The Instigator
Jikpamu
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Psalm 137:9 - proof that the Bible is callous towards babies and indifferent on abortion?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Jikpamu
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,091 times Debate No: 56451
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

Jikpamu

Con

Does Psalm 137:9... [I am Pro-Life on Abortion btw]

Psalm 137:9 (New International Version 2011)
Ps 137:9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

...prove the Bible is callous towards babies and indifferent on abortion?

Explain what this passage is about and document your position. Don't just give opinion...
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

This passage was part of my daily devotional reading yesterday or the day before. It's really not that hard to understand.

Your question is about Psalm 137:9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

See All.... Verses 8 and 9 together state, "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

I assume that the problem is with God giving a blessing on those who dash little ones against stones. . God is not recommending the smashing of babies' heads. When they are happy to do it, that does not mean God is blessing it. Let me explain.

First, this verse is predictive and not prescriptive. That is, God is foretelling the future; He is not giving instructions on what He wants others to do. This is very important. Babylon had been exceedingly cruel to Israel as well as to other nations. In judgment, they would receive the cruelty they had given. However, the Israelites to whom this psalm is written were not the ones who would apply the judgment. That was left to the Medes and the Persians. God was not instructing them what to do; He was telling them what would happen.

Second, the man (presumably a soldier) who does this thing shall be happy. However, there is nothing to indicate that God encourages this particular action. Rather, He is predicting that those who are part of this slaughter will rejoice, will be happy in their actions, will be rewarded for their cruelty, etc. They will probably even go about bragging about their actions. Looking back historically, we know that Babylon's destruction came after a long siege which resulted in cruel actions by the victorious soldiers. Maddened soldiers often will behave cruelly after victory, and be happy in their cruelty.

Thanks to David Reagan for the bulk of this article which i totally agree with. I made slight changes.
Debate Round No. 1
Jikpamu

Con

Very good answer...here is mine from when I used to post on the Craigslist Religion Forum: (Excuse the CAPS as that is for clarity)

Is Psalm 137:9 a "Flip-Flop" on Abortion?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The psalm [137] is a hymn expressing the yearnings of the Jewish people in exile following the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem in 586 BCE. The rivers of Babylon [vs 1] are the Euphrates river, its tributaries, and the Tigris river (possibly the river Habor, the Chaboras, or modern Khabur, which joins the Euphrates at Circesium).

In its whole form, the psalm reflects the yearning for Jerusalem as well as hatred for the Holy City's enemies with sometimes violent imagery. Rabbinical sources attributed the poem to the prophet Jeremiah, and the Septuagint version of the psalm bears the superscription: "For David. By Jeremias, in the Captivity."

Psalm 137:9 (NIV 2011) - Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Jeremiah who also wrote Jeremiah and Lamentations had this to say during the Babylonian Seige in Jerusalem in the Book of Lamentations of which Psalm 137 reflects Babylon's Capturing of Jerusalem:

Lamentations 2:20 (NIV 2011) - "Look, LORD, and consider: Whom have you ever treated like this? SHOULD WOMEN EAT THEIR OFFSPRING, THE CHILDREN THEY HAVE CARED FOR? Should priest and prophet be killed in the sanctuary of the Lord?

Jikpamu: FRANKLY, the JEWS' DISLIKE AGAINST their BABYLONIAN CAPTORS expressed in Psalm 137:9 in regards to Lamentations 2:20 is UNDERSTANDABLE.

How would you feel if you had to EAT YOUR OWN CHILD? DON'T use Psalm 137:9 to say the Bible "flip-flops" on abortion. Read Psalm 139:13-16 if you have any doubts (2 chapters later).

We get the hymn: "Great is Thy Faithfulness" from...

Lamentations 3:22-23 (NIV 2011)
(22) Because of the LORD"s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail.
(23) They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

well I guess I took the wrong side in this debate. God's judgement was sure to fall on Babylon and those who would execute that judgement (I believe it was the Medes and the Persians who defeated the Babylonian Empire) would be equally cruel to the Babylonians as they had been when the conquered Israel. Those who would conquer Babylon would in happy madness after the battle dash the children of Babylon against stones giveing Bablylon what it had given to the nations it had conquered, extreme cruelty and anguish. The Bible is a wonderful historical book with many prophecies fullfilled as history was unfolded, and the fall of Babylon was one of these prophecies just as the fall of Israel to Babylon was prophesied. Sorry I could not take the Con position to make it a real debate. Maybe this will help people who are having difficulty understanding the Bible......and still are not totally closed minded to it.
Debate Round No. 2
Jikpamu

Con

Have a wonderful day brother : )
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

You too, I concede this debate to you as i am in full agreement with you and was the wrong person to be arguing the con postion here.......my mistake, I deserve to lose.
Debate Round No. 3
Jikpamu

Con

Jikpamu forfeited this round.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

I concede, I lose
Debate Round No. 4
Jikpamu

Con

Jikpamu forfeited this round.
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

Please award all points to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Some people are so full of hate that they can't think straight......so they don't know the difference between God's judgment againt a nation when if falls in battle to another nation and it's babies are destroyed by the conquerers............and abortion. One is God's judgment against a nation and the other is an individual's judgement agaisnt a baby, but some people hate God so much they can't see any reasoning in anything that referrs to God.

Keep on publishing the Word of God.......and Keep on prasing His Holy Name!

Give thanks at the remembrance of His holiness!

Jesus is coming back soon! He's coming to judge the living and the dead. Let the dead bury their dead, take up your cross and follow Jesus. God will settle all accounts, Praise the LORD!!!!
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
voting should favor my opponent
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
The Bible is never permissive or approving of abortion after the moment of concetption, and never permissive or condoning of homosexuality........the world is becoming more and more hateful againt the Bible and against those who believe it is God's Word.

God even punished one man (and probably many more for the same thing though unrecorded on paper) for stopping a baby from being conceived......God wanted that baby for a special purpose but the man stopped it before an abortion could have killed it........so God slew that man. God hates abortion. It's murder. The world in general hates God and His Word. Jesus said they would hate His followers the same as they hated Him. What a messed up world we are in. How long will God tolerate the evil? Jesus is coming back soon.
Posted by Jikpamu 2 years ago
Jikpamu
I agree Edd-C...Psalm 137:9 nothing to do with abortion
Posted by Edd-C 2 years ago
Edd-C
Psalms 137:9, in this case, is taken completely out of context. This has nothing to do with any biblical support of abortion ... all you need do is read the entire chapter to see this. It doesn't take a Bible scholar to understand the actual statement and its premise.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Manastacious 2 years ago
Manastacious
JikpamuLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: A priori voting obligation to vote down hate speech proliferated on DDO. See other debates that Lifemeansgodisgood has participated in to see evidence of this. In the mean time, all points awarded to jikpamu. In addition Pro conceded.
Vote Placed by Dishoungh 2 years ago
Dishoungh
JikpamuLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded. Wow, that was an easy vote.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
JikpamuLifeMeansGodIsGoodTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Undecided, both arguments were irrational, neither won in any regards.