The Instigator
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The Contender
Con (against)

Proving the Baptist denomination to be teaching false doctrine, which makes them a man made church.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/12/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 171 times Debate No: 96084
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
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I will be proving that the Baptist denomination teaches false doctrine, and being nothing more than a man made church because of it. This is open to Baptist's only, as I feel that it should be someone of this particular denomination that could or should be able to better defend against me proving my proposition to be true, thus giving my opponent an equal stand in this debate, thank you, In Christian love.


Hello, thank you for beginning this debate. I am a Baptists and have been my whole life. I accept this challenge and I agree to debate with respect. If respect is not received, respect will not be given.
I believe the Baptist church does not have false teachings.
I am excited for this debate, and I am keen to hear what my opponent has to say. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1


Thank you my dear friend for accepting this debate. As stated above my contention is to show that the Baptist denomination is a man made church teaching false doctrine. My goal is simply to allow the scriptures , "God" to speak in this matter to prove my proposition.

To prove my proposition I will begin by showing the following through scripture.

1. The bible speaks of one church.

2. The bible shows one pattern of worship

3. The word denomination is contrary to scripture.

4.No authorization for the use of instruments in the New Testament pattern of worship.

5,Once saved always saved is a false doctrine.

6.No one is born in need of baptism for original sin.

7.Baptism is essential to one's salvation, which the Baptist deny.


1a.The bible speaks of one church.

Romans 16:16, 16Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

Matthew 16:18 says, 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build "my church"; and

the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. This proves that one church, being Jesus Christ's church in which he states

his church by saying " my church ", which is singular.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5-6King James Version (KJV)

1 Corinthians1:10-13, 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same
thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the
same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe,
that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; I and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


2. Matthew 28;20 KJV, 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo,
I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

1 Peter 2:21-22
"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his
steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." (KJV)

Ephesians 2:20-22 - And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief
corner [stone]; (Read More...)

John 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


3. Denomination - A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name,
tradition, and identity

The church is not a subgroup or a divided group. The church is one body, one faith, and there's only one way to be
added to the church.
4. Singing only is authorized in the New Testament, as no where will you find Jesus, the Apostles, or the early Christians
using instruments. My opponent may try to say where the bible is silent is the permission for the use of instruments,

We do find commands that were authorized by Jesus to sing only, as referenced by,
whereas by the pattern and the fact no authorization were given for the use of instruments, because why would there
be, if we have been given commands to sing only, which would show no need to God to state that instruments are not
allowed by his pattern and his commands to sing.

Ephesians 5:19King James Version (KJV)

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns
and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


5. Once saved always saved is a false doctrine according to scripture that clearly speak of one falling from grace to be
eternally lost as these scriptures below prove it.

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one
another daily, while it is called 'Today', lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." Hebrews 3:12-13

"Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? ..." Hebrews 2:1-3

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

All of these warnings would be meaningless if Christians could not fall away. Therefore, the very existence of these warnings proves that Christians can fall from grace. But, this point is made even clearer when we investigate examples of Christians who struggled against falling away, and some who actually did.

The most powerful example of a Christian struggling to remain faithful is the example of the apostle Paul. Considered by many to be one of the strongest and most active apostles, Paul not only felt the danger of becoming apostate, but he also wrote about it to help warn those who were over-confident:

"But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified." I Corinthians 9:27

If the apostle Paul had not achieved a state of permanent perseverance, then how can we expect to remove ourselves from the danger of becoming "disqualified"? Shortly after writing this statement, Paul warned the Corinthians with the statement, "Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall."

"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

"Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity." Acts 8:22-23

"... Having faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymaenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they "may" learn not to blaspheme." I Timothy 1:19-20

Ephesians 1:3-7). Therefore, one can and will forfeit salvation by practicing sin or by adopting false doctrines.

Proverbs 26:11 - As a dog returneth to his vomit, [so] a fool returneth to his folly.


6.Ezekiel 18:20King James Version (KJV)

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the
iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him.

Adam and Eve's sin were upon them only, although there punishment fell on all, because physical death had not
been used prior to Adam and Eve sinning.

7. Baptism is essential to one's salvation as these verses will prove that one must be baptized before there sins can be
washed away, making baptism essential to one's salvation in which the Baptist deny.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I ask my opponent to notice the conjunction, "and is " in Mark 16:16, which denotes that believe along
with baptism must be done in order for the word saved to be valid or active.

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I ask my opponent to notice when the remissions of one sins is forgiven, which is after being
baptized, thus making baptism essential.

Acts 22:16 - And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the

Acts 2:41 - Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism is for believers, meaning one who understands his need to change his life because of the way his life was being in direct opposition to God's will, and the desire to become Christ like, knowing the blessings one will receive for it. Baptism is for people of an age of " accountability " only, not for infants nor children.

I am confident I have proven my proposition, and wait for my opponent to prove otherwise.



My opponent has made some very good points, I will rebut them one by one to make my point clear.

