The Instigator
acidman
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SalmanK
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Public schools should be banned

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/19/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,113 times Debate No: 39181
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

acidman

Pro

First off, I would like to describe the state of crisis that the youth of America are in today. That crisis is school. The place that no teen anywhere wants to go to. We all know it, yet we lie to ourselves, saying that our case is different, that the school we went to as teenagers wasn't as good as the school our children are going to, that politicians are going to keep their promise and fix the educational system once and for all. Why is school the unsettling place it is. 1) Discipline is to the extreme. Due to political correctness, the fear of being sued, and the media's account of school violence and how not enough is being done, almost anything can be perceived as a threat to school safety. Did you know that a 9th grader can get sent to the principal's office with the police because he brought a pin that was the size of his fingernail?? Not to mention the fact that the reason he brought it was because when he says "Hi, what's your name?" an 11th grade girl, she complained to her boyfriend and he intimidated the other boy with his friends, so the other boy took it out later in case he attacked him.Other examples of major trouble for minor reasons are cops being called to an elementary school when a girl kisses a boy,a girl getting threatened with suspension for wearing an NRA shirt,and cops being called because a boy ate part of his pop tart and it then looked like a gun. This discipline slows things down, and has a psychological effect on the students, especially when the paranoid staff get them in trouble for nothing. Not only is there no danger in any of the things that is perceived as "a safety hazard," but the real danger to the students is the schools themselves BECAUSE of the regulations. Although it is sometimes justified to crack down on youth crime due to the high levels of bullying (which I'll get to later), all the wrong measures are being taken and al the wrong measures are being taken, and the entire system is doomed to fail. 2) Teaching is inefficient to the extreme. Put 20 students in a classroom, all with different learning styles, different personalities, different type of experience that particular day, assign them work to do that was preplanned and not made based on any desire of the student to learn, or any other conditions, you call that learning? That is turning kids into robots, and then blaming them when they don't sit still and compute rather than create. 3) School is dangerous. As shown by the tragic death of Rebecca Ann Sedwick, kids can be monsters, and dangerous ones at that. Do you know what Rebecca's bully said after she committed suicide? Its this: I don't give a f***. And because of all the lobbying from multiple directions, outdated information, and complete and utter fear of the schools to do anything and stand up to the aggressive parents, the bullies are never charged. Lastly, the problem cannot be solved by SOME students going to other school, because parents are simply too biased and thus against it...
SalmanK

Con

To start off, I'll just assume, for the sake of the debate, that you want to ban public school to get rid of the problems that occur within it. Sounds like a nice plan, until you realize the consequences.

First of all, education is extremely important. It is flawed, but that doesn't mean that we need to ban it completely. Children need to learn so that they can become functioning members of society. Just take a look at poor countries, like the DRC or Sudan, where the majority of the children aren't being educated. The economy is poor because of a lack of skilled and educated workers, violence is everywhere, and kids are reduced to doing menial jobs in substandard living conditions, since they can't get educated to get a better job/life. A lack of education may not be the only thing that destroys societes and reduces them to poor conditions, but it plays a large part in it.

For your second argument, I agree with you when you say that education is flawed. You are right when you say that education turns kids into robots, and blames them when they can't sit still and compute. I went through this as well, and I ended up hating school. I can't deny that it did give me some important life skills, however. Like simple mathematics, or grammar, or learning how the world works. For the first seven or so years of a child's education, I believe that the child learns as much as he needs to know in the real world. I think that the schooling years after that are worthless unless a child has a passion for the subjects he or she learns there. But still, are those valid reasons for banning public school? No! I think that the modern school system should be heavily reformed to meet the needs of both the students and society. Watch some videos by Sir Ken Robinson to get an idea about where I'm coming from.

For your last one, I think that your proposed solution has to many problems to work efficiently. Bullying happens outside of school, too. In the streets, in the workplaces (for adults), etc. We can't ban these places just because bullying could happen there, should we? Instead, we should work on fostering kindness and friendship between students at an early age. We could also increase funding for psychological help for both potential victims and potential bullies. That way, we can end the problem before it starts.
Debate Round No. 1
acidman

