man cannot control the weather this is a proven fact agreed by all scientist. Comparing god to climate research and using blind faith as your evidence for man causing global warming is by far the most absurd statement I have yet to hear on this subject.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
So based on that you predict the end of the world and the earth has no way of compensating for it. If so what is your proof that the earth cant compensate for it. I know you hate these kind of questions Tat, but this is called the scientific method. You make statements and make predictions far into the future and have no way of proving ant of it. Any observations that have been made in the last 20 or 30 years are completely subjective and can be normal climate processes. Again Tat, you don't try to disprove your sources like a real non biased scientist would. You automatically dismiss anything and everything that would suggest otherwise because you don't want science and the scientific method involved in this subject. If you even bothered to check your sources as I have they are riddled with inconsistencies and pure speculation not to mention the margins of error that are openly admitted to. Occam's razor would suggest based on all of this that man is not causing global warming.
Posted by Tatarize 5 years ago
Tatarize
"Our air CO2 content has increased from 370 ppm to 385 ppm in the last twenty years (or so)"

Try three. It wasn't even above 300 in the last 100k years.
56 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 10 months ago
TUF
sadolitetootiefrutehTied
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Reasons for voting decision: LOL tatarize and labrat...
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 1 year ago
jm_notguilty
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Reasons for voting decision: Joining the party.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 1 year ago
Ore_Ele
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Reasons for voting decision: WTF Partum?
Vote Placed by PartamRuhem 1 year ago
PartamRuhem
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 1 year ago
RoyLatham
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Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited all rounds.
Vote Placed by thett3 1 year ago
thett3
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Reasons for voting decision: obama
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 1 year ago
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Vote Placed by 16kadams 1 year ago
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Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit and counter to a whole bunch of obvious votebombs.
Vote Placed by Greyparrot 1 year ago
Greyparrot
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Reasons for voting decision: Test vote