1. The bible does not speak of only one church.
It kind of depends on what you mean by this point. The bible makes references to many churches, especially in revelations. Even most of the books in the new testament, are actually letters to churches. If you are talking about churches as a whole, when God says; "the church," He doesn't mean just one church, He's referencing to all churches because technically we are all connected and united under God.

2. The bible does not show one pattern of worship.
Actually, I have actually struggled a bit with my opponents point here. They say the bible only gives one way of worship, but there isn't much referencing to worship in and of itself in the verses.

There are many ways to worship.
Worshipping isn't just singing songs half-heartedly, it's praising and giving credit to the creator of all things.
Ways of worshipping God, or really anything in general, may include;
Filling your time with it. (Reading the bible, praying, spending time with God)
Thinking about it all of the time
Or even just obeying God's rules is a way of worshipping because it shows you respect Him and you will follow His commands.

3. The word denomination is not contrary to scripture.
The Baptist denomination operates under one name, God. We are one body, and we are one faith. We don't do anything opposing that

4. The bible references to instruments all the time.
In 1st Corinthians, He says; "...but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal..."
He also mentions people playing the harp and the flute. Nowhere does he say "Thou shalt not play musical instruments"
He doesn't say that directly or indirectly. Yes, He, (God) does say to lift up your voice. The voice can be used through an instrument because some people are mute. But it's also nice when people sing because they are using something to praise God with their natural abilities, not a piece of wood played with horse hairs. (A violin [But yes, those can be played too])

5. Once saved, always saved, is one of the most truthful things ever.
When someone accepts Jesus into their heart and becomes saved, there is no way that they get unsaved. Once Jesus is in you, He stays and can provide protection and intuition against sinful actions.
After you get saved, God still forgives you for your sins. If you sin after you've been saved, God doesn't say; "Oh well, they're toast. I don't even want to bother them anymore. Looks like they are going to hell."
In that case, if God turned His back on everybody, we'd have no salvation, and we'd all go to hell.
But God is forgiving. God is patient. God is kind. God is love.
He is so patient with open arms for people to come running back to him. He waits for people to ask for His forgiveness. God is a forgiving Father.
In the verses you referenced, all of those aren't pointing to people who are already saved, and He never directly says to people that they will go to hell for turning their backs on God. Instead, God was referencing to the unsaved. He was basically providing a warning in some verse contexts and in others, God was basically telling the sinners, (Who proclaimed to be saved) to buck up and get their hearts straight because if they are being bad examples, they are disobeying God and everyone around them won't be saved because they won't take the saved seriously.

I think for now, I have made a lot of my points. I am very quickly running out of time due to my business this weekend, so I will rebut my opponents' last two points in the next round.
To end, I will make my points;

I believe the Baptist denomination is not bearing a false doctrine.
They, (we) basically teach everything we know out of the bible. To criticize the Baptists, is to criticize the bible, and with that, God Himself. Baptists haven't added anything to the bible, we haven't taken anything away.
For example, the Mormons. Now, I love the Mormons, I love Lindsey Stirling, who is Mormon. However, the Mormons have added things to the bible that aren't completely accurate.
The Baptists have not done any of the sort.
We take the bible, and teach it to others the way we believe we have interpreted it. The Bible is a very confusing piece of literature so there are always going to be flaws in everyone's interpretation. However, we do our best to stay on the same track and in context of what the bible is trying to say when we teach it to others.

I believe everything I have said, and have done everything to be as respectful as possible. If I have done otherwise and come across as the opposite of respectful, please let me know and I will do my best to change it.

My sources;
My opponent and their sources
The bible (KJV and NIV)
My previous Baptist and bible teachings.

*Note to my opponent:
Many people claim to be Christians and claim to belong to a denomination when they haven't been to church in ages. For your information, I am not one of those people. I did say previously that I have been Baptist my whole life. But now I am adding on to that, I have gone to church almost every week for my whole life. (I only skip if I am sick or out of town) and I sometimes go to Sunday and Wednesday night services. I read my bible and study it every day. I am only letting you know so you don't doubt what I know about baptism. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2


My opponent states the bible doesn't speak of one church, therefore I will prove that it does by showing that all of the churches had everything in common, meaning everything one church did, the other did exactly the same. All churches throughout the New Testament were of one accord, unless my opponent can show that any churches mentioned in the New Testament taught a different doctrine than the one the Lord and the Apostles followed, than I will have proven my case that the church{s} all were of one doctrine.

{ My opponent used only one book as reference throughout her entire argument, and then she failed to give chapter and verse with it to acknowledge her proof.}

1. My opponent says the bible does not speak of one church.
2. My opponent says the bible does not show one pattern of worship.
3 .My opponent says there are many ways to worship.
4. My opponent states the word denomination isn't contrary to the scriptures.
5.My opponent states the bible references instruments all of the time.
6.My opponent states once saved always saved to be true.
7.My opponent states the bible is confusing.

