The Instigator
Mangani
Pro (for)
Winning
41 Points
The Contender
aaltobartok
Con (against)
Losing
39 Points

Puerto Rico should be Independent

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/26/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 10,315 times Debate No: 2939
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (17)

 

Mangani

Pro

For over one hundred years now Puerto Rico has been in political limbo. It is time Americans recognize the mutual benefit of allowing Puerto Rico to become an independent nation. Statehood advocates argue that we will be entitled to more help (dependence) as a state... Status Qup advocates deny their own history- the founder of the PPD, Luis Munoz Marin, was a Nationalist and the son of Luis Munoz Rivera, a staunch Nationalist as well.

There is a process in place in the US legal system for decolonization, and it would greatly benefit both nations. Please, present your arguments, and I am sure we will have a lively debate...
aaltobartok

Con

I certainly agree with you that Puerto Rico should not continue in its current shameful "territory" system which is only taxation without representation. I will argue that Puerto Rico's best economic interests are to achieve statehood and not to become independent.

1. The US has a tremendous amount of economic investment in Puerto Rico that directly benefits the people.
The USA is the largest investor in Puerto Rico. This means economic investments in tourism, industry, and agriculture. Going independent would make it more difficult for these companies to continue to invest and employ in Puerto Rico.

2. The US provides an enormous amount of money to Puerto Rico and would provide more if it were a state.
If Puerto Rico were a state, the US would continue to direct and give significant amounts of aid to its educational and legal systems and thus would pay for those educational and legal systems in entirety. This would likely be more than the tax base of Puerto Rico, thus Puerto Rico would get world-class educational and legal systems at a fraction of their cost.

3. How would Puerto Rican independence help the USA?
Debate Round No. 1
Mangani

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate, though I think I am at an advantage as I can anticipate your every response given that I've had this debate millions of times with actual members of the PNP, the party that supports statehood. I will be brief with my responses as I can tell from your argument that you are not adamant and may just be misinformed.

"1. The US has a tremendous amount of economic investment in Puerto Rico that directly benefits the people."

-Please give examples, and how independence would adversely effect that economic investment.

"Going independent would make it more difficult for these companies to continue to invest and employ in Puerto Rico."

-Independence, as in the past, could provide tax shelters for these companies. That's why most of them are there in the first place. The tax shelter laws were repealed to some extent ten years ago, but some of the companies which benefitted weren't affected by the repealing of the laws and have maintained their tax free (or shelter) status. How would independence adversely affect US companies rather than benefit??? That's like saying GE would do better having their call centers in Florida rather than India. If taxed the US gets the money and Puerto Rico is less attractive to companies. If not taxed Puerto Rico will benefit with jobs. If taxed at a lower rate- an option under independence- Puerto Rico benefits in many ways, and the nation would still be attractive to present and future companies.

"2. The US provides an enormous amount of money to Puerto Rico and would provide more if it were a state."

-This is the most popular argument of Statehooders. As an independent nation, Puerto Rico would better benefit from even LESS subsidy which also benefits the US. The US would be required by US and International laws to maintain specific levels of subsidy for a ten year transitional period into independence. That would give us enough time to build our own economy, establish our own trade laws, and not need more money from the US. Right now I can't get welfare because I get paid too much... should I quit my job so I can get help from the government?

"If Puerto Rico were a state, the US would continue to direct and give significant amounts of aid to its educational and legal systems and thus would pay for those educational and legal systems in entirety."

-The US currently subsidizes both systems, which are corrupt and failing. Local elementary schools are turning to community subsidy. I don't really think I have to get into it, but the AMERICAN educational system is failing, and that's where you want us to tap our funds from? There are much better, and much more feasible options... like independence.

"This would likely be more than the tax base of Puerto Rico, thus Puerto Rico would get world-class educational and legal systems at a fraction of their cost."

-Puerto Rico's educational system is part of the US Deparment of Education. We have Universities, colleges, trade schools, private colleges and schools, etc. We HAVE a world-class educational system, we just don't have the right to govern it in it's entirety.

"3. How would Puerto Rican independence help the USA?"

-Help and benefit are not mutually interchangeable. I believe I said "benefit". The US would save billions of dollars per year if it granted Puerto Rico it's independence. As a state, Puerto Rico- which has a strong 4% voter turnout from Nationalists REGULARLY, which is much higher when you take into consideration the total population (see reaction to FBI murder of Filiberto Ojeda Rios, the reception of 12 FALN members granted clemency under Clinton, and official Nationalistic Puerto Rican holidays)- would be a threat to the US and it's "war on Terrorism". In it's current status as a territory, it has been beneficial for nationalists to continue with legal and political battles, but if statehood were imposed on us there is no telling what kind of nationalistic reaction may materialize.

US companies would benefit with tax shelters, which I already mentioned. There is a great pool of engineers in Puerto Rico who are always hired for companies outside of Puerto Rico- dozens at a time. As an independent nation we can bring those companies to us, rather than sending them our best minds.
aaltobartok

Con

aaltobartok forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Mangani

Pro

What happend?

Puerto Rico should be independent because every country is entitled to gubernatorial and national sovereignty.

Puerto Rico should be independent because the US did not legally aquire Puerto Rico which was a sovereign province of Spain since 1897 at the time of the US invasion. Puerto Ricans aided the Americans during the Spanish American War with the expectation that the US would grant Puerto Rico national sovereignty- they only granted Cuba national sovereignty and imposed various forms of governments on the various other territories aquired under the Treaty of Paris.

Puerto Rico should be independent because historically the people have wanted it.

I could go on, but I don't know if you'll continue this debate...
aaltobartok

Con

I concede. Arguing "devil's advocate" is too hard when it makes no sense at all. Let's just keep forfeiting until it goes into voting.
Debate Round No. 3
Mangani

Pro

Ok... now I have to worry about how many characters it takes to say ok... because I guess that wasn't enough.
aaltobartok

Con

aaltobartok forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
Conduct: Pro
- Pro was very courteous. Additionally, Con forefeited two rounds. Con Conceded.

Spelling/grammar: Pro
- No major mistakes on either side. Con conceded.

Convincing arguments: Pro
- I have to congratulate Pro on a very well laid out argument with very well thought out points. I actually learned quite a bit from this debate, and will likely investigate this issue further because it is interesting. Also, Con conceded.

Sources: Pro
- Pro provided one source, Con provided none. Also, Con conceded.

Note: Although Pro had very well laid out arguments, and they were quite interesting, I would suggest using more sources in the future to back up your points. I do understand that Con conceded, so Pro may not have had the opportunity to use any and my suggestion may be useless.
17 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
ManganiaaltobartokTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Round two clearly was a stronger argument for Pro, and of course forfeit from Con.
Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
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Vote Placed by BellumQuodPacis 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Xer 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Mangani 8 years ago
Mangani
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Vote Placed by RZA444 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Trismegistos 8 years ago
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