Pro

You say that other countries such as the DRC have horrible poverty due to a lack of education, however, I did not advocate having the children of America getting as little education as them, or no education like them. I simply said that the public school system should be replaced with homeschooling and "non-coercive schools" which, by he way, have already been tried and worked successfully. Furthermore, you say that the first seven years of a child's education are the most important, and I agree. However, you fail to take into account that the discipline, bullying, and coercive schooling exist in those seven years as well, albeit perhaps the coercion won't matter as much. But you still have kids (such as Derrick Jensen, an anarcho-primitivist environmentalist, as a child) say that they love learning, yet hate school. In addition, you say that educational reform is needed, yet that is what parents and politicians and teachers have said to the point that it has become clich"d, billions of dollars have been pumped into the system, and a large portion of our time has been spent trying to fix it, yet the end result is the same, leading us to doubt that there is any hope left. That is because the entire foundation is flawed. Lastly, you claim that with enough pushing of the students towards kindness, they will be kind to each other, however, it is not this simple. The vast, vast-majority of the time spent in school is spent doing work, and I repeat, work. Not character-building activities, not group therapy, not even getting to talk to the school counselor, which by the way, you can't do in High School for emotions. The entire theme of school is succeeding on your work by memorizing knowledge, and school is also a very impersonal place. it is not family, but like work for students, and your private life will most likely stay in your private place, which is home, or your friend's home.
SalmanK

Con

You say that reform would be worthless in America since it's already taking place, and nothing is changing. That's why I mentioned Ken Robinson in my first round. He has the same opinion that I do; that we're spending too much money on reforming only superficial aspects of the modern education system when we really need to reform the education system from it's core. It's also true that people love learning, but not school. People like learning because it satisfies the natural human instinct of curiosity, but they hate school since school basically removes all the fun and interesting things about learning, so that the subjects being taught end up being unsatisfying. Again; we need to reform the entire education system at it's core. We shouldn't only change the superficial things like replacing textbooks with technology or bringing in guest speakers to promote the current education system.

I belive that, if the money spent on education actually goes to reforming education at it's core, non-coercive schooling would be useless since kids would actually want to go to school. Homeschooling would lose it's appeal due to this as well, although it would still be used by people who need it. (Disabled kids and special needs kids in certain circumstances.)

As for the bullying aspect, I will repeat myself again: Reform. Reforming education at its core would make it more personal and enjoyable for the students, so that there would be more room for emotional development. As for your point about the fact that students don't get much psychological help in school, I say that there is a massive amount of online, phone and personal counselling available outside of school. All we need to do is to make it more well-known amongst students.
Debate Round No. 2
acidman

Pro

You say that education can be saved with Ken Robinson's planned method of schooling, but I say this is false, because they are impossible to implement. First off, public schools are run by the government. Which means the government sets standards and rules for how the schools are to succeed, and if the schools do not obey their funding is cut. The effect this has is that when change happens, and it happens often, schools can not change themselves on time to adjust, in a manner similar to communism or socialism (and we ALL are well aware of why state communism/socialism does not work). That is why private schools work so well, because they have many teachers and few students, and few parents, and have a more close communication between parents and teachers, and thus can make changes openly when necessary. Second, because schools have so many students and so many needs to fulfill since they are not a niche but a mainstream, enormous average for an average community (and ghettoes), schools are forced to enforce conformity so that everyone can do the same assignments, and if this does not happen, everything falls apart. Because again, the entire foundation is flawed.
SalmanK

Con

"You say that education can be saved with Ken Robinson's planned method of schooling, but I say this is false, because they are impossible to implement."

Not necessarily. Ken Robinson's idea of a more personalized, artistic educational approach has worked in several schools around the globe, such as the Sudbury-type schools.

"First off, public schools are run by the government. Which means the government sets standards and rules for how the schools are to succeed, and if the schools do not obey their funding is cut. The effect this has is that when change happens, and it happens often, schools can not change themselves on time to adjust."

I never said that all the reform must happen quickly. I know that large organizations, such as schools, do not react well to sudden change. I think that the educational system must be reformed gradually. That way, we could see which aspects work best, and see what we need to improve.

"Second, because schools have so many students and so many needs to fulfill since they are not a niche but a mainstream, enormous average for an average community (and ghettoes), schools are forced to enforce conformity so that everyone can do the same assignments, and if this does not happen, everything falls apart. Because again, the entire foundation is flawed."

The answer to this seems extremely simple; build more schools. In the U.S.A, there are a lot of students but not enough schools. With appropriate government funding, perhaps we could build more school so that there would be a lot less pressure for the schools to enforce conformity.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Quatermass 3 years ago
Quatermass
I don't think it's a case of banning public schools. What I believe instead is that there should be a single, unified education system that is equal or better than the standards of public school education and allows everyone the same start in life.
Posted by Ignopius 3 years ago
Ignopius
If I had enough debate rounds under my belt. I would vote con. A lot of the pros problems with education are problems within the system and not problems within the idea of public education itself.
Posted by germanlaw 3 years ago
germanlaw
wow you guys are going nuts for this!
Posted by germanlaw 3 years ago
germanlaw
wow you guys are going nuts for this!
Posted by germanlaw 3 years ago
germanlaw
wow you guys are going nuts for this!
No votes have been placed for this debate.