[I ask my opponent to verify those verses she states were talking to sinners, verses the one's that were talking to Christians then.]

{ Since the first three of my opponents arguments that I will be proving to be one in the same, I therefore will discuss them together, such as the church, body and pattern of worship}.

1a. My opponent states that the bible does not speak of one church, as my opponent can clearly see that indeed the bible clearly speaks of one church by this verse alone, although I will provide many more verses to prove again that the bible does and cannot have but one way to worship, thus meaning one church.

1b. 1 Corinthians1:10-13, 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

(Ephesians 1:10,22-23 KJV)
(10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; {even} in him: (22) And hath put all {things} under his feet, and gave him {to be} the headover all {things} to the church, (23) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

(Matthew 16:15-18 KJV)
(15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? (16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed {it} unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build "my church"; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(Ephesians 2:20-22 KJV)
(20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner {stone}; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

(Colossians 2:10,19 KJV)
(10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

(Romans 12:4-5 KJV)
(4) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (5) So we, {being} many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:27

Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

Romans 12:4-5

For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

1 Corinthians 12:12

For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

Ephesians 4:4

There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 1:24

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

Colossians 1:18

He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Ephesians 1:22

And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

Ephesians 4:15-16

but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

1 Corinthians 12:25-26

so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Ephesians 5:29-30

for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body.

Colossians 3:15

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

1 Corinthians 12:12-31

For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. read more.

All of the churches in the bible worship one way, unless my opponent can prove otherwise.


4a. Denomination - A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.

We are not a subgroup or a divided group. The church is one body only, of one faith, and only one way to be added to that body.

If my opponent can prove the use of the word denomination from scripture to be a positive thing by book, chapter and verse, then I would love to see it, as the bible shows it to be a contrary word to the bible..


5a.My opponent states that the bible doesn't say " not to use instruments " therefore my opponent states it's permitted.

My opponent gave reference of a book in the New Testament, which she never gave chapter and verse, although I knew where it was, but this verse has absolutely nothing to do with worship, as it's stating how Paul feels about things not being done in harmony and in a decent manner.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3, Matthew Henry's Commentary " Verses 1"3 The gift of tongues: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal, 1 Cor. 13:1. Could a man speak all the languages on earth, and that with the greatest propriety, elegance, and fluency, could he talk like an angel, and yet be without charity, it would be all empty noise, mere unharmonious and useless sound, that would neither profit nor delight.

5b. I showed that where there's silence, one must accept silence, so I ask my opponent prove to me that one is permitted to speak when the bible is silent..

5c. I showed commands that Jesus authorized singing only, Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16, so I ask my opponent to prove that singing is allowed in the New Testament. Not one time did Jesus the Apostles, or the early Christians ever use instruments.

5d. I ask my opponent to explain why would there be a need for Jesus to say that instruments are not allowed when he gives commands for singing?


6. Since once saved always saved is of grave concern, I will respond on this in my final argument coming up.


7. My opponent quotes, "The Bible is a very confusing piece of literature" end of quote. I disagree, as the bible states the following.

1 Corinthians 14:33King James Version (KJV)

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (Read More...)


CONCLUSION; I wait my opponents reply.

Matthew Henry's Commentary, 1Corinthians 13:1-3
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by WFTL 6 days ago
Not a problem my dear friend, as we can start where we left off. I will repost it as soon as I can, In Christian love.
Posted by Jenae.ross 6 days ago
I apologize, I did not intentionally forfeit, the website messed up and I was not able to even access the debate. If you would like a rematch and begin where we left off, I would be more than happy to continue. Again, my greatest apologies.
Posted by WFTL 1 week ago
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to study the bible to see what they need to do to get there, that's like being lost and refusing to get directions.

Not any church will do, and neither just believing will do, so why not study the New Testament for yourself and find out instead of just assuming people like your parents, or that one precious aunt would intentionally guide you down the wrong path, because after all, they love you.

Yes, they may love you, but like you, they to might have "sincerly" been given the wrong information. So study, because your soul depends on it, because you can't get to heaven on just being sincere, as everyone is responsible for there own soul.
Posted by WFTL 1 week ago
People stand lost by not digging deep into studying God's word by using there muscle and a shovel, which refers to digging deep and using your brain. There happens to be a book called "Muscle and a Shovel", which can help you see exactly what I'm talking about.

It's about a young man who had just got married and was starting a new job, which gave him access to many different denominations, because his job required of him repairing certain machinery at various denominations, which gave him a chance to ask a variety of bible questions..

Through this, he also came to know an individual at work, who was able to prove each one of these denominations that this young man would ask a bible question to, to be incorrect every time by showing him the scriptures to prove it.

You can receive a free copy of this book by going on youtube, and going to "What's the bible say", which is a program that Johnny Robertson has had for many years, and his phone number will either be on the screen, and also he announces his number throughout the program, and I know he'll be glad to send you a copy of this wonderful soul saving book